Is "touch starvation" a real thing?

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Well that settles it. Just a misfortune of this era, especially since the "social distancing", which is rather a horrible social experiment.

Interesting how quickly you latched on to the first comment that seemed to support your predetermined conclusion and therefore pronounced the debate "settled" 🧐. You are forgetting that Jesus also allowed the woman to wash his feet with her tears and hair. I'd imagine it was a comfort to Him.

I want to believe that you are here for good-faith debate, but sometimes you make it hard.
 
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I am not out to judge him. I am just genuinely concerned for anyone who can easily dismiss Christ's resurrection from the dead because without it, we are all doomed.​

Hi passionb4, welcome to the site!

To be fair to @Lovette, I haven't seen him deny or dismiss Christ's resurrection. Best I can tell, he adheres to a kind of stoic/Christian fusion, it's not straight-up stoicism but rather an assertion that any and all human desires are caused by a lack of spirituality. It's common among Christian fundamentalist groups and is usually preached by emotionally constipated men with very subservient wives who tend to all their basic needs. The general premise is: wants/desires/negative emotions = sin. So if you just get close enough to God you won't have any. Therefore, children of adherents tend to suppress those things rather than allowing themselves to feel them.

The reality is that God gives us victory over our wants /desires /negative emotions, we still experience those things but they do not have to rule us. This gives credit to God, where it belongs.

My biggest issue with @Lovette is that he sees basic human desires as only for the weak (or "lonely losers").

The reality is that we all have basic wants and desires, it's the default setting for being human.....BUT GOD can overcome for us.
 
It's common among Christian fundamentalist groups and is usually preached by emotionally constipated men with very subservient wives who tend to all their basic needs.
The bold-faced part made me laugh. I have never heard it described that way before, but I suddenly feel like a laxative salesman. :giggle:

The "very subservient wives" part kind of describes my own brief experiences with Stoicism. About 7 months ago, I reached a point where I could no longer deny something I had noticed about women based on my own interactions with them over the years. Out of genuine curiosity, I searched on YouTube to see if anyone else had the same observation, and I came across a whole bunch of videos on the topic. Many of them were made by Stoics. I was familiar with the term because I knew they were mentioned in the Bible, but I honestly did not know anything about their beliefs prior to that time. I wound up watching about 20 different videos posted by people who adhered to Stoicism over about a two week span of time, but I ultimately concluded that they used a sort of mental manipulation in regard to their interactions with women. In my own heart and mind, there was no way that I could reconcile their practices with the mind of Christ or what is taught in scripture, so I stopped watching any of their videos.

As far as Lovette is concerned, I genuinely have no desire to judge him. I do know though that his Logos and the Logos described in the Bible are not the same thing, and that is but one reason why I am deeply concerned for him.​
 
Sort of like a Twitter echo-chamber? IDK

If you wanna find out something, like some other poster said, why not just google. lol

I don't think many of the singles on here are touch deprived or starved.

If you are widowed or divorced, maybe you do miss the times you spent with your spouse. Nothing wrong with that. Your children are grown up or out of reach. They not close anymore. That's also sad. These are the people that belong or used to belong to you.

If you in quarantine, or in prison, or in a lab for sure. You aren't allowed to touch anyone in there!!

If you just single and desire someone to be your mate, thats not being touch deprived or starved, that's just a natural human desire to be close to someone. Touch can be incredibly healing. As we Christians already know. Or it can make you laugh. I'm ticklish too.

If you are apart from your spouse, and you are praying and fasting for a time, sure, but you have to come back together at some point, you can't just abandon them when they need you to hold them, just like you can't abandon a baby.
 
As you probably already know, it's called "confirmation bias."
The correct answer is the one that always agrees with me. Even when I change my mind. Right....

But then he just comes back for more. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways...

If you want someone to answer correctly, you'd make a poll, with four choices, and only one would be the correct answer, and you'd be like CC's quizmaster.
There would be a correct answer, one that's plausible, one that's totally false, and one that you made up yourself.

Nobody can answer 'I don't know' or 'What was the question again?' Or 'I'mma just gonna post some statistics off X as my answer'
 
The correct answer is the one that always agrees with me. Even when I change my mind. Right....

But then he just comes back for more. A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways...

If you want someone to answer correctly, you'd make a poll, with four choices, and only one would be the correct answer, and you'd be like CC's quizmaster.
There would be a correct answer, one that's plausible, one that's totally false, and one that you made up yourself.

Nobody can answer 'I don't know' or 'What was the question again?' Or 'I'mma just gonna post some statistics off X as my answer'
The correct answer or answers ultimately need to be found in God's word. Personally, I believe that the Bible advocates both touch and separation. The separation part, from what I see, usually is the result of total devotion or consecration to God. Sometimes the separation is willful, and other times it is the consequence of severe persecution or rejection.​
 
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Don't play dumb, and please don't count me as a fool. In Stoicism, inner peace is allegedly attained through the self-discipline of men. In Christianity, inner peace is granted to us through Christ as a fruit of the Spirit. John 14:27, Galatians 5:22. Also, you should already know that Paul, while referring to Greek philosophers, contrasted the wisdom of this world, which is foolishness with God, with the mind of Christ when he wrote to the saints at Corinth. 1 Corinthians 2:6, 16; 3:19. The two are at odds with each other, and not compatible.
Self-discipline is self-discipline, inner peace is inner peace, since you acknowledge them as fruits of the spirit, how could they be at odds with Christianity? If God can use stoicism to help you achieve it, who are you to condemn it as pagan philosophy? The problem is never the philosophies themselves, but idolatries of them, and exalting yourselves as smart and enlightened, high above the "unwashed masses". That hubris is foolishness with God, not the pursuit of self discipline, inner peace or resilience.
That alone should deter you or anybody else from adhering to Stoic beliefs. While speaking to the Stoics, Paul told them that God commanded them to repent because he has appointed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness through Jesus Christ. Acts 17:30-31. Stoicism does not preach righteousness through faith in Christ, and it scoffs at the concept of bodily resurrection, so why do you adhere to it, and how will you stand on the day of Christ's judgment?

For those who might not know what Stoicism is, this short video will point out some of the major contrasts between it and biblical Christianity.
What deters me is your labelling and closed mind. If you listen to this video, you'd learn that the problem in stoicism is not its error, but its deficiency. In other words, not about what it's gotten wrong, but what it lacks. According to this video, it even states that it has nothing against Stoicism, it just points out what you can never achieve through mental fortitude and other stoic virtues, and that's where Christianity fits in. If scoffing at the concept of bodily resurrection is the charge, then I'm afraid any denominations that preaches ascension of the soul to heaven or bodily rapture to heaven are what's really at odds with Christianity, for they have essentially denied bodily resurrection on earth with their alternatives, do you adhere to those?
 
A leper had to call out "unclean" whenever he passed by anyone. This is to prevent anyone being infected from his disease by touching him.


Jesus touched the leper and he was made clean. This went against the earthly order of how leprosy worked. Jesus did not fear any infection. In fact, He had all intention to take it along with all other human infirmities upon Himself and take them to His grave. So, if you are in Him, how much less should you 'avoid' touching anyone?

Are the 'things above' only applicable heaven or in the world to come? Or is the kingdom of heaven, indeed, now within your midst?
Pfft, friend, lecture me with this next time after you scrub the toilet, mop the floor and wipe the kitchen counter, speaking of "unclean" things. I've done all those yesterday. How much less should I 'avoid' touching anyone? As much as I've not a medical degree, not qualified to treat anyone.
 
What deters me is your labelling and closed mind.
My mind is only closed to that which opposes the mind of Christ, and Stoicism does precisely that in many ways. I cannot elaborate further now because I need to leave for a business trip in a few minutes.​
 
A stoic answer to everything

A. Pffft
B. Whatever
C. It's in the Bible!
D. yeah right
 
Self-discipline is self-discipline, inner peace is inner peace, since you acknowledge them as fruits of the spirit, how could they be at odds with Christianity? If God can use stoicism to help you achieve it, who are you to condemn it as pagan philosophy? The problem is never the philosophies themselves, but idolatries of them, and exalting yourselves as smart and enlightened, high above the "unwashed masses". That hubris is foolishness with God, not the pursuit of self discipline, inner peace or resilience.

What deters me is your labelling and closed mind. If you listen to this video, you'd learn that the problem in stoicism is not its error, but its deficiency. In other words, not about what it's gotten wrong, but what it lacks. According to this video, it even states that it has nothing against Stoicism, it just points out what you can never achieve through mental fortitude and other stoic virtues, and that's where Christianity fits in. If scoffing at the concept of bodily resurrection is the charge, then I'm afraid any denominations that preaches ascension of the soul to heaven or bodily rapture to heaven are what's really at odds with Christianity, for they have essentially denied bodily resurrection on earth with their alternatives, do you adhere to those?
This right here. This is the most discouraging part of this entire thread. You keep seeing disagreement as a personal attack that needs a defense.

And of course you never, ever, EVER, even for a second, think that someone who disagrees with you might be right.

You will keep hitting conversational and relationship brick walls until you fix this.
 
OK. Well, I'm really sorry you went through that and also sorry for the ways it is still affecting you. I don't like victimhood culture either, but acknowledging abuse to seek healing is very different from wallowing in it.
Whatever I went through, Christ has washes it all away, it no longer affects me. "A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. "
What caused this fear of sharing emotions, if I may ask? Like, when you hide your emotions, whose voice do you hear playing in your head? Parents, friends, teachers, bosses? Regardless of your answer, tracing it back to the root will help you gain victory over it.
Not fear, but inability, or at least inhibition. I don't even have the words in my native language to describe and articulate any emotions, let alone sharing them. And there's nobody to share anyway.
 
This right here. This is the most discouraging part of this entire thread. You keep seeing disagreement as a personal attack that needs a defense.

And of course you never, ever, EVER, even for a second, think that someone who disagrees with you might be right.

You will keep hitting conversational and relationship brick walls until you fix this.
The merits of stoicism are debatable, I have no qualm with anybody what disagrees with it. But what I can tell you is, I never, ever, EVER, even for a second, think who gets triggered by one name, term or one label that doesn't fit their narrative and/or preferred terminology is right, that's the real discouraging part and challenge. I can't fix anybody's squeamishness and sensitivity over the mere sight of certain words that somehow make them squeamish.
 
The merits of stoicism are debatable, I have no qualm with anybody what disagrees with it. But what I can tell you is, I never, ever, EVER, even for a second, think who gets triggered by one name, term or one label that doesn't fit their narrative and/or preferred terminology is right, that's the real discouraging part and challenge. I can't fix anybody's squeamishness and sensitivity over the mere sight of certain words that somehow make them squeamish.
Heh. Lemme know how that works out for you next time someone wants to discuss Communism, Fascism or why Hitler was such a misunderstood genius. :p


Hey, where ya going? Gee, I never thought someone would get so triggered by one name, term or label...
 
My mind is only closed to that which opposes the mind of Christ, and Stoicism does precisely that in many ways. I cannot elaborate further now because I need to leave for a business trip in a few minutes.​
Good luck, safe journey, and God bless. You cannot elaborate because you've probably never listened to that video you posted, the repetitive formular in it is, "stoicism can ... but can not ...". For the record, I've never openly praised or exalted Stoicism, I pointed out its deficiency in the first post I mentioned it, it is you who's got triggered.
 
Heh. Lemme know how that works out for you next time someone wants to discuss Communism, Fascism or why Hitler was such a misunderstood genius. :p


Hey, where ya going? Gee, I never thought someone would get so triggered by one name, term or label...
How about no such "next time"? Hasn't the Lord taught us to not cast pearl to swines? If you wrestle with swines, you'll get dirty, and the swine will enjoy it. The most brilliant battle tactics is to know yourself, know your enemy, and avoid unnecessary battles in the first places, such as the hypothetical scenarios you proposed.
 
And as I constantly reiterated on the Singles forum, it's ok to be single. It's also ok to yearn for a partner or someone or something to hold, to give us comfort. We are all called for different things, and some of us need to guard our hearts more than most. Being single does not mean you have to be a hermit, unless you want to be.
Yeah, keep in mind that in late Roman Empire and early Medieval time, singleness was preferred, as a sign of devotion, keeping yourself as a chaste virgin for Christ; marriage was a compromise under worldly pressure, it'd been viewed as a worldly affair; only did marriage become a holy sacrament since the fourth Laterean council in the early 13th century, and only did it become an idol in the 1970s, as the church's countermeasure against the sexual liberation movement; ever since the proliferation of social media, it's gone further, now a political statement against leftism.