Is "touch starvation" a real thing?

[Snackersmom]

Ignorant and arrogant? Snackersmom?

You have DEFINITELY not been paying attention! Neither of those fits her at all.

Thanks Lynx, I appreciate that! I'm only ignorant about what I don't know . Definitely not offended by what he said, it's just par for the Lovette course and I'm rather stoic on such matters anyway .

 

[Snackersmom]

you assume "language barrier" as a diversion tactic. As long as you hold that attitude, it's not gonna be a mature debate.

I mentioned language barrier because it seemed the kindest explanation for your bizarre responses to posts in this thread. In post #230 I stated that I largely agreed with you, with the caveat that we should be careful with looking outside The Bible for major life philosophies. You responded by quoting me, and a tirade that had very little to do with what I actually said, and completely dismissed our common ground on the subject. Later you informed us that your tirade was only directed at Bible idolaters and Cessationists. The problem being that I am neither, and nobody even vaguely mentioned cessationism (not even you, until you later clarified for Lynx.)

Do you get why it's hard to have a discussion with you? Like, seriously dude, you are pricklier than a porcupine with PMS.

If you had been paying attention, you would know that I think there is a lot of overlap with stoic philosophy and Biblical concepts; self-control, denial of self, contentment despite difficult life circumstances..... all that is in the Bible and very important. You claim you want to discuss those virtues, but every time I bring them up you completely ignore it and start arguing against some belief I did not state and do not hold to. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and suggested language barrier as a possible cause, but since that upset you I will just have to take you at your stated word.... that you are inventing strawmen and sarcastically throwing them about. Strawmen are one of the most primitive forms of debate; if you are resorting to those then there really is no debate. So I'll have to pass on that.

And for the record, since you will surely respond that I am triggered by stoicism and turning it into a strawman, let me just state that THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCEPTS IN STOIC PHILOSOPHY THAT LINE UP WITH HOW THE BIBLE TELLS US TO BECOME, THROUGH THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. I BELIEVE IN THOSE CONCEPTS AND TRY TO HOLD TO THEM IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

Anyways, I doubt this thread will be worth any further use of my time, but I wish you well.

 

[Lanolin]

I didn't know that Lovette basically just wanted to start a thread and make it so everyone could argue with him. Even if you wrote something he agreed with, which an ordinary OP might then say 'thanks for answering my question' its more like 'I want people to debate me, and I'll make a rebuttal for each and every post cos its fun to contradict everyone with my own reasoning. And if someone tries to reason with me, I'd tell them they're unreasonable for reasoning with me'


???

So in other words, just make something up.

Teachers used to say this, if you think you know the answer, raise your hand, and I'll tell you if you are right or not.
But if you're not a teacher, you'd just ask a question that you don't know the answer to, to see if anyone else answers, so you can copy them if they are right.
But when the teacher says 'there's no right or wrong answer' everyone is kind of confused, until they realise it's not about being right or wrong it's just there can be many answers to a question.

Like you could say 'Well, I watched Touched by an Angel' on tv but I don't know if it's real. What do you think?'
Or you could say, well this author of this book thinks it's real. Maybe read the book.



Or you could answer the question with another question. 'Was social distancing real? Why did we have to keep 2 metres apart? Was covid actually real? Weren't people just dying of colds? Why do we have to wash our hands?'

I mean how long is a piece of string? How many days quarantine did you have? Have you been lived on this planet in the last couple of years or do you live in a bubble or something.

This could go on forever......

 

[Lovette]

I didn't know that Lovette basically just wanted to start a thread and make it so everyone could argue with him. Even if you wrote something he agreed with, which an ordinary OP might then say 'thanks for answering my question' its more like 'I want people to debate me, and I'll make a rebuttal for each and every post cos its fun to contradict everyone with my own reasoning. And if someone tries to reason with me, I'd tell them they're unreasonable for reasoning with me'


???

So in other words, just make something up.

Teachers used to say this, if you think you know the answer, raise your hand, and I'll tell you if you are right or not.
But if you're not a teacher, you'd just ask a question that you don't know the answer to, to see if anyone else answers, so you can copy them if they are right.
But when the teacher says 'there's no right or wrong answer' everyone is kind of confused, until they realise it's not about being right or wrong it's just there can be many answers to a question.

Like you could say 'Well, I watched Touched by an Angel' on tv but I don't know if it's real. What do you think?'
Or you could say, well this author of this book thinks it's real. Maybe read the book.

View attachment 289803

Or you could answer the question with another question. 'Was social distancing real? Why did we have to keep 2 metres apart? Was covid actually real? Weren't people just dying of colds? Why do we have to wash our hands?'

I mean how long is a piece of string? How many days quarantine did you have? Have you been lived on this planet in the last couple of years or do you live in a bubble or something.

This could go on forever......

The only thing I intend to make a rebuttal of is the notion of "touch starvation", whether it was innate or learned, and whether it could be substituted or bypassed, exactly as what I stated in the OP. The COVID stuff is not entirely irrelevant, it might've been a contributing factor, if you think about it. It's not about whether any of these things are "real", but whether it had permanently distorted people's psyche, turning us all into paranoid germophobe, and human touch becomes dangerous from this prospective. That's the right question worth exploring.

 

[Lovette]

I mentioned language barrier because it seemed the kindest explanation for your bizarre responses to posts in this thread. In post #230 I stated that I largely agreed with you, with the caveat that we should be careful with looking outside The Bible for major life philosophies. You responded by quoting me, and a tirade that had very little to do with what I actually said, and completely dismissed our common ground on the subject. Later you informed us that your tirade was only directed at Bible idolaters and Cessationists. The problem being that I am neither, and nobody even vaguely mentioned cessationism (not even you, until you later clarified for Lynx.)

Do you get why it's hard to have a discussion with you? Like, seriously dude, you are pricklier than a porcupine with PMS.

If you had been paying attention, you would know that I think there is a lot of overlap with stoic philosophy and Biblical concepts; self-control, denial of self, contentment despite difficult life circumstances..... all that is in the Bible and very important. You claim you want to discuss those virtues, but every time I bring them up you completely ignore it and start arguing against some belief I did not state and do not hold to. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and suggested language barrier as a possible cause, but since that upset you I will just have to take you at your stated word.... that you are inventing strawmen and sarcastically throwing them about. Strawmen are one of the most primitive forms of debate; if you are resorting to those then there really is no debate. So I'll have to pass on that.

And for the record, since you will surely respond that I am triggered by stoicism and turning it into a strawman, let me just state that THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCEPTS IN STOIC PHILOSOPHY THAT LINE UP WITH HOW THE BIBLE TELLS US TO BECOME, THROUGH THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. I BELIEVE IN THOSE CONCEPTS AND TRY TO HOLD TO THEM IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

Anyways, I doubt this thread will be worth any further use of my time, but I wish you well.

I wish you well too. But just to be clear, I just assumed you were triggered by the term of stoicism, so you began pounding me on that, despite the "overlap" you may or may not have mentioned, and that's when I started to suspect your motive and throw about strawmen. One purpose of doing so is to turn the table, from a defensive position to an offensive one.

 

[Lovette]

I mentioned language barrier because it seemed the kindest explanation for your bizarre responses to posts in this thread. In post #230 I stated that I largely agreed with you, with the caveat that we should be careful with looking outside The Bible for major life philosophies. You responded by quoting me, and a tirade that had very little to do with what I actually said, and completely dismissed our common ground on the subject. Later you informed us that your tirade was only directed at Bible idolaters and Cessationists. The problem being that I am neither, and nobody even vaguely mentioned cessationism (not even you, until you later clarified for Lynx.)

Do you get why it's hard to have a discussion with you? Like, seriously dude, you are pricklier than a porcupine with PMS.

If you had been paying attention, you would know that I think there is a lot of overlap with stoic philosophy and Biblical concepts; self-control, denial of self, contentment despite difficult life circumstances..... all that is in the Bible and very important. You claim you want to discuss those virtues, but every time I bring them up you completely ignore it and start arguing against some belief I did not state and do not hold to. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and suggested language barrier as a possible cause, but since that upset you I will just have to take you at your stated word.... that you are inventing strawmen and sarcastically throwing them about. Strawmen are one of the most primitive forms of debate; if you are resorting to those then there really is no debate. So I'll have to pass on that.

And for the record, since you will surely respond that I am triggered by stoicism and turning it into a strawman, let me just state that THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCEPTS IN STOIC PHILOSOPHY THAT LINE UP WITH HOW THE BIBLE TELLS US TO BECOME, THROUGH THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. I BELIEVE IN THOSE CONCEPTS AND TRY TO HOLD TO THEM IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

Anyways, I doubt this thread will be worth any further use of my time, but I wish you well.

And btw, when I dragged you into a tirade that "had very little to do with what I actually said”, it wasn't because I didn't understand you due to "language barrier", but rather a tactic to ridicule you and take control of the conversation's direction, an attempt to provoke you and make you follow me, instead of me following you.

 

[Snackersmom]

And btw, when I dragged you into a tirade that "had very little to do with what I actually said”, it wasn't because I didn't understand you due to "language barrier", but rather a tactic to ridicule you and take control of the conversation's direction, an attempt to provoke you and make you follow me, instead of me following you.

Lol ok no worries, I figured as much but it's good to hear it from you directly . Just FYI, primitive tactics like that won't really win you any points here in "singles", it works ok in Bible Discussion but here people see right through that stuff. We just write you off as unable to hold a conversation and possible learning disability.

Regardless, if I pushed you too far I truly do apologize. If I was triggered by anything it was probably your "lonely losers" comment. No, I do not have any personal desire to whine about "touch starvation". But the Bible tells us to uphold the weak, not call them names . We are not all built the same, and not all Christians are mature Christians.

And with that I go.... heading off to meet with a youth group girl who is dealing with her parents divorce, changing schools, trouble making friends, a chaotic home life and her cat just died. I think I'll call her a lonely loser and send her home .

 

[Lynx]

Losers, all the lovely losers
who never thought you'd hear your name
Outside, always on the outside
empty at the wishing well, but time will tell

Blessed Be
the ones who know that they are weak
they shall see
the kingdom come to the broken ones
Blessed Be

- Jason Gray

 

[Lovette]

Lol ok no worries, I figured as much but it's good to hear it from you directly . Just FYI, primitive tactics like that won't really win you any points here in "singles", it works ok in Bible Discussion but here people see right through that stuff. We just write you off as unable to hold a conversation and possible learning disability.

Regardless, if I pushed you too far I truly do apologize. If I was triggered by anything it was probably your "lonely losers" comment. No, I do not have any personal desire to whine about "touch starvation". But the Bible tells us to uphold the weak, not call them names . We are not all built the same, and not all Christians are mature Christians.

And with that I go.... heading off to meet with a youth group girl who is dealing with her parents divorce, changing schools, trouble making friends, a chaotic home life and her cat just died. I think I'll call her a lonely loser and send her home .

Being lonely doesn't make you a loser, being lonely AND whining about it AND crying out with "touch starvation", that makes you a loser. You can't control what happens to you, but you can control how you react. One of my original intent to post this thread is to indict this victimhood and therapy culture, from where this term "touch starvation" originated. Even if it is a real thing, so what? I don't know about how's going on in your side, but over here it's getting smothering hot, the last thing I need is a sweaty palm on my skin.

 

[Lynx]

I was hoping that nobody would ask. Because of my line of work, I am often in major retail stores, like Sam's Club and Costco, for several consecutive days or weeks. Sometimes I see a female worker there or another female salesperson who is similarly set up there that I am attracted to. When I casually approach them by attempting to strike up a simple conversation with them or to joke with them because I am attracted to them, they almost always shun me. You know. Lightning bolts coming out of their eye sockets. Angry looks on their faces. Everything in their body language screaming out to me, "Beat it, buster!" Since I still need to be in the same location with them for days or weeks after that, I do my best to completely avoid them so as to not possibly make them feel uncomfortable, especially in their own workspace. If I have to walk past them for some reason, then I make sure to not even make eye contact with them so as to not possibly cause any offense.

Here's the weird part. When I steer clear of them, they almost always come chasing after me. Usually by mid-afternoon of the day that I start avoiding them, and pretty much always by the second day of avoidance. I never give in to their advances because it all seems so weird to me. You know. As if it has nothing to do with anything except that they crave attention, even from someone they are not interested in. Anyhow, that is what I looked for on YouTube. I typed in something like "women chase you if you avoid them," and a whole bunch of videos came up. Among them were some videos by Stoics who taught, in my estimation, a sort of mental manipulation where women are concerned. I couldn't embrace any of that because I know that is not what Christ taught. Besides that, I am simply not that type of person. That's pretty much it.​

That... Sounds eerily familiar.

Have you been on this forum before under another name?

What's really odd is that I am staring at this post that I apparently made, but I still don't remember having made it.

But I stand by what I (apparently) said. That post of yours really does seem familiar. Syntax can be quite distinctive. And that post in that other thread has the same "feel" to it.

But it is possible that you just sound like somebody I used to know. I sound a lot like cinder sometimes, and she sometimes sounds like me.

 

[ciicii]

You've probably heard this frequently, a lack of touch - not verbal or textual contact via any form of communication, as in "keep in touch", but physical, skin to skin contact - with other human beings leads to oxytoxin deficiency, suboptimal mental state, sadness and other consequences. So I wonder:

1. Is this a real thing, or just whining from lonely losers?
2. If it is a real legitimate thing, is it a nicety or a necessity? In other words, a luxurious want or a basic need?
3. If it is a basic need, is it limited to infants, who can't survive without caretakers' touch, as reported?
4. If not just limited to infants, but also affecting adults, can it be substituted with pets or devices? Does holding a fuzzy kitty help?
5. If affecting adults, and can't be substituted with pets or devices, what's your solution? Go to a massage therapist? Prayer session? Or total denial of "touch starvation"?

As someone who has been forced into celibacy, totally touch starved in any other way from my soon the be ex for almost a year. I can confirm that touch starvation is a thing. In Genesis God says it is not good for man to be alone.
We shouldn't take that lightly, we all need someone and something, it doesnt' alwasy have to be sexual but there needs to be some kind of fellowship and embrace for everyone.
Loneliness is a serious thing that kills people off on a daily basis.

 

[Lovette]

As someone who has been forced into celibacy, totally touch starved in any other way from my soon the be ex for almost a year. I can confirm that touch starvation is a thing. In Genesis God says it is not good for man to be alone.
We shouldn't take that lightly, we all need someone and something, it doesnt' alwasy have to be sexual but there needs to be some kind of fellowship and embrace for everyone.
Loneliness is a serious thing that kills people off on a daily basis.

It can't be that bad like solitary confinement. If you so feel lonely to the point of self destructive behaviors, just get up, have a walk outside, back into the land of the living among your neighbors, your gloominess will be gone, even if you don't touch anybody and don't talk with anybody.

 

[ciicii]

It can't be that bad like solitary confinement. If you so feel lonely to the point of self destructive behaviors, just get up, have a walk outside, back into the land of the living among your neighbors, your gloominess will be gone, even if you don't touch anybody and don't talk with anybody.

That is not true at all. trauma changes you, deprivation changes you. It isn't about comparing what is worse. Solitary confinement is still touch starvation plus more.

You should have empathy for people going through that.

I have trauma to the point I cannot remember my days, I am stuck living with someone who doesn't want to touch me. it doesn't matter weather I go outside or not (which I do) I talk to people, I have fellowship, and I still moments when I am overwhelmed with sadness that is beyond my understand becuase brokenness, betrayal and abuse.
That doesn't go away because I chose to go out with friends.

I lost my child and I can't get over it by having another and forgetting a lost child. or get over this betrayal by just getting married again. there is a lot healing that needs to be done from those emotional and spiritual wounds.

And scripture says we are to mourn with those mourn, not kick them when they're down and saying it is not that just go for a walk.

I am seriously concerns about yoru response and pray no one ever talk to you when you are going through a severe hardship in the way you disregard the serious trauma of others. There is a time fo r'tough love' but it is not in the beginning.

If you were in a relationship with someone and they never touched you, that will get to you. You will feel alone, betrayed. even if you hug other people, you will be stuck feeling worse because why can't your spouse do this for you?

It is the same as Christian feeling down because we are not physically with God like we were supposed to be in the beginning. That ache is real, and that sorrow/ longing is strong.

 

[Lovette]

That is not true at all. trauma changes you, deprivation changes you. It isn't about comparing what is worse. Solitary confinement is still touch starvation plus more.

You should have empathy for people going through that.

I have trauma to the point I cannot remember my days, I am stuck living with someone who doesn't want to touch me. it doesn't matter weather I go outside or not (which I do) I talk to people, I have fellowship, and I still moments when I am overwhelmed with sadness that is beyond my understand becuase brokenness, betrayal and abuse.
That doesn't go away because I chose to go out with friends.

I lost my child and I can't get over it by having another and forgetting a lost child. or get over this betrayal by just getting married again. there is a lot healing that needs to be done from those emotional and spiritual wounds.

And scripture says we are to mourn with those mourn, not kick them when they're down and saying it is not that just go for a walk.

I am seriously concerns about yoru response and pray no one ever talk to you when you are going through a severe hardship in the way you disregard the serious trauma of others. There is a time fo r'tough love' but it is not in the beginning.

If you were in a relationship with someone and they never touched you, that will get to you. You will feel alone, betrayed. even if you hug other people, you will be stuck feeling worse because why can't your spouse do this for you?

It is the same as Christian feeling down because we are not physically with God like we were supposed to be in the beginning. That ache is real, and that sorrow/ longing is strong.

I do empathize, we're taught to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. But you didn't mention any of these traumas and losses, and I didn't disregard you in anyway, just offering some advice.

 

[ciicii]

I do empathize, we're taught to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. But you didn't mention any of these traumas and losses, and I didn't disregard you in anyway, just offering some advice.

with or without that info it doesn't come across as empathetic. I'm sorry., but saying it isn't as bad as xyz is disregarding. That is my opinion on the matter.

From what I have experienced I find it is always best to assume everything needs to be taken up with extreme care. I hope the rest of the discussion of the thread is fruitful though. no hard feelings

 

[Lovette]

with or without that info it doesn't come across as empathetic. I'm sorry., but saying it isn't as bad as xyz is disregarding. That is my opinion on the matter.

From what I have experienced I find it is always best to assume everything needs to be taken up with extreme care. I hope the rest of the discussion of the thread is fruitful though. no hard feelings

Such traumas and losses remind us that this world is sinful and broken, pointing us toward the Lord and his saving grace. If I were happily married with kids, always preoccupied, I'd probably never seek the Lord. But when you're loneli, hurt and desparate, all of this world seems empty and delusional, making you question the meaning of your life, your identity, your worth, that's when the Lord comes in and opens your eyes to the spiritual realities.

 

[passion84god]

What's really odd is that I am staring at this post that I apparently made, but I still don't remember having made it.

But I stand by what I (apparently) said. That post of yours really does seem familiar. Syntax can be quite distinctive. And that post in that other thread has the same "feel" to it.

But it is possible that you just sound like somebody I used to know. I sound a lot like cinder sometimes, and she sometimes sounds like me.

I saw this post last night and the other post you made, but I was still feeling hot under the collar at that time, to my own shame, so I chose to wait to respond. I want to apologize directly to you for the way I behaved last night. Yesterday was already a very trying day for me, and it wasn't what you said, but where you said it, that bothered me. I definitely blew things way out of proportion, and I sincerely apologize to you for that. Like another poster said to me earlier today, it is the man that I see in the mirror that is the real issue. When I looked at myself in both a natural mirror and the mirror of God's word last night, I definitely did not like what I saw. I am genuinely sorry if I disrespected you. Whatever anybody might think of me, I have nothing but best wishes for you. I did genuinely inquire about your welfare and the welfare of your father not too long ago because people truly do matter to me. I thought about apologizing to you privately, but since my overreaction was public, I wanted to publicly tell you how sorry I truly am. I chose to do it in this thread, and not the other one, because I am already ashamed of what I said there, and I didn't want to possibly add to it. I have genuinely repented before God for both my words and actions, and now I am genuinely repenting before you. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive me.​

 

[Anchorite]

And btw, when I dragged you into a tirade that "had very little to do with what I actually said”, it wasn't because I didn't understand you due to "language barrier", but rather a tactic to ridicule you and take control of the conversation's direction, an attempt to provoke you and make you follow me, instead of me following you.

Lovette explains his strategy. Ridicule. Controlling.

 

[Lynx]

I saw this post last night and the other post you made, but I was still feeling hot under the collar at that time, to my own shame, so I chose to wait to respond. I want to apologize directly to you for the way I behaved last night. Yesterday was already a very trying day for me, and it wasn't what you said, but where you said it, that bothered me. I definitely blew things way out of proportion, and I sincerely apologize to you for that. Like another poster said to me earlier today, it is the man that I see in the mirror that is the real issue. When I looked at myself in both a natural mirror and the mirror of God's word last night, I definitely did not like what I saw. I am genuinely sorry if I disrespected you. Whatever anybody might think of me, I have nothing but best wishes for you. I did genuinely inquire about your welfare and the welfare of your father not too long ago because people truly do matter to me. I thought about apologizing to you privately, but since my overreaction was public, I wanted to publicly tell you how sorry I truly am. I chose to do it in this thread, and not the other one, because I am already ashamed of what I said there, and I didn't want to possibly add to it. I have genuinely repented before God for both my words and actions, and now I am genuinely repenting before you. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive me.​

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm an old man and I've slept since then. So I still don't remember making that post.

But it's right there with my name on it, and I can't find any evidence that somebody has hacked my account, and nobody else uses my phone except me... So I guess I did.

 

[passion84god]

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm an old man and I've slept since then. So I still don't remember making that post.

But it's right there with my name on it, and I can't find any evidence that somebody has hacked my account, and nobody else uses my phone except me... So I guess I did.

There's no need for you to apologize. I did just offer another apology on the thread where I offended. I truly am sorry.