Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

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Goes back to my first response. Testing the spirits interpretation of scripture is imperative. Human understanding is a co-factor being we are still in this flesh and indwelt as we are , we are still trying to discern what is the leading of the spirit. And the leading of our own understanding.

If one comes to the conclusion that ones understanding is flawed then on can call upon God to guide them into understanding.. The greatest wisdom a man can attain is to know He is a fool.. That way He is then open to being guided.. To listen more and speak less.. God can and will guide those who are genuine in their seeking.. The meek will inherit the earth because the meek are not puffed up with confidence in their own intellectual abilities..

Love me! Or I'll send you to Hell!

No it's more like Love me or i will have no other option but to see you cast into the eternal lake of fire..

God cannot be imperfect and thus He cannot save those who hate the truth and love evil.. If He did satan would point an accusing finger at Him and declare to the Angels that God was corrupt and unjustified to be the one and only God of all existence.. And the satanic rebellion would succeed.. But thats not going to happen because God is Perfect and Cannot be corrupt.. So all those who hated the Love of His truth will be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

No, but if our theology requires there to be a fear paradigm in your belief system, that's your choice.

I have no fear.. My theology has lead me to the knowledge of Gods love for me and that knowledge has removed any fear i used to have.. The knowledge of the Gospel is all about removing fear.. The only people who should fear God are the ones who are rejecting His love..

1 John 4: KJV
17 "Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. {18} There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. {19} We love him, because he first loved us."

The Gospel knowledge when fully embraced casts out fear..

And therefore God created those he foreknew to die damned.
You'll maybe accept this or not. I don't actually care.

Yes indeed God did foreknow that some He created would reject His will and sadly they would end up being cast into the eternal lake of fire.. But God is justified because God did not force then to reject his will.. Each individuel has been free to make their own response to Gods offer of eternal salvation.. Each individuel is responsable for their own response to His will..

If you believe Satan and 1/3 of the angels are still in Heaven, that the war in Heaven is yet to come then you're believing Satan follows God's command as God created him to be lord of this world and the adversary of his will for us.

Satan made a claim against God before the heavenly host.. That God was not justified to be the one and only God and that he ( satan ) is justified to claim Godhood and be the equal of God.. God could have zapped satan on the spot in front of the heavenly host.. But would that have disproven satans claim??? No... The heavenly host would have been justified to believe that God only ruled because of His ultimate power to destroy.. They would not have willingly believed and accepted God as the one and only God out of love and respect and knowledge that God was trully the only One who can be God.. They would have bowed out of fear of a ultimately powerful dictator..

So what did God do.. God created a stage where the claims of satan could be put to the test and God by demonstration would win over the heavenly host and save 2/3rds of them by allowing satan enough freedom to try and demonstrate why he was justified in his claim to Godhood by using the stage of the universe and humanity... God gave satan enough rope to hang himself.. And satan went out and has done so.. That's why 2/3rds of the Angels have sided with God and those Angels have an eternal future with God while satan and the 1/3rd of his angels will have eternity in the lake of fire... If God did not give satan unlimited authority on earth.. The restrainer still prevents satan from absolute freedom of action.. The story of Job shows how God was in ultimate control and allowed satan only to go so far in his actions against Lot..

Lot is a symbolic representation of the entire human population.. It is our mission to play our part in the discrediting of the satanic rebellion and we are tasked to live a limited short life time in this world only.. I am glad to play my part in the downfall of the satanic rebellion even if it is a life of suffering on earth.. Eternity is Eternity.. Life on earth is as nothing compared to that..

 

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Who does the tormenting? I did a thorough Bible word studies about "forever", "everlasting", "death", "sleep", and "destroy". Sometimes "forever" is not forever physically. It means the relationship with God has been forever broken off, like the verse you sited.

Jude
7 The wicked are sentenced to suffer just as Sodom and Gomorrah
and the adjacent towns--
which likewise gave themselves over to impurity
and indulged in unnatural vice and sensual perversity--
are laid out in plain sight as an exhibit
of perpetual punishment to warn of everlasting fire.
8 Nevertheless in like manner, these dreamers also corrupt the body,
scorn and reject authority and government,
and revile and libel and scoff at heavenly glories (the glorious ones).

The fire does the tormenting as far as i know... Have you ever suffered from a burn to your skin?? It is not nice.. Imagine your whole body being in fire but never being consumed..

 

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This is something we hear all the time in Christian circles.
It's interesting to consider the basis for such a claim.

If the New Testamant is the basis for this claim, then what was it referring to?
There was no New Testament when the New Testament was written.

In fact, the New Testament was not "written" in the sense that we think of.
It was a compilation of works that were canonized by a committee.
The works were judged to be inspired by the Church. (capital "C")

You are either moved by the Holy Spirit to believe that it is the inspired word of God or you don't.. This is basic stuff..

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm not a member of a church.

Well, of course not, you're loathing of the Bride is a well known fact. Wonder what that means, spiritually speaking. You don't belong to the body of Christ but you do ridicule those who do and the word of God at the same time.

Yes, you do, don't deny it:

I don't second guess God at his word.

Love me! Or I'll send you to Hell! God is more than you think.

More of your being unafraid to blaspheme and reply against God. That, and you hold to a vast amount of ignorance as witnessed in that statement. Who are you to direct God in how you think he should be fair, or according to your ideas? The thing is you think you're god, and place God on a lower level, and your logic on a higher level.

No, but if our theology requires there to be a fear paradigm in your belief system, that's your choice.

We happen to believe the record of Scripture and that Christ warned us to fear God. I just love this lame attack, the ridicule of fear "tactics." I've always heard this used by unbelievers.

There is much in Scripture given to instill fear. But you "don't second guess God at his word"...uh...but you do. You do it on here all day long.

Snipped the rest of your drivel, it is apparent what your spirit is, and that your claim to being biblical is untrue.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe Adam waited to see what happened to Eve. He used Eve as a gunnia pig. Because Eve did not die imediatly Adam then thought that well it musn't be too bad and he ate of the tree himself.. And of course they both died..

The reason why Adam and Eve lost their ""good"" status.. (((Remember when God had intially created them and the world He declared it good..))) Was because they now had the knowledge of good and evil..

Good theory
I believe Adam saw th emost beutiful woman God ever created, And knew she had died. So decided to commit suicide with her, because he did not want to lose her.

Men have been doing this ever since.

 

[Sketch]

I believe Adam waited to see what happened to Eve. He used Eve as a gunnia pig. Because Eve did not die imediatly Adam then thought that well it musn't be too bad and he ate of the tree himself.. And of course they both died..

The reason why Adam and Eve lost their ""good"" status.. (((Remember when God had intially created them and the world He declared it good..))) Was because they now had the knowledge of good and evil..

That's a fine opinion, but it is not based on the facts.
If eating from the tree gave them the knowledge of good, what was the basis for "good" previously?

God's creation was good. Adam and Eve didn't make it good, nor were they "good" in and of themselves.
In fact they made things bad. In case you hadn't noticed.

 

[Sketch]

You are either moved by the Holy Spirit to believe that it is the inspired word of God or you don't.. This is basic stuff..

Don't get me wrong. I believe the Bible is inspired.
But most believe that it self-declares itself to be inspired. (both old and new testaments)
I think that is an erroneous claim. Or at a minimum highly questionable.

Consider the facts.
Again, the New Testament is a collection of writings, not an intended volume from a cooperative human effort.
We have an initially unconnected collection of testimonial accounts (gospels), history (Acts) letters to the churches,
and the Revelations of John. God orchestrated all this, of course.

Here's the point.
So, when someone wrote in one of the letters in this collection that all scripture is inspired by God, to what was he referring?
Certainly not to a collection of books that did not yet exist as a canonized scripture.

And if any of us have never done so, we should show our Catholic brothers and sisters some gratitude
by thanking them for the Bible they canonized for us. Where would we be without it?

 

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That's a fine opinion, but it is not based on the facts.
If eating from the tree gave them the knowledge of good, what was the basis for "good" previously?

God's creation was good. Adam and Eve didn't make it good, nor were they "good" in and of themselves.
In fact they made things bad. In case you hadn't noticed.

Adam and Eve where Good because God declared them to be so because they where part of His creation...

They only became imperfect when they got that knowledge of good and evil..

When a child is innocnet it had no knowledge if it is doing good or evil.. They just do what nature moves them to do..

Adam and Eve made it bad or imperfect After they gained the knowledge of good and evil.. Before that time things where perfect in the garden of Eden..

 

[Sketch]

Adam and Eve where Good because God declared them to be so because they where part of His creation...

They only became imperfect when they got that knowledge of good and evil..

When a child is innocnet it had no knowledge if it is doing good or evil.. They just do what nature moves them to do..

Adam and Eve made it bad or imperfect After they gained the knowledge of good and evil.. Before that time things where perfect in the garden of Eden..

Show me where God commands Adam not to gain the knowledge of good and evil.
Show me where the Fall of humankind is associated with the knowledge of good and evil.
It seems to me that your claims are baseless. Conjecture. Which is fine, just admit it, or prove otherwise.

 

[Adstar]

Don't get me wrong. I believe the Bible is inspired.
But most believe that it self-declares itself to be inspired. (both old and new testaments)
I think that is an erroneous claim. Or at a minimum highly questionable.

Consider the facts.
Again, the New Testament is a collection of writings, not an intended volume from a cooperative human effort.
We have an initially unconnected collection of testimonial accounts (gospels), history (Acts) letters to the churches,
and the Revelations of John. God orchestrated all this, of course.

Here's the point.
So, when someone wrote in one of the letters in this collection that all scripture is inspired by God, to what was he referring?
Certainly not to a collection of books that did not yet exist as a canonized scripture.

And if any of us have never done so, we should show our Catholic brothers and sisters some gratitude
by thanking them for the Bible they canonized for us. Where would we be without it?

The Holy Spirit which indwelled the writers of the New testament caused them to write the will of God,, They where inspired.. And God is well Able to cause the council that canonized the Bible to gather and declare cannon the books that they did.. And NO we do not have any catholic church brothers and sisters.. They added the apocrypha books which where Not canonical and because of that they where and still are guilty of adding to the Word of God and in the book of Revelation a curse is revealed against them..

I was born into a catholic family.. I was an altar boy for 10 years and went to a primary school run by a convent nunnery and then went to a catholic marist brothers High/ college .. So i know only too well about the evil twisting of the world of God carried out by the catholic church.. I am glad i was gifted the Word of God to read so i could embrace it and renounce the catholic church for the evil false imposter it is..

 

[Adstar]

Show me where God commands Adam not to gain the knowledge of good and evil.
Show me where the Fall of humankind is associated with the knowledge of good and evil.
It seems to me that your claims are baseless. Conjecture. Which is fine, just admit it, or prove otherwise.

God told Adam and Eve that the tree they where not to eat from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..

Genesis 2: KJV
15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. {16} And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {17} But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I am amazed you have such a lack of knowledge of scripture but have the arrogance to tell me that my claims are baseless.. Arrogance and ignorance is not a good combination Sketch.. Try to learn humility so you can learn.. Your showing nothing but pride in your recent posts..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's a fine opinion, but it is not based on the facts.
If eating from the tree gave them the knowledge of good, what was the basis for "good" previously?

God's creation was good. Adam and Eve didn't make it good, nor were they "good" in and of themselves.
In fact they made things bad. In case you hadn't noticed.

Adam and Eve before the fall under their own power were righteous.
After the fall. They could not of their own power return to that righteousness. And continued to fqall short of it.

Trying to use pre fall condition to prove post fall will just lead to false understanding of the human condition

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Show me where God commands Adam not to gain the knowledge of good and evil.
Show me where the Fall of humankind is associated with the knowledge of good and evil.
It seems to me that your claims are baseless. Conjecture. Which is fine, just admit it, or prove otherwise.

God said do not eat the tree

Adam was tempted to eat of it.

His temptation led to sin

His sin (selfish act of serving self and what he thoought he needed, instead of continuing to trrust god) is what caused his fall.

 

[Sketch]

God told Adam and Eve that the tree they where not to eat from was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..

Genesis 2: KJV
15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. {16} And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: {17} But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I am amazed you have such a lack of knowledge of scripture but have the arrogance to tell me that my claims are baseless.. Arrogance and ignorance is not a good combination Sketch.. Try to learn humility so you can learn.. Your showing nothing but pride in your recent posts..

Apparently you are mistaking my attitude, claiming pride.
And then claiming I am ignorant? On what basis? Your own pride perhaps?

You have actually proved my point.
God commands Adam not to eat. Nothing about gaining the knowledge of good and evil being the transgression.

 

[Sketch]

Adam and Eve before the fall under their own power were righteous.
After the fall. They could not of their own power return to that righteousness. And continued to fqall short of it.

Trying to use pre fall condition to prove post fall will just lead to false understanding of the human condition

False understanding?
You are claiming that Adam and Eve were righteous by their own power. Wow. That's a new one.

 

[Sketch]

God said do not eat the tree

Adam was tempted to eat of it.

His temptation led to sin

His sin (selfish act of serving self and what he thoought he needed, instead of continuing to trrust god) is what caused his fall.

His sin was to eat what was forbidden to eat. It was that simple.
God said, don't eat that, but they ate that.
Not sure why you guys insist on making this into something it isn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

False understanding?
You are claiming that Adam and Eve were righteous by their own power. Wow. That's a new one.

They were..Thats not new, Thats long been a known fact.

Before the fall Adam and Eve were able not to sin (because they did not yet have a fallen nature)
God gave them a command, and they could follow it. ). After the fall.. they were not able not to sin.

Unlike when God gave moses commands, KNOWING they were not able to keep them. Yet he gave them to lead them to christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

His sin was to eat what was forbidden to eat. It was that simple.
God said, don't eat that, but they ate that.
Not sure why you guys insist on making this into something it isn't.

Us guys?

Come on man, I just prove that point..His sin was to serve self not God, and in that, he ate the fruit.

Stop assuming,, it makes you look bad.

 

[Sketch]

They were..Thats not new, Thats long been a known fact.

Before the fall Adam and Eve were able not to sin (because they did not yet have a fallen nature)
God gave them a command, and they could follow it. ). After the fall.. they were not able not to sin.

Unlike when God gave moses commands, KNOWING they were not able to keep them. Yet he gave them to lead them to christ.

That's silly. There is no power in not sinning when you don't have a sin nature.
Plus, they did sin. How do you explain that?

 

[Adstar]

Apparently you are mistaking my attitude, claiming pride.
And then claiming I am ignorant? On what basis? Your own pride perhaps?

You have actually proved my point.
God commands Adam not to eat. Nothing about gaining the knowledge of good and evil being the transgression.

God allowed them to have access to the Tree of Life.. Access to this tree caused them to live and never to die as long as they had access to the tree of life they would live forever.. So the trees where named revealing to Adam and Eve what they would provide if they consumed the fruit of that tree.. So when God told them they where not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil it was clear that he was telling Adam and Eve that He did not want them obtaining the knowledge of good and evil...

satan knew this and thats why he told Eve that if she ate the tree she would become like God knowing good and evil.. So it was clear to them that God did not want them having access to the knowledge of good and evil..