Israel Declares War

[PennEd]

From the article:
A recent poll shows significant Palestinian support for the U.S.-designated terrorist group Hamas and its October 7 massacre — the deadliest against Jewish people since the Nazi Holocaust, which saw the torture, rape, execution, and abduction of hundreds of Israeli civilians — while nearly three-quarters favor the elimination of Israel, with the creation of a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” in its stead.

A recent poll by Birzeit University’s Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) shows strong Palestinian support for Hamas and the October 7 attack against Israel.

In the West Bank, 83.1% of Palestinian respondents supported the attack, while in Gaza, the figure was 63.6%.

In the West Bank, just 6.9% opposed the attack, while 8.4% were neutral; and in Gaza only 20.9% opposed the attack, while 14.4% were neutral.

Overall, 75% of Palestinian respondents agreed with the attack, while 74.7% favored a single Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” in place of Israel.

Minimal differences were noted between Palestinian men (75.2%) and women (74.9%) in their support for the October 7 attack.

 

[ZNP]

It's hard to lay this claim at the Jews feet!

In Dave Hunt's book, A woman rides the Beast, he makes a VERY compelling argument that it is the Catholic Church that is the woman, drunk with the blood of the Saints.

I think it is undeniable that at the time John wrote the Book of Revelation the woman was the Vatican and the beast was the Roman Empire. However, at the end of the age the Beast system is worldwide, the Roman empire has expanded to encompass the whole world. Also the woman is far bigger than the Vatican.

There is no way you can tie The Great Babylon in Revelation 18 to the Vatican. Then in Revelation 17 the "city that reigns over kings" is a stretch if you try and tie that to the Vatican, you get into the illuminati and all of that deep poop. However, everyone can see that the US dollar reigns over kings of the earth.

It would be fair to say that London and Washington DC are the daughters of Rome.

I don't doubt that the Vatican has far more influence on the US than most people realize, however, scarlet, purple, gold, pearls and precious stones are not a valid description of Catholic priests, cardinals and the Pope. If you look at the apostasy as a whole you can see all of those "churches" can be described as being decked out in scarlet and purple, while the prosperity gospel folks and mega churches are decked out in gold. Meanwhile pearls and precious stones are what Hollywood starlets and people at the Grammies wear.

Perhaps the biggest spiritual influence to the apostasy is the Catholic church, but it is too narrow to just look at them.

 

[cv5]

I told you. Jesus spoke at 2 different times and locations that we commonly refer to as the Olivet Discourse. Just like OT prophets that had to give a short term prophecy, followed by a longer future prophecy, Jesus gave a short term prophecy of the events that unfolded in 70 AD, and yet unfulfilled prophecy about the end times. There is GREAT confusion by both camps on this, as each try to make fit the prophecies for either ALL for 70 AD, or ALL for End Times. Neither is right.

Tell me, was THIS passage fulfilled in 70 AD?
Matthew 24:21-22 in the New King James Version of the Bible reads:
"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened"

Correct. And Luke 21:12-24 is ONLY describing the 70AD destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[cv5]

It's hard to lay this claim at the Jews feet!

In Dave Hunt's book, A woman rides the Beast, he makes a VERY compelling argument that it is the Catholic Church that is the woman, drunk with the blood of the Saints.

The CS is merely a PART of the Babylonish great whore system.
It goes all the way back to Nimrod.

 

[Adelia]

From the article:
A recent poll shows significant Palestinian support for the U.S.-designated terrorist group Hamas and its October 7 massacre — the deadliest against Jewish people since the Nazi Holocaust, which saw the torture, rape, execution, and abduction of hundreds of Israeli civilians — while nearly three-quarters favor the elimination of Israel, with the creation of a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” in its stead.

A recent poll by Birzeit University’s Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) shows strong Palestinian support for Hamas and the October 7 attack against Israel.

In the West Bank, 83.1% of Palestinian respondents supported the attack, while in Gaza, the figure was 63.6%.

In the West Bank, just 6.9% opposed the attack, while 8.4% were neutral; and in Gaza only 20.9% opposed the attack, while 14.4% were neutral.

Overall, 75% of Palestinian respondents agreed with the attack, while 74.7% favored a single Palestinian state “from the river to the sea” in place of Israel.

Minimal differences were noted between Palestinian men (75.2%) and women (74.9%) in their support for the October 7 attack.

I tried to do some shopping a couple days ago.I pull into the parking lot and it is full of proteters in favor of Hamas. There were an equal amount of police trying to insure safety but one had to walk thru the mob to enter the store. I was sure that if I did that the media would take a picture of the protest and I would look like I supported Hamas!! No, thank you. I turned around and went home.

 

[Ted01]

I told you. Jesus spoke at 2 different times and locations that we commonly refer to as the Olivet Discourse. Just like OT prophets that had to give a short term prophecy, followed by a longer future prophecy, Jesus gave a short term prophecy of the events that unfolded in 70 AD, and yet unfulfilled prophecy about the end times. There is GREAT confusion by both camps on this, as each try to make fit the prophecies for either ALL for 70 AD, or ALL for End Times. Neither is right.

Tell me, was THIS passage fulfilled in 70 AD?
Matthew 24:21-22 in the New King James Version of the Bible reads:
"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened"

Haha, sometimes you say the darnedest things, brother.
If Jesus spoke the same thing, at two different locations... one of them couldn't be the "Olivet" discourse, as that refers to a location.
Anyway...

If there is "GREAT" confusion held by both sides... two questions?
Why are people so dogmatic when discussing these things? Some in this thread have been extremely harsh to others holding other views... both sides, as you say. (where's Unity of the Spirit?)
Also, you say "neither is right"... rather dogmatically (haha)... can there be any proper understanding of these things, in your opinion?

(Maybe someone ought to start an eschatology thread?)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Why exactly does God still need Israel?

You will find the answer in your Bible.

 

[Ted01]

You are always right.

And he's darned proud of it!! Lol.

 

[ZNP]

Why exactly does God still need Israel?

The book of revelation is very clear, the salvation of Israel is a bookend to this age. God chose the most obstinate people when He chose Israel. He did this because He will be able to save the most people in the world. God desires all men to be saved and come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and His choosing Israel is fully aligned with that purpose.

 

[PennEd]

Haha, sometimes you say the darnedest things, brother.
If Jesus spoke the same thing, at two different locations... one of them couldn't be the "Olivet" discourse, as that refers to a location.
Anyway...

If there is "GREAT" confusion held by both sides... two questions?
Why are people so dogmatic when discussing these things? Some in this thread have been extremely harsh to others holding other views... both sides, as you say. (where's Unity of the Spirit?)
Also, you say "neither is right"... rather dogmatically (haha)... can there be any proper understanding of these things, in your opinion?

(Maybe someone ought to start an eschatology thread?)

I think the late great Chuck Missler does an excellent job of addressing this issue. I’ll post the whole article, but here’s an excerpt:

A Hazardous Tradition
The traditional “harmonization of the Gospels” is part of the problem. Ever since Augustine, scholars have attempted to meld the four distinct Gospels into a combined narrative. While this can be useful for a cursory review of the life of Christ, it can also result in a myopia of sorts and the Olivet Discourse (recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) is a salient example.
Since Matthew was skilled in shorthand, we tend to lean on his detailed rendering. And yet there seems to be a substantial disparity between his record and that of Luke’s. Numerous elements appear identical in both accounts, so it has been fashionable — for 1700 years — to assume that they both deal with the same event. Attempts to “harmonize” them have continued to yield a treacherous minefield of confusion.

https://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/580/

 

[ZNP]

I think the late great Chuck Missler does an excellent job of addressing this issue. I’ll post the whole article, but here’s an excerpt:

A Hazardous Tradition
The traditional “harmonization of the Gospels” is part of the problem. Ever since Augustine, scholars have attempted to meld the four distinct Gospels into a combined narrative. While this can be useful for a cursory review of the life of Christ, it can also result in a myopia of sorts and the Olivet Discourse (recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21) is a salient example.
Since Matthew was skilled in shorthand, we tend to lean on his detailed rendering. And yet there seems to be a substantial disparity between his record and that of Luke’s. Numerous elements appear identical in both accounts, so it has been fashionable — for 1700 years — to assume that they both deal with the same event. Attempts to “harmonize” them have continued to yield a treacherous minefield of confusion.

https://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/580/

I think it is very clear that the three synoptic gospels have different agendas and some very interesting distinctions or differences that clearly indicate these different agendas.

I view Mark as the "cliff notes" version of the gospel while Luke is the full version. I think you can make a case that Luke is the gospel that depicts the pre tribulation rapture, Mark is the gospel to those who go through the tribulation, and Matthew is the gospel to the nation of Israel. Obviously that is only one perspective as all scripture is profitable for instruction in godliness. Still it explains the differences which really do need to be explained, otherwise they can be made out to be contradictions.

For example, the verse in Matthew that the gospel must be preached to the whole world and then the end will come is different in Mark which says it must be published, and in Luke it isn't even there, simply the charge to go out into all the earth with the gospel.

Today the gospel has gone out into all the world with over 200 translations of the Bible, along with Youtube, the internet, etc. However, there are many countries where the gospel is not published. I believe that will change after the rapture and children from every nation will be taken. But you would have to be even more bold to preach the gospel in some of these nations. I also think this acceleration will be why they have to decapitate all those who are preaching the gospel.

 

[cv5]

If there is "GREAT" confusion held by both sides...

No. Absolutely untrue.

I have literally ZERO confusion regarding the so-called Olivet discourses.
I have it nailed down just about to perfection. And understand precisely how this dovetails into the OT and Revelation prophecies.

So speak for yourself.

If you are stuck in a clueless Church that wishes to remain so, that is your problem and thankfully not mine.

But then again, I gathered my own manna and picked up the axe head all on my own.

 

[cv5]

while Luke is the full version.

Indeed it is. Of the 70AD destruction verses 12-24.

Could not be more obvious for the serious Bible student.
Or more oblivious if you are a Biblically illiterate preterist or amillennialist.

Luk 21:12
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled

 

[cv5]

No. Absolutely untrue.

I have literally ZERO confusion regarding the so-called Olivet discourses.
I have it nailed down just about to perfection. And understand precisely how this dovetails into the OT and Revelation prophecies.

So speak for yourself.

If you are stuck in a clueless Church that wishes to remain so, that is your problem and thankfully not mine.

But then again, I gathered my own manna and picked up the axe head all on my own.

Yes @Ted01 . Napping during class truly is your perpetual failure.

 

[ZNP]

Ezekiel 22:1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, will you judge her? Will you judge this city of bloodshed? Then confront her with all her detestable practices 3 and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: You city that brings on herself doom by shedding blood in her midst and defiles herself by making idols, 4 you have become guilty because of the blood you have shed and have become defiled by the idols you have made. You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations and a laughingstock to all the countries. 5 Those who are near and those who are far away will mock you, you infamous city, full of turmoil.

 

[Ted01]

Yes @Ted01 . Napping during class truly is your perpetual failure.

You know, there's a thread about narcissists that might be of help for you... take it to heart.

 

[cv5]

You know, there's a thread about narcissists that might be of help for you... take it to heart.

Really? Awesome.

Is there a thread about being just plain dumb too?

Or one about being too lazy to gather your own manna and pick up your own axe head?

"I gathered my own manna and picked up the axe head all on my own"

 

[ZNP]

Really? Awesome.

Is there a thread about being just plain dumb too?

Or one about being too lazy to gather your own manna and pick up your own axe head?

"I gathered my own manna and picked up the axe head all on my own"

Yes, we have many threads on being dumb and lazy, just search with those words and search titles only.

 

[HeIsHere]

I told you. Jesus spoke at 2 different times and locations that we commonly refer to as the Olivet Discourse. Just like OT prophets that had to give a short term prophecy, followed by a longer future prophecy, Jesus gave a short term prophecy of the events that unfolded in 70 AD, and yet unfulfilled prophecy about the end times. There is GREAT confusion by both camps on this, as each try to make fit the prophecies for either ALL for 70 AD, or ALL for End Times. Neither is right.

Tell me, was THIS passage fulfilled in 70 AD?
Matthew 24:21-22 in the New King James Version of the Bible reads:
"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened"

Yes

 

[PennEd]

Yes

You're telling us that the events that happened in 70 AD, were the WORST tribulation in ALL history!!?
And the worst there EVER will be?
Hmm... Just in the last 80 years I'm thinking the 80 million plus human beings killed in WWII would make your assertion seem absurd to say the least.
Just to name ONE more, how about the 100,000,000 to 200,000,000 killed by the Black Plague?

Cmon guy!
21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.