Israel goes full Moloch: state-funded abortions opened up <--Demar

[TheAristocat]

Gal 3
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In the sense that Gentile Christians are the physical seed of Abraham, that is incorrect. But they are Abraham's seed in the sense that they are heirs according to the promise to that seed; that is correct. The language used in Galatians can be less than clear sometimes because of the analogies and symbols used. Which is why I, personally, have a problem with using it to explain Christians as supplanting the chosen people of God.

The way I understand it is that God chose a physical People to be a physical symbol of his presence and power in this physical world. Of course he always had a spiritual People, too. Those Jews who didn't believe in the Messiah were and are cut off from God's chosen spiritual People. Those who disobey certain laws are cut off from being his chosen physical People. Those Jews who accept Christ are both God's chosen physical and spiritual People. And Christians are grafted into Christ to be one with God's chosen spiritual People. But I think there remains a physical symbol of God's power and presence in this world. The fact that the Jews, as a physical People, have not been utterly destroyed in spite of the world's attempts but instead have been regathered I think speaks to God's power. Therefore they are a symbol of God's presence and power. But if they smeer that symbol and sully God's reputation through sin I'm sure God will take action to correct such rebellion.

 

[1still_waters]

I, personally, have a problem with using it to explain Christians as supplanting the chosen people of God.

The way I understand it is that God chose a physical People to be a physical symbol of his presence and power in this physical world. .

The Bible seems to indicate anyone who believes in Jesus is God's physical symbol of his presence and power in this world. Unless Gentiles become invisible ghosts upon conversion, they are very very physical.

Phil 2
14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing,15 so that you may become blamelessand pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”[a] Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky16 as you hold firmly to the word of life. And then I will be able to boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor in vain.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul seems to make it clear there is no distinction. It's about Christ. Period.

The language used in Galatians can be less than clear sometimes because of the analogies and symbols used.

It's very clear when we don't try to impose presumptions upon the text.

God's physical presence in this world now is through those who believe in Jesus.

God's physical presence and power is not seen through people who reject Jesus, and who handle the OT like Muslims do. They read it, but don't see Jesus the Savior revealed in it.

I do agree God will still keep his promise to "physical" Jews, just as he promised anyone who believes in Jesus. But we get into a bad area when we think God is showing his power through rebellious people who reject Messiah, as we overlook those physically on this planet who are believing and living for Jesus.

 

[TheAristocat]

I do agree God will still keep his promise to "physical" Jews, just as he promised anyone who believes in Jesus. But we get into a bad area when we think God is showing his power through rebellious people who reject Messiah, as we overlook those physically on this planet who are believing and living for Jesus.

I think this is the part of your post I agree with most.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Red added for emphasis. Paul, however, still does not only make a distinction between unbelieving Jews and Gentiles but also believing Jews and Gentiles. But could be doing so to speak in terms that people are familiar with. Here we see Paul speaking of Gentiles in Christ receiving the blessing of Abraham:

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

In order to receive the blessing you have to be saved through Christ. And if the moment you've received the blessing you're still referred to as a Gentile, then there is a distinction even for those who are saved. As I said above, though, he could be using terms that we are familiar with.

 

[TheAristocat]

One of the reasons I believe there is a separate physical People that does not necessarily depend on Jesus for recognition as a chosen People is the following quote:

Those who disobey certain laws are cut off from being his chosen physical People.

That comes from the OT where you have people like Abraham and Moses being admitted to Paradise (i.e. being saved). I have a problem with accepting that a chance eating of blood would cut you off from entering Paradise as one of God's chosen no matter the sacrifices you made afterward (if you believe the sacrifices once served the same purpose of Christ) and no matter the sacrifice Christ later made.

Leviticus 7:27 Whatsoever soul it be that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

The implication here being no blessing and no inclusion in the chosen People. And if we assume one People and only one People would receive blessing and enter Paradise, then eating blood also caused one to lose their salvation without chance of redemption. But, personally, I tend to think it means cutting off from God's chosen physical People. That is, no blessings for you if you do this unless you're also recognized as God's chosen spiritual People in Christ. And another thing. The blessings given to God's chosen physical People dealt with physical things: bumper crops, watered land, safety from physical enemies, robust children, etc. No mention was made of riches in Paradise or spiritual salvation as far as I can see. The focus was largely on the physical.

So I tend toward believing in one chosen physical People with certain blessings and one chosen spiritual People (with spiritual blessings). In simple terms, if your virtues are physical (i.e. obey God's laws) you'll receive physical blessings in order to be the physical symbol of God. If your virtues are spiritual (i.e. through Christ) you'll receive spiritual blessings. If you're both, then all the better. I just don't see the aforementioned promised blessings falling on Gentile Christians. But of course who is a Christian and who isn't? So I'm divided in my opinion. And I'm open to correction on this line of thought.

 

[TheAristocat]

And before people get on me for preaching something akin to a prosperity Gospel (although this physical prosperity has nothing to do with the Gospel but with physically following God and not in the manner of the Pharisees either), let's look at history. Every time the Jews rebelled against God's laws they were punished accordingly. Job may have suffered major setbacks, but he was blessed all the more in the end. Can we say the same of Christians today? Is it heretical to think that following God will bring physical blessing? If not, then it also becomes important that we know how to follow him. As everyone has their own opinions... this could be a problem.

But in the end my perspective on it deals not with what blessings we deserve but with what sort of symbol of God's power and presence we become. In other words, we receive blessings not because we deserve them, but because they serve a purpose.

 

[TheAristocat]

But of course who is a Christian and who isn't?

I meant to say, "How can we know who really believes the Gospel?"

Usually by their works. But when modern Christianity moves toward a focus on the abstract (i.e. love) and away from the physical (i.e. how to love through actions) then the identification becomes unclear.