It is time to rethink Sola Scriptura?
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Yeah, I get it. The old cross avoidance routine. We demand that our religion is strictly vertical. It is all about convincing ourselves that we believe right so we are right with God. Congratulations you are half right. Jesus said that our prime directive is to love God but also to love our fellow mankind as much as we love ourselves- horizontal Christianity. Paul said if you have the most powerful kind of faith imaginable but do not have love, you are just background noise in God's ears. Jesus said you must take up YOUR cross daily and follow Him. - Horizontal religion. Jesus said, "if you love me you will keep My commandments" Horizontal religion." In the parable of the good samaritan, God wants his people to the good samaritans in their world - horizontal religion. The interesting thing about joining vertical religion with horizontal religion is the it makes a cross.
Well GHW, it seems to me if you are declaring a universal christian creed, you would want to recognize your competition. The oldest recognized creed is the Apostle's Creed of the 2nd -5th Century. Nicene Creed 4th century. Athenanasian Creed 5th century, Chalcedonian Creed 5th century. Book of Concord - Lutheran. Westminster, The 39 Articles and the London Baptist Confession..
Perhaps if you contrasted your creed to these creeds it would be helpful to see where your's stands by comparison.
While you are at it, please indicate what Jesus meant when He said as recorded in John 17 Jesus was praying for those who follow Him. "Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one." His prayer for believers to follow, "“I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.
Jesus made it clear that his true disciples would not be known for their disparate theologies, their prosperity, their knowledge of the bible, their church attendance, the elegance of their unique take on the "truth" or their political allegiances. "By this will everyone know you are my disciples, if you love one another."
So it seems to me that in our ever evolving personal take on Christian "Truth" we probably should start with the validation of our discipleship - that we love one another. So what does that priority imply about all divisive creeds, confessions and self-righteous but divisive bible interpretations? Are we still in that "Just love and trust God" reality or does surrender, conversion, humility, gentleness, kindness, service and love have any priority at all?
Perhaps if you contrasted your creed to these creeds it would be helpful to see where your's stands by comparison.
While you are at it, please indicate what Jesus meant when He said as recorded in John 17 Jesus was praying for those who follow Him. "Holy Father, keep them safe in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one." His prayer for believers to follow, "“I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.
Jesus made it clear that his true disciples would not be known for their disparate theologies, their prosperity, their knowledge of the bible, their church attendance, the elegance of their unique take on the "truth" or their political allegiances. "By this will everyone know you are my disciples, if you love one another."
So it seems to me that in our ever evolving personal take on Christian "Truth" we probably should start with the validation of our discipleship - that we love one another. So what does that priority imply about all divisive creeds, confessions and self-righteous but divisive bible interpretations? Are we still in that "Just love and trust God" reality or does surrender, conversion, humility, gentleness, kindness, service and love have any priority at all?
I can’t see how you derived that boldened evaluation of my post from what I wrote.
The rest of your post I agree with.
I have compared my version with those versions and attempted to improve upon them based upon GW.
I hope you agree that my summary of the biblical/Christian creed is both concise and complete.
BTW, note that confessions go beyond the creed/essential kerygma to include didachaic doctrines.
I just noticed your next post, which asked what Jesus meant in John 17 when He prayed that those who follow Him would "be one just as we are one", including those who believed in him through the testimony of his first disciples--"that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you--that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me, adding "The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one – I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me."
Then you answered your question by saying that Christians would be known by their love for one another.
I agree.
Then you elaborated by saying that our ever-evolving personal take on Christian "Truth" probably should start with the validation of our discipleship - that we love one another, and then asking, "So what does that priority imply about all divisive creeds, confessions and self-righteous but divisive bible interpretations? Are we still in that "Just love and trust God" reality or does surrender, conversion, humility, gentleness, kindness, service and love have any priority at all?"
My answer is that both truth and love should have priority and should not be divorced. We should speak the truth in love,
and what you just shared exemplifies this by referring to the Truth/Gospel and then to its fruit/love (cf. Eh. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:6, Rom. 5:5).
Recently I was prompted to discern the insight that learning Truth requires loving Truth per 2Thes. 2:10-13,
so there is a chicken-egg dynamic involved because of God enabling MFW/IF (cf. Deut. 30:19, Matt. 23:37, 13:14-15).
I agree that is what they meant but what true followers of God that are Spirit filled don't use the Bible as the only true source before using other sources if they happen to be available?
What I see on here is many using only Scripture but then claiming those who they're debating that they don't understand what it means.
The lack of understanding is not the bible's fault but the traditions of men. Jesus warned us about this, it is still the case today. there is one bible, one truth, yet we have today thousands of christian denominations. Everything has to be verified against the word of God or else if is indeed traditions of men.
“Blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:28 ASV)
“Blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.” (Luke 11:28 ASV)
More interesting facts. The 'Jews' wanted to see a sign, the disciples believed the scriptures.
John 2
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
And this is scary, Did Jesus not 'commit himself unto them because they believed in miracles and not the scriptures?
John 8
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
And here they argued with Jesus and didn't want to continue in the word.
John 8
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Today, the greeks (NT) seek after wisdom, they love education and love to quote men who write books, etc...
1 Corinthians 1
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
John 2
17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
And this is scary, Did Jesus not 'commit himself unto them because they believed in miracles and not the scriptures?
John 8
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
And here they argued with Jesus and didn't want to continue in the word.
John 8
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Today, the greeks (NT) seek after wisdom, they love education and love to quote men who write books, etc...
1 Corinthians 1
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
The Didache was more about 3 subjects. It is most often dated to the mid 1st Century.
The "Two Ways" (Ethics)The Way of Life: Instructs the faithful to love God, love their neighbor, and follow the Golden Rule. It heavily promotes moral living, prohibiting murder (including abortion and infanticide), adultery, theft, and magic.The Way of Death: Warns against a lifestyle of wickedness, which includes greed, deceit, lawlessness, and the persecution of the good.
Rituals and Sacraments - Baptism: Dictates that baptism should ideally be performed in "living" (running, cold) water. If unavailable, pouring water over the head three times in the name of the Trinity is permitted. Fasting and Prayer: Instructs Christians to fast on Wednesdays and Fridays (to distinguish them from Jewish hypocrites who fasted on Mondays and Thursdays). It records the earliest complete written text of the Lord's Prayer. The Eucharist: Provides early prayers for the communal meal (thanksgiving), and warns that it should only be shared among those who are baptized.
Church Organization - Traveling vs. Local Leaders: Describes a transitional era of church leadership. It outlines how to support and test itinerant "apostles and prophets," while strictly warning against false teachers who ask for money. (if an traveling evangelist stays more than one day, do not feed or pay him.) Local Leadership: Instructs local communities to appoint their own respected bishops and deacons.
Always be ready for the 2nd coming of Jesus
Sola Scriptura
Scripture cannot be broken. we can forever rely on The POWER & PROMISES of THE G-D OF Jacob, & HIS Promises.
All Creation Behold
The enemy certainly wants us to have a fleshly discernment of Scripture, when only a Spiritual Discernment will help us.
Think on most Words in the Bible, and realize they have a fleshly or Spiritual definition, like the Word believe. A Spiritual definition ( in the POWER of The HOLY SPIRIT of course) will draw you toward total surrender to JESUS (life.love).
While a fleshly definition will keep the focus centred on the devils carnival (self, death) no HOLY SPIRIT required, or a drowning of G-D'S FIRE in your Spirit.
for a quick, yet profound example ( not totally flushed out)
sin can drown your believe, and faith works by Love
I actually was drawn to this website this day with the question on my mind, how can so many seemingly strong Christians believe in eternal security?, and so many of us believe that Salvation is Eternal, just not ones possession of it! whom you serve is your master
The enemy has one group of us very deceived to say the least, and I am not trying to create controversy here by my statement! yet how can it not (flesh)? oh ya, Love will prevent this
have a blessed day