It's the relationship stupid

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Sirk

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We were designed for relationship, with God and with each other. And not the under the thumb kind of relationship but a relationship built on humility and willing the best for another. About bringing another into the light by first entering into their darkness and accepting them as they are. This is what Jesus did. He was the first psychiatrist, He knew people, he studied them and what made them tick. Philippians 2 says that he gave himself no advantage, so that he would endure temptation as equally as you and I do. He did everything perfectly so that we might learn from him in this life to strive for His perfection. It's about relationship with Jesus and living as though he lives through you. That is the narrow path.
 
And praise God for the help of the Holy Spirit that allows us to be conformed to the image of Christ!
 
That's good stuff. Christ is our example. I understand about accepting people and Jesus will accept you just as you are no doubt and the church should accept as well, But often times the church has things the will tolerate and things the will not. The bible does give reference to this matter and says to try to restore the brother, but if he will not listen then to turn him over to Satan. Because, Satan will put him through hell and most times the person will realize there fault and repent and ask God for His mercy. Thank God for His mercy, with out were all sunk. The problem is that every christian goes through this and more times than we think. Our faith must be focused on the work of the cross. When our faith is placed in anything else, the Holy Spirit who walks with us and talks with us a long life's narrow way, backs off and we find our self on our own and we can't handle it. Sad to say many give up at this point. Saying this is just not for me or I can't do it and their right you can't do it. The only way to do it is to have faith exclusively in the cross and the Helper will help. Every thing we receive from God comes through the cross and nothing else.
 
We are here for Gods good pleasure. He is pleased and blessed when we humbly come to the mercy seat accept His grace. He is equally pleased and blessed when we extend grace to others. Grace is unmerited favor and it's pretty plain that it's required of us. I realize that the bickering over doctrine the falling away of believers and the hypocrisy of us all will not cease until His return but in the interest of truth I'm just trying to speak to the simplicity of the gospel.
 
Sirk said:
We were designed for relationship, with God and with each other. And not the under the thumb kind of relationship but a relationship built on humility and willing the best for another. About bringing another into the light by first entering into their darkness and accepting them as they are. This is what Jesus did. He was the first psychiatrist, He knew people, he studied them and what made them tick. Philippians 2 says that he gave himself no advantage, so that he would endure temptation as equally as you and I do. He did everything perfectly so that we might learn from him in this life to strive for His perfection. It's about relationship with Jesus and living as though he lives through you. That is the narrow path.
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Sometimes it seems people are totally into their rules and not into a personal relationship with the Lord. We forget the great commandment:

[34] But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad'ducees, they came together.
[35] And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
[36] "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment." Matt 22:34-38 RSV
 
Yes we are to be kind, and too many times when we argue doctrine we leave that behind, that is true. But at the same time we cannot be a welcome mat. It's a fine line and we must be lead by the Spirit. Some people need a sharp reproach and others need a gentile kind hand. That is a gift of the Spirit called discernment. And word spoken in due season, how good it is.
 
Did you hear about the young man who turned up at a church dressed in check shirt, jeans, cowboy hat and boots.

Every other man was dressed in a black suit, black tie, black shoes and white shirt.

After the meeting an Elder greeted him and said that if he was going to come again and he was most welcome to, he would have to do something about his attire.

Next week he turned up and had forgot about the attire bit.

When the Elder spoke to him after the meeting, he suggested he pray and ask the Lord as to how he should dress for meetings, so he said he would do that.

Next week he turned up wearing his usual attire, and after the meeting the Elder spoke to him again and asked him if he had asked the Lord about appropriate attire.

"Yes sir, I did do that" was the reply.

"And what was his reply" asked the Elder.

He said, "I can't help you son as I have never been invited to that meeting."
 
Well I know of a church that did this to this guy. I worked with him and talked to him about Jesus and he went to a certain church and got saved and enjoyed the church so much that he asked to join it. They wanted to see his financial statement and after reviewing it they said that he did not make enough money to become a member at this time. To this day he will not talk about God or have anything to do with it. Sad, sad, sad. I would hate to be that church when we stand before Christ.
 
Kerry said:
Well I know of a church that did this to this guy. I worked with him and talked to him about Jesus and he went to a certain church and got saved and enjoyed the church so much that he asked to join it. They wanted to see his financial statement and after reviewing it they said that he did not make enough money to become a member at this time. To this day he will not talk about God or have anything to do with it. Sad, sad, sad. I would hate to be that church when we stand before Christ.
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"Ye cannot serve both God and mammon."
I guess we know which one this "church" served.
 
There is a book out there and which I have a copy of with the title "Why do Christians shoot the wounded."

Having been a christian for 60 years, I cannot tell you how many wounded christians have been shot. A lot of it boils down to image. A church has a particular image it has cultivated and it doesn't want anyone to spoil that image so if a person is likely to do that because they won't or cannot conform, out comes the spiritual gun.

The church that I was saved in promoted a young newcomer to the Deaconate, which was the men who ran the place. He was in his late 20s and all the others were over 50. he had shown a depth of spirituality which they liked.

About a year later he said in conversation that if Jesus came back again now, he would go down to the local pub and meet with people. Within a week he was no longer a Deacon.

I have worked out that you can tell who is welcome in a church by the building. If the church meets in a ramshackle old building anyone is welcome. if they meet in a modern fancy building the middle class are welcome. if they meet in cathedrals and such like, the high class are welcome. This is generally speaking of course, but it is not far out.

My wife used to teach at a high class private school where you found Brigadiers, Colonels, and university Profs teaching. The staff and their husbands/wives were having drinks and canapés after the school play and my wife introduced me to one of the Brigadiers who was quite jovial and his wife. We chit chatted and then his wife asked me what I did.

I could have said a Transport Manager as I managed the truck I drove, to ingratiate myself with her but I said I was a truck driver. She looked at me and said "Oh" and then walked away.

My wife and I had a bit of a snigger behind her back. I was obviously not the right image for her.

I have been at the receiving end of the spiritual shotgun a few times because I am autistic so I am a WYSIWYG but some Christians do not like that. They prefer christians who are what they want them to be but I have worked through the issues I face so I rarely get upset.
 
About 10 years ago I was a founding member of a new church in the town and when they found out that I had four degrees and had been in full time ministry for several years, they were keen to get me involved.

When it came to formalising the assembly they brought out the mission statement, the vision statement and the doctrinal statement and they wanted everyone to sign up to it. I told them I could not do that because there was one of their doctrines that I was still grappling with. I said I didn't disagree with it but I wasn't a 100% sure and until I was I didn't think it was right to sign anything.

Next thing I know I was removed from all ministry and told I was not allowed to do anything until I signed. They enforced this rigidly so as I prefer to stand on the promises not sit on the premises, I exited myself from the church.

P.S. That was 10 years ago. Last week I was reading a book by Charles Colson and the doctrine I was unsure of suddenly fell into place. Thankyou Charles. That means I would now be acceptable to this church, but as they seem to only want the perfect, I felt it was best to stay away as I would mess things up for them.
 
You may or may not agree with this but I have a distinct impression that most churches are in the business of knowing about God, not knowing him. They are pushing the God business all the time and most people leave the meeting the same as they arrived at it and being the leader of a church is a job, not a ministry.

The verse that says we are being changed from glory to glory is a foreign concept to most Christians. One of my favourite sayings is "Change is here to stay." If we are not changing we are not growing. I cannot see how christians can grow if what they do is the same week in week out; year in and year out; and century in and century out which most churches do.

I have read many stories of churches where the leader is there not to rock the boat. The leadership is there first and foremost to keep the funds rolling in to finance expensive buildings, and the whole ministry is there to present an image to the world.

This may just be me but when Robert Schuller was on TV in his crystal cathedral, the most notable thing about the service was the building which seemed to say "Look at me." All it needed was a disagreement between Schuller and his son and the next thing you know it is sold to the catholic church and Schuller and his church are out on their ear.

I am thankful to God that he gave me clear instructions to give the church a miss for two years. I did this and in that time I got to Know God, not about him. People used to say "but you won't grow if you don't fellowship at church." My reply was "I won't grow if I do fellowship at church."

As a result, whatever I am going through things and I have gone through a few things since then, I know that God is crazy about me and when satan tries to trip me up I turn round and say to him "Sorry satan, God is crazy about me, so up yours."
 
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mustaphadrink said:
You may or may not agree with this but I have a distinct impression that most churches are in the business of knowing about God, not knowing him. They are pushing the God business all the time and most people leave the meeting the same as they arrived at it and being the leader of a church is a job, not a ministry.

The verse that says we are being changed from glory to glory is a foreign concept to most Christians. One of my favourite sayings is "Change is here to stay." If we are not changing we are not growing. I cannot see how christians can grow if what they do is the same week in week out; year in and year out; and century in and century out which most churches do.

I have read many stories of churches where the leader is there not to rock the boat. The leadership is there first and foremost to keep the funds rolling in to finance expensive buildings, and the whole ministry is there to present an image to the world.

This may just be me but when Robert Schuller was on TV in his crystal cathedral, the most notable thing about the service was the building which seemed to say "Look at me." All it needed was a disagreement between Schuller and his son and the next thing you know it is sold to the catholic church and Schuller and his church are out on their ear.

I am thankful to God that he gave me clear instructions to give the church a miss for two years. I did this and in that time I got to Know God, not about him. People used to say "but you won't grow if you don't fellowship at church." My reply was "I won't grow if I do fellowship at church."

As a result, whatever I am going through things and I have gone through a few things since then, I know that God is crazy about me and when satan tries to trip me up I turn round and say to him "Sorry satan, God is crazy about me, so up yours."
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I couldn't agree more. I've volunteered at my church since 2004. I have seem many people come and go and have been privy to much of the politics that goes on behind the scenes....from people misrepresenting themselves for a higher salary etc. the one thing I have always tried to be is a voice of reason from within the "ministry" vortex. It truly does chew people up and spit them out. I learn a little more each time fresh blood is introduced into the mix.

I love my church family and as imperfect as they are, my pastor feeds me truth and it is my home. However, my real ministry is my blended family and it has revealed to me the maggot infested corpse I am without Jesus.
 
as I said many times, If your looking for something perfect, don't look in the mirror and don't look at a church.
 
I just came from an appointment with my doctor today. I am perfectly well, but getting weaker every day. We went over my life situation, all my friends have passed away but one and she is very ill. My daughter can't handle that I am not the vital mother who was always at her side and hardly speaks to me, so I am isolated. My church family is busy. I am a Christian and have joy in the Lord. I do not dwell on "ain't it awful", but my doctor says it is not enough, humans need people.

My doctor explained that humans are simply not built to live like this. God created us for relationships, and our modern life is not built for the way Christ designed us. I am to be a person my family goes to for love, and my family is to have time for me. Without that, we become ill.

I will be given help by organizations paid to do this for people. I should go into assisted living, and pay for it there.

It is a far cry from the loving support of each other, the group gathering for the good of all in the group, that reflects Christ.
 
Kerry said:
as I said many times, If your looking for something perfect, don't look in the mirror and don't look at a church.
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I don't know about anyone else but I consider this to be a rather trite cliché which you don't find in scripture and a bit of a slight towards God if you believe what the scripture does say....

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame.

I take this to mean that God is proud of weak people, proud of foolish people because they are the ones that he can use the most. So be proud of your imperfections and failings because God is. Hand them over to God and you will be amazed what he can do through you.

In fact, I have a feeling that the more imperfect you are the more useful to God you are because you develop this mentality that if God doesn't do it, it doesn't get done.

So let me rephrase this cliché. If you are looking for something imperfect, look in the mirror and rejoice and look at the true church because in God's sight it is perfect.
 
mustaphadrink said:
I don't know about anyone else but I consider this to be a rather trite cliché which you don't find in scripture and a bit of a slight towards God if you believe what the scripture does say....

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame.

I take this to mean that God is proud of weak people, proud of foolish people because they are the ones that he can use the most. So be proud of your imperfections and failings because God is. Hand them over to God and you will be amazed what he can do through you.

In fact, I have a feeling that the more imperfect you are the more useful to God you are because you develop this mentality that if God doesn't do it, it doesn't get done.

So let me rephrase this cliché. If you are looking for something imperfect, look in the mirror and rejoice and look at the true church because in God's sight it is perfect.
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God does not waste anything and we were all created for His good pleasure. Amen. Rejoice in your imperfections for thru the cross they are made perfect! When we approach the mercy seat in the humility of knowing we are not worthy, God is blessed and covers us with grace.
 
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