Jesus (bible) Vs Isa (quran)

IbnSyed · Nov 9, 2014

Brother Bowman, the stuff that you have presented here is mind boggling. It took me over an hour to just go through it and check the references. Wow !!! the implications of this is just unimaginable. But there are a few doubts that I have. I am writing this in utmost sincerely and just want to know how to answer if someone asks me. So I request you to please address these very menial doubts.

1. I've been taught since childhood that there was a physical person called Muhammad. There is also history recorded about him and his doings in the Hadith. All that he did, battles he won and lost, etc etc. So how do you say that this person is different from the one mentioned in the Quran.
2. If it is different, then why is this person equated with the quranic one and how did this come about?
3. What of the compilation of the Quran by uthman - the third caliph? It was my understanding (ofcourse form various sources such as my teachers and other books, etc) that the original quran was somehow corrupted or changed due to his burning of all the manuscripts.
4. If all the places that mention about Muhammad in fact talk about Jesus, then why are there passages that talk about Jesus separately?
5. Why has the Islamic world made a global goal right from the start to hide this fact and mis interpret all these verses and to what end? Why did they want to make this into a new religion?
6. I also have doubts as to these verses -
33:40 – Maa kana Muhammadun – says "not was Muhammad", the Maa there says that it is Not, or negative. This is one thing that I did not understand.

48:28 : Huda does it mean sacrifice or guidance? I’ve only heard right guidance or something similar to that. None of the translations talk about it as being “sacrifice”
“deen” is usually faith or religion and not debt, as far as my understanding is concerned.

Oh Brother, when I read all that you have written, I feel that I am getting thirsty for more. I am not an expert as to the Arabic language. So kindly bear with me if I am asking silly questions and do explain. I wish that we could speak face to face to get deeper into this. You have kindled my interest and please keep it going. I want to go as deep as possible. I know it is going to be difficult with elementary grammatical knowledge. But I am a fast learner. Thanks for taking you time to post so much. Thank you so very much. Blessings bro. Can't wait to hear from you again.

Bowman · Nov 9, 2014

IbnSyed said:

I really appreciate your enthusiasm, brother...there are not many of your type out there!

Personally, I think the entire discovery is more than worthy of several books to be written at some time....what do you think?

I never dwelt that much on the Islamic 'Muhammad', as the literature supposedly associated with him is fragmented and sketchy to begin with.

My main concern has always been what does scripture state...?

Scripture is how we know Jesus, right? Not from some external sources.

Not all muslims believe in the ahadith to begin with....so why not stick with something that ALL muslims MUST believe in....their Koran...?

Besides, there are several areas of physical evidence which all point to the same conclusion.

Since coins and Dome of the rock inscriptions pre-date the oldest extant Koran – it is prudent to see how the term 'Muhammad' was used during this time.

The critical link between the coins and that of the inscriptions of the inner octagon, in the Dome of the Rock, is that they both follow the same 'Muhammad' formula.

The inner octagon Dome of the Rock inscriptions (representing Islam’s oldest shrine), amazingly revolve around Jesus Christ. So much so, that not only do they directly call-out His name, but his attributes as well…i.e.

‘Muhammad is the servant of God and His Messenger’
‘Your Messenger and Your servant Jesus
The Truth
Prophet
Messiah
Word
Spirit
He has certainly been his Son (yakoona lahu waladun)

Even the same Islamic formula (peace be upon him p.b.u.h), which we see all the time in reference to 'Muhammad', is also applied directly to Jesus in these writings.

It is interesting to note that almost the entirety of the inner octagon wall was converted into Koranic scripture.

There simply cannot be any reasonable grounds for doubt in this matter.

The original 'Muhammad' was merely one, in a very, very, very long list of Arabic epithets applied directly to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Bowman · Nov 9, 2014

IbnSyed said:

It is a little known fact that the term 'Muhammad' was never a proper name at the time that the Koran was written.

It was a participle...combining adjective and verb...meaning 'praised one'...and, Koranically, was applied four separate times to the Biblical Jesus Christ.

The oldest recording of the term 'Muhammad' appears in the inscriptions of the inner octagon wall, inside the Dome of the Rock - in which pre-Koranic verses all talk about Jesus Christ - including the term 'Muhammad' directed squarely at Jesus Christ!

It was only later that these early inscriptions were copied into what we now have come to know as the Koran (i.e. the collection).

Further still, the participle 'Muhammad' was made into a proper name after the Koran and Dome inscriptions took place....and became folklore in islam....now there are millions of 'Muhammads' running around!

There are many variants of the Koran in existence....but, this is not talked about by followers of islam, as this would immediately lampoon one of their biggest polemics against Christianity...i.e. 'perfect preservation'...

I personally exegete the traditional Arabic of the Koran, just for consistency...

Probably for the same reason that Jesus is known by various epithets in the Holy Bible, as well.

He is called 'Son of Man'...'Son of God'...'Messenger'...'Prophet'....'Lord'....'God'...'Savior', etc, etc, etc...

The authors of the Koran copied likewise...

Bowman · Nov 9, 2014

IbnSyed said:

Ignorance.

Ignorance of their scriptures.

For the same reason, we can ask why modern-day Jews are unable to see that The Son was spoken of in their Tanak, even though Christians share the same OT material as do the Jews.

'Ma' does not always negate...

ما= 'ma'

'ma' definition:

Conjunctive pronoun. That; which; that which; whatsoever; what; as; as much; in such a manner as; as much as; as for as; any kind; when; how. Does not, as a rule, refer to reasonable things, but instances to the contrary sometimes occur. It is one of those particles, which, in conditional propositions, govern the verb in the conditional mood; it is frequently a mere expletive. It is also a negative adverb, Not; in general it denies a circumstance either present, or of past, but little remote from the present; it governs the attribute in the accusative, thus it is a negative particle when placed before the perfect as in 53.2; or before a pronoun as in 68.2; or before an demonstrative noun as in 12.31. The particle, when joined to the perfect, denies the past; when joined to the imperfect, the present.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3016
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 2, p. 300
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 523 - 524
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 135 - 136

Bowman · Nov 9, 2014

IbnSyed said:

هدى= “huda”

“huda” definition:

Verb; noun. A victim for sacrifice, an offering.A present; i.e. a thing sent to another in token of courtesy or honor.What one brings as an offering to mekkeh, or to Kaabeh, or to the Haram, consisting of camels or other beasts, namely kine or sheep or goats, to be sacrificed, and of goods or commodities.One who is entitled to respect, or honor, or protection.A way, course, method, mode, or manner, of acting, or conduct, or proceeding, or the like; and a good way, etc.: and calm, or placid, deportment; or calm ness, or placidity, of deportment.Conduct, mode of life; manners.

بالهدى= “bi” + “al” + “huda” = “bialhuda” = on account of the sacrifice

It comes from the root “hada”, which means he directed him, or guided him, to the way; directed him aright; or caused him to take, or follow, a right way, or course or direction. To lead in the right way, direct aright; to follow a right course.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3042
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 588 - 589
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 153
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, pp. 203 - 204

دين= “deeni”

“deeni” definition:

A debt; such as the price of a thing sold (which the purchaser is under an obligation to pay); and a dowry (which one engages to pay): and a loan, or the like; or it is (a debt) such as an appointed time of falling due. A debt incurred by a thing taken unjustly, injuriously, or by violence; and it signifies also anything that is not present (anything to be paid, or done, at a future time; requital; recompense; judgment; authority; management; reckoning; faith; custom; condition; affair; religious laws; sect; victory; government; power; obedience. Death, because it is a debt which everyone must pay when (the angel who is) the demander of its payment comes. A debt, that which one owes.

ودين= “wa” + “deeni” = “wadeeni” = and debt

الدين= “al” + “deeni” = “alddeeni” = the debt

It comes from the root “dana” (dal-ya-nun), which means he was, or became, obedient; he obeyed: this is the primary signification: or, as some say, the primary signification is the following; namely, he was, or became, abased and submissive: he was, or became, abased and enslaved and obedient. Also he was, or became, disobedient; he disobeyed: and he was, or became, mighty, potent, powerful, or strong; or high, or elevated, in rank, condition, or state; noble, honorable, glorious, or illustrious.To be indebted, to judge, profess the true faith.Thus, it bears significations contrary to each other.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume three, pp. 942 - 945
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 185
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 50 - 51
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 70

Bowman · Nov 9, 2014

IbnSyed said:

Oh Brother, when I read all that you have written, I feel that I am getting thirsty for more. I am not an expert as to the Arabic language. So kindly bear with me if I am asking silly questions and do explain. I wish that we could speak face to face to get deeper into this. You have kindled my interest and please keep it going. I want to go as deep as possible. I know it is going to be difficult with elementary grammatical knowledge. But I am a fast learner. Thanks for taking you time to post so much. Thank you so very much. Blessings bro. Can't wait to hear from you again.

Not a problem.....

IbnSyed · Nov 10, 2014

Oh Brother, this is just amazing ! I have no words to express, how I am feeling right now. This will now help me to share with Muslims more effectively. Yes, I am certain that you have to put all this in a book or make it a series of books to keep the audience interested and plz do it quickly. I would definitely want to buy one. I've been sharing with Muslims for 20+ years and have encountered countless objections. Especially from my own family members - my family disowned me, my dad chased me on the roads in my country with a Machete, and sent me out from his inheritance, rest of my family members called me a " curse" and a "Kafir" - all because I chose to follow Jesus. How I wish that I knew this stuff when I was persecuted for 3+ years, I could have explained all this to my family. Anyway, brother, thank you so much for sharing. Also please keep it coming. I would like to hear more about this and on the same lines.
Just a few questions again. plz bear with me -
1. The translation, the way you have translated is so different from all other translations that I have or have seen online. Why have the Muslim scholars not even consid ered a word that could be translated otherwise. They all seem to "uniform" while yours seems to "stand along" - Why? Have they been deliberate in translating it incorrectly, if so, what would they gain because of it?
2. What about numerous passages that talk about violence, killing, Jihad, etc. Are they not the reason for the rise of major terror groups in the world? How do we explain that in the light of Jesus being mentioned in the Quran explicitly.
3. What about the foundational chapter of the unity of allah - Surat al Ikhlas, - it says, Lam yalid, wa lam yulad - He is neither begotten nor begets. ? How do we explain that?

Plz bear with me for all these questions. As I keep reading your stuff, my questions seem to be increasing. I just wish that I would ask you face to face so that we could have a very long discussion. Thank you so much bro for taking your time to write all this for me. Blessings bro keep up the good work. You are making a difference. plz don't feel that you are alone in this venture, - We as a family are praying for you and your work and your research. May it bring lots and lots of fruit for His Kingdom.

Bowman · Nov 10, 2014

IbnSyed said:

You are pretty special to have persevered after all that you have been through!

I admire that...

The reason that my rendering is different is because I can back it up with exegesis.

No other English rendering out there can do that....most don't even correspond to any known tafsir.

We must remember that Arabic is a highly corrupted language, and the original word meanings have changed drastically over time -that is why the Koran had to be written down - to try and stem that corruption tide.

Koranic Arabic was also originally written without any diacritical markings on the words...these were artificially added later as a way to make sense and alter the meaning of the word....that is where lexicons come into the picture...to uncover the most likely ORIGINAL meaning...

Bowman · Nov 10, 2014

IbnSyed said:

Most of the 'violent' passages of the Koran come from the Holy Bible....and are mis-interpreted...

>75% of the Koran was copied from the Biblical Book of Revelation, alone.....and, we know that there are some pretty 'violent' passages in that book...

Sura 112 is, without a doubt, the most commonly used chapter by Muslims as representing their position for denial of Jesus Christ being the Son.

Sura 112 can be approached in two different ways.

Understanding the verb tenses

The first being that the verbs employed in this chapter are in the imperfect tense (i.e. incomplete action). Thus, there is absolutely no denial of a begotten Son in the past….only that no more will be begotten here on out.

Here is the classic Arabic definition for the states (tenses) of the verb:

The temporal forms of the Arabic verb are but two in number, the one expressing a finished act, one that is done and completed in relation to other acts (the perfect); the other an unfinished act, one that is just commencing or in progress (the imperfect).

Reference:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 51

Observe exactly how the classic understanding of the verb tenses applies to what we are told in sura 112…

لم يلد ولم يولد

Lam yalid walam yooladu

112.3 He begets not, and he is not begotten.

يلد = “yalid”

“yalid” definition:

Imperfect tense, 3rd person, singular jussive. He begets.To bring forth, or beget offspring.

It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely a car-hole), brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring. He begot a child, or young one, etc; to beget, give birth, to be born, offspring, a child, a son.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 620 - 621

The same verse again…

لم يلد ولم يولد

Lam yalid walam yooladu

112.3 He begets not, and he is not begotten.

يولد = “yooladu”

“yooladu” definition:

Passive imperfect tense, 3rd person, masculine singular, jussive. He is begotten.

It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely a car-hole), brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring. He begot a child, or young one, etc; to beget, give birth, to be born, offspring, a child, a son.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 620 - 621

The same verse once again…

لم يلد ولم يولد

Lam yalid walam yooladu

112.3 He begets not, and he is not begotten.

لم = “lam”

“lam” definition:

Negative particle giving to the present the sense of the perfect. Not.When prefixed to the aorist, governs it in the conditional, and generally gives it a past signification; gives to the aorist the same value in point of time, as the preterite would have had if the preposition had been affirmative.With an aorist following, it is often to be rendered in English by the preterperfect.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3013
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 517
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 133

It is true that “lam” can give an indication of the perfect.

This cannot be denied.

However, it does not have to be rendered this way per the classic definitions…as in each definition, it clearly mandates that it is “generally”, or “often” rendered in this manner.

There is never the disclaimer that it must be rendered this way.

Not once.

In fact, rendering it in the perfect forces 4.171 (which plainly states that Jesus is the Son) into contradiction with 112.3 – thus, it is highly unlikely that “lam”, as used in sura 112, denies the past.

This is the bottom line regarding verb tenses in sura 112:

• Lam “yalid” (he begets not)… this proclamation is an unfinished act, one that is just commencing or in progress.i.e. it does not deny that he had a Son in the past – only, from this moment onward, there will be no more

• Lam “yooladu” (he is not begotten)… this proclamation is an unfinished act, one that is just commencing or in progress.i.e. it does not deny that he had a Son in the past – only, from this moment onward, there will be no more

Bowman · Nov 10, 2014

(Cont.)...

“Allah” the idol

A second and more appealing interpretation for this chapter comes to us in the second ayah, as thus…

الله الصمد

Allahu alssamadu

112.2 " The erecting of allah."

Observe the key term used only this one time in the Koran…

صمد = “samadu”

“samadu” definition:

Masculine singular noun. Elevated ground: or elevated and rugged ground, not so high as to be a mountain: or hard, firm, or tough, ground: or a narrow, rugged, and low part of a mountain, producing trees.With the article “al”, an epithet applied to God.A lord; because one repairs, betakes himself, or has recourse, to him in exigencies; or, when applied to God, because affairs are stayed, or rested upon Him; or a person to whom one repairs, betakes himself, or has recourse, in exigencies; or signifies a lord to whom obedience is rendered, without whom no affair is accomplished: or one to whom lordship ultimately pertains; or a lord whose lordship has attained its utmost point or degree; in which sense it is not applicable to God: or the Being that continues, or continues forever for ever, after his creatures have perished: or the Creator of everything, of whom nothing is independent, and whose unity everything indicates: or one who takes no nourishment, or food: also high, or elevated; applied to anything: a man above whom is no one: a man who neither thirsts nor hungers in war.A Lord, one to whom reference is made in matters of importance; as an adjective it means sublime, everlasting.Solid: not hollow; in which sense it may not be applied to God.A people having no trade, or occupation, nor anything by means of which they may live.

الصمد = “al” + “samadu” = “alssamadu” = the setting up, or erecting, a thing

It comes from the root “samada” (sad-miim-dal), which means he tended, repaired, betook himself, or directed himself or his course or aim, to, or towards, him, or it; or endeavored to reach, or attain, or obtain, him, or it; or had recourse to him, or it. He pointed towards it.Set up, erect a thing, adorn, wish, repair, strike.To wish to approach any one.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume four, pp. 1726 - 1727
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 321 - 322
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p.86
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 111

Even a casual study of the term “alssamadu”, being applied directly to the Koranic “allah”, is disturbing to say the least.

The term itself obviously emanates from pagan idol worship.

Look at the root definition:

• He directed himself towards it
• He pointed towards it.
• Set up, erect a thing

All these things speak of an idol that was worshiped as deity.

The term itself also speaks of an idol:

• Solid; not hollow
• Applied to anything
• A lord whose lordship has attained its utmost point or degree
• Elevated ground

A solid idol that has been placed on elevated ground and is worshiped due to the fact that it has attained its utmost point or degree.

Thus, if “allah” was a statue, as this ayah clearly indicates, then how could he ever beget a Son?

IbnSyed · Nov 11, 2014

Thank you so much Brother. The grammatical part was a bit difficult but I had to take it slowly to understand it. It is so amazing that there is so much in there. I am sorry but every time you write, you seem to kindle questions in my mind. Please bear with me and thank you so much for keeping on answering me. Every time I log on to this site, I open with anticipation expecting your post. Thank you so much.

Ok the question is...
1. I've heard that Allah was a pre islamic moon god that was worshiped by the Arabs. So if allah is a statue, or an idol - how indeed could it beget. But also if allah is an idol indeed, then how can the quran contain so many references to our God, & Jesus?
2. You said, most of it is from Revelation - how is this possible? and what parts.
3. La ilah ill allah - the word "ilah" is the same word in Aramaic for the Elohim God, that Jesus called out from the cross, "Elah" - So Islam categorically denies that there is no Elah (God of the Bible ) except Allah - So is it not a religion from another source and not that of God?

Kindly explain this please.

Bowman · Nov 11, 2014

IbnSyed said:

Absolutely, no problem whatsoever, brother...feel free to ask anything that comes to mind, and I will do my best to provide a reply...

Most Muslims sincerely believe that they worship the same God as that described in the pages of the Holy Bible. On the surface, and to the uninformed, this may appear to be the case, however, upon careful investigation; nothing could be farther from the truth.

The authors who penned the Koranic text tell us who “allah” really is, and he is definitely not the God of the Bible.

Not even close.

Word etymology is the basic first-premise and first-defense against Islamic ignorance – and there is absolutely no link of the Koranic “allah” to that of Yahweh.

In fact, the term “allah” shares the same exact root word as that of pagan Arab idol worshipers.

We must remember that the Koranic god “allah” can never be equated to the true God of the Holy Bible.

They are not the same….and it is pure blaspheme to claim that they are.

Just remember Triple “A”…

Satan, the Devil, the great serpent, the destroyer, the deceiver, the liar…in Hebrew, “Abaddon”….in Greek, “Apollyn”…and, in Arabic, “Allah”.

Knowing that the Koranic god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…

الحمد لله رب العلمين

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.

And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan according to the Holy Bible….we can see how it is that the Koranic god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…

قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?

Muslims who worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.

The last two chapters of the Koran are literally a plea for help for release from the god 'allah'...

All that being considered, then why did the authors of the Koran attempt to align a false god to the deity of Jesus Christ?

Bowman · Nov 11, 2014

IbnSyed said:

The most humorous thing about the Koran being complied from Biblical Book of Revelation material is that ALL muslims that I have encountered vehemently oppose this Biblical Book as being preposterous!

Anyway...where to begin....here is one small sample of an entire chapter of the Koran wholesale paraphrased from Revelation...

81.1 When the sun shall be folded up like a scroll and so darkened. (Announces Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

81.2 And when the stars fall upon the Earth. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

81.3 And when the mountains were made to move. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

81.4 And when the ten and ten abandoned the woman. (The First Beast)

81.5And when the beasts were gathered. (The Second Death)

81.6 And when the sea and river shall be filled with fire and dried up.
(The Second Trumpet Blast)

81.7 And when the souls shall be united with those whom it has followed. (The Marriage of the Lamb)

81.8 And when she is questioned about the sound. (The Fifth Trumpet Blast)

81.9 On account of which tail she was killed. (The Sixth Trumpet Blast)

81.10 And when the books will be spread out. (The Book of Judgment)

81.11 And when the heaven shall be unveiled. (Jesus’ opening of the Sixth Seal)

81.12 And when the fire of Hell is set ablaze. (The Second Death)

81.13 And when Paradise is brought near. (The New Jerusalem descends)

81.14 I know, that such a one was, or is, going forth, a man that which she has presented.
(Announces The Lamb coming forth)

81.15 So I swear on account of the concealed stars. (Swears by Jesus’ opening of the Seventh Seal)

81.16 The ships, the stars. (Jesus’ opening of the Seventh Seal)

81.17 And/by the night when it departed. (Swears by Jesus’ opening of the Seventh Seal)

81.18 And/by the dawn when it became extended. (Swears by Jesus’ opening of the Seventh Seal)

81.19 Certainly His Word is a Holy messenger. (Jesus, the Word of God)

81.20 Lord of power in the presence and possession of the throne, the established one.
(Jesus as God upon the Throne)

81.21 Obeyed one there, Amen. (Jesus as God upon the Throne)

81.22 And your companion is not possessed with a devil. (John, the Companion of Jesus Christ)

81.23 And certainly he saw him on account of the heavens, the perspicuous. (John sees the Mighty Angel)

81.24 And he is not against the Mystery on account of its tenaciousness. (The Mystery of God)

81.25 And he is not on account of the expelled serpent’s saying. (The Accuser is thrown down)

81.26 Then where you may take away? (Jesus is caught up to the Throne)

81.27 Indeed he is except a warning to the Jinn and of mankind. (A warning from John)

81.28 For whosoever desires from you that be righteous. (The Water of Life)

81.29 And you will not, except that he wills allah, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind. (The Lord of the Abyss)

Bowman · Nov 12, 2014

IbnSyed said:

What Jesus called-out from the cross was the Hebrew from Psalm 22, of which, is from the OT, and about Him being crucified upon the cross.

This phrase has been used as a polemic from islam, and, in fact, does absolutely nothing to promote their stance - especially the crucifixion-denying muslims...

Human · Nov 12, 2014

Bowman, praise means warm approval and appreciation. Muslims do praise Muhammed, but they worship Allah. There's a difference. Your method seems to be to start out with the conclusion that the Quran actually says the exact opposite of what it says, then compartmentalize words and then reach extraordinary lengths to make it all fit with your predetermined conclusion.

Any decent Arabic scholar would tear this 'exegesis' to shreds.

Human · Nov 12, 2014

IbnSyed said:

Thank you so much Brother. The grammatical part was a bit difficult but I had to take it slowly to understand it. It is so amazing that there is so much in there. I am sorry but every time you write, you seem to kindle questions in my mind. Please bear with me and thank you so much for keeping on answering me. Every time I log on to this site, I open with anticipation expecting your post. Thank you so much.

Ok the question is...
1. I've heard that Allah was a pre islamic moon god that was worshiped by the Arabs. So if allah is a statue, or an idol - how indeed could it beget. But also if allah is an idol indeed, then how can the quran contain so many references to our God, & Jesus?
2. You said, most of it is from Revelation - how is this possible? and what parts.
3. La ilah ill allah - the word "ilah" is the same word in Aramaic for the Elohim God, that Jesus called out from the cross, "Elah" - So Islam categorically denies that there is no Elah (God of the Bible ) except Allah - So is it not a religion from another source and not that of God?

Kindly explain this please.

What the Koran is saying is that Allah and Elah are the same. There is no 'Elah' but 'Allah'. In other words, there is only one God. There has only ever been one God, and whether you call God 'Father', or 'Elah', or 'God', it doesn't matter. It's only possible for there to be one.

Bowman · Nov 12, 2014

Human said:

Not in Koranic Arabic...which is directed towards deity in every, single instance...

Muslims mention their god 'allah' in the very same breath as 'Muhammad'.

If they only knew what they were saying....but they do not...

Not.

I actually spent the first several years of my research assuming that what I had heard was true....but, as I dug deeper, I discovered that the Arabic was painting an entirely different picture...it was at this point that I learned how deep the myths actually were...

I have not encountered one who could in nearly 20 years.

Bring 'em on....

Human · Nov 12, 2014

Bowman said:

Not in Koranic Arabic...which is directed towards deity in every, single instance...

Muslims mention their god 'allah' in the very same breath as 'Muhammad'.

If they only knew what they were saying....but they do not...

Not.

I actually spent the first several years of my research assuming that what I had heard was true....but, as I dug deeper, I discovered that the Arabic was painting an entirely different picture...it was at this point that I learned how deep the myths actually were...

I have not encountered one who could in nearly 20 years.

Bring 'em on....

Your research? Where did you get your degree in Arabic?

Bowman · Nov 12, 2014

Human said:

Hecklers, like yourself, are self-debasing.

Come back when you can bring something to the table...

IbnSyed · Nov 12, 2014

Dear Bowman, Great, Great stuff. Took me a lot of time to go through that and the other posts too !! The Surah 81 was just amazing. I never tho't that the Quran could ever talk about the Bible let alone the book of Revelation. Every time I had attempted to speak to my Muslim friends and relatives, any thing from the book of revelation, they would just scrap it. But I have something to talk about now. I think I will memorize the references cf with the biblical ones. Thank you so much. Please write some more and whatever extra that you feel to let me know. But here is a question for you. 1. Rabbal Aalameen – I was under the impression that it meant Master of the worlds or universe. Surah 26 :22, 23 also has the same word where it is explained by Moses. So how does it refer to the Jinn world. Could you plz explain? if possible explain the grammar and the exegesis of that word. 2. You made a question - "All that being considered, then why did the authors of the Koran attempt to align a false god to the deity of Jesus Christ?" - so what would be the answer to this. 3. I have shared Jesus from the Quran using the same principle as Paul in Athens "altar to the unknown god" and then lead people to the Bible. But many Christians that I have encountered are so opposed to using this approach. But after hearing from you, I feel that I could still more explain Jesus from the Quran. how would you answer our people who oppose 4. In what other ways do you think, we could share Jesus effectively from the quran to Muslims so that they would not raise the normal questions.

Jesus (bible) Vs Isa (quran)

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