Jesus: Both Son and Father?
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No lucy, the text of John 10:30 literally reads in the Greek, "I and the Father, We are one." It is true they are one in purpose but the immediate context is that the Father and the Son are one in nauture or essence. The Jews understood what Jesus mean't because at vs31 it says, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him."
Why? At vs 32 Jesus says, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of thme are you stoneing Me? Vs33, "The Jews answered Him, For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; (what was the blasphemy lucy?) because You being a man, make Yourself God." Btw, you don't have to know Greek to understand what's going on, just read the context. Does that make sense to you lucy? :eek;
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
This is what I have understood from other scholars, that the word implies not a numeric value but a unity of ontology.
I was talking about the Greek in John 1. It is not necessary to read Greek to understand the context in John 10.
In John 10, the context of 'one' is in relationship to Jesus and the Father as the shepherd of the flock. The flock obviously represents the people of God. The shepherd is represented in the following ways. Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd” to whom the flock belongs and that no one can snatch them out of his hand. He then says that they also belong to the Father and no one can snatch them out of his hand. He closes this illustration then with the statement, “I and the Father are one.” The question then is one what? Contextually, they are one shepherd, one owner of the flock. Always allow the context to define its own use of language. We learn from a number of O.T. passages like Psalms 23 and Ezekiel 34 that the Shepherd of Israel is Jehovah. The Jews to whom Jesus spoke did not miss the implication of Jesus' illustration.
I didn't think you did; but there are CC members trying to make a case for that and I am anticipating THEM
Fortress of Faith had a really good teaching recently on the compound unity of the Godhead. Their focus is on reaching Muslims, who of course believe we are polytheistic and commit shirk because we acknowledge Jesus as God, when Scripture teaches in several places that the Godhead is a compound. (FoF also aspires to educate Christians about Islam.)
I think this spells it out quite clearly:
John 8:17 “Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 “I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.”
John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”
There is not indication of singularity here as far as I can see
John 8:17 “Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 “I am He who testifies about Myself, and the Father who sent Me testifies about Me.”
John 8:19 So they were saying to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also.”
There is not indication of singularity here as far as I can see
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This reeks of modalism. The Son, the Eternal Word, is NOT the Father. He is the Son, the second person of the Godhead.
I'd bet dollars to donuts, if your moniker is what I think it is, is that you're of the Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ, and they hold to the Oneness doctrine.
You're probably debating a dude who became an apostle after a few easy payments of $200.
From one of the websites...
Modalism teaches that there is one God, and He manifests Himself as either the Father, OR the Son, OR the Holy Spirit.
They're heretics to advocate and teach that.
Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ - Beliefs
Modalism teaches that there is one God, and He manifests Himself as either the Father, OR the Son, OR the Holy Spirit.
They're heretics to advocate and teach that.
Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ - Beliefs
Thank you bluto for putting that oneness character in his place. I mean: with apostolic in his username, what were we supposed to think. Then he named thread after his oneness thinking. I was getting ready to call him on it, when I came upon your post.
