Jesus Came To Fulfill Not To Destroy

[Rondonmon]

What was the law that came 430 years later?

What was the law that was before the 430 years?

Sorry, about the spelling, but when I get finished with a post on most sites, I have something to do and thus I hit post, but only on this site can you not edit after 5 minutes, I have zero understanding why. ANYWAY........

The Law was added because of Sin, but once the Promised Seed (Jesus) has come w no longer have need of the Law because the Law can not save us, it can only point out sin, well, we know via the Holy Spirit living in us when we sin, he convicts us on the spot. If a person can sin and there is no conviction the Holy Spirit has left them. It seems that Israel needed to be told matter of factly what sin was, the Holy Spirit was not given at that time unto the world.

We now have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rondonmon]

Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

You missed the point. Just like Males and Females are ONE IN Christ but still DIFFERENT SEXES, Jews and Gentiles are indeed ONE in Christ but still DIFFERENT. So Paul is not emphasizing the point that the Church has taken the place of the Jews calling, God says His calling is without repentance, he is emphasizing that Gentiles (Galatians) do not have to become Jew like in their observances of God in order to make it to Heaven.

If you read the whole post you see I said WE ARE ONE because we come BY FAITH ALONE, but Paul is not speaking about that here, he's speaking about just the opposite thing, Galatians trying to be like the Jews in order to make Heaven bu OBSERVING the Laws which can not save us. Thus he tells them, HEY, BY FAITH WE ARE ALL THE SAME, both Male and Female, Jew and Greek (Gentile).

To be honest, I do not see how people can't get this, males and females are NOT ONE and the same and thus neither is the Jew and Gentile on this earth, the ONLY WAY we are one and the same is how we come unto Jesus Christ/God via Salvation, by FAITH ALONE. Thus, just like we still have males and females, we still have Jews and Gentiles. Both Jews and Gentiles can only come unto God BY FAITH ALONE. Both males and females can only come unto God BY FAITH ALONE. (that was Pauls' point) A lot of people miss his point and say, but, but, but, God says the Jews and Gentiles are both one, no He is not saying that at all, God is pointing out that both can only come unto Salvation in the exact same manner, by FATH ALONE, not by the Law. Likewise, men and women who REMAIN men and women can also only come unto God by FAITH ALONE !!

Any time you see anyone emphasizing the Jews are no longer a priority with God and point to this verse, just understand Satan has TWISTED ITS MEANING with a lot of people who do not have the common sense to understand that males and females are not ONE thus Jews and Gentiles are also not ONE, it's about our Salvation being the SAME, thus those Galatians were FOOLISH to try and gain Salvation via the old Jewish practices of serving the Law. We are all ONE in that we come unto God in ONE MANNER, Jews are still Jews and Gentiles are still Gentiles, just like men are still men and women still women.

 

[Grandpa]

There is righteousness in keeping the Law or this would not be written in scripture!

Deut. 6:25

"And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us."

The problem with keeping the Law is that fallen man cannot keep it! As you said, if it were possible we would be judged on whether we did or not and there would be no need for Christ to have sacrificed Himself.

So how did they obey God in keeping these commandments? They did it the exact same way we do it today! By faith in Jesus Christ!

They didn't know His name was Jesus, they didn't know when He was coming, but they knew the innocent animal being killed for their sins represented the coming Messiah. How do I know they knew? Because we know that Moses knew and no doubt Moses told them.

Moses wrote of Abraham, "and he (Abraham) believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness." This is "justification by faith in Jesus Christ" that Paul wrote of in his epistles. Moses knew this, "justification by faith" some 1500 years before Paul wrote it for us!

The people under the Law at the time of Moses life knew exactly what the Sacrificial System meant. As the centuries passed by, the Jews lost their way with the Law and abused it, no longer understanding what their fathers before them knew.

By the time of Christ the religious leaders of Israel had turned the 10 Commandments into over 600 commandments. Worshiping the Law and making it their God rather than the Saviour represented in the Sacrificial System who would pay the sin debt for man.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[Grandpa]

I didn't know you was around at the time Christ came, I wasn't, that's why I have to read the Bible. Paul says in Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. In other words if there is no law there is no sin. Sin is not imputed or no blame can be accredited to any person when there is no law. Now, let’s see what Sin is according to the Bible in I John 3:4 it states, "whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." So if the law was nailed to the cross that would mean its okay to use the Lords name in vain, put other gods before HIM, make graven images and bow before them, pollute the Sabbath day, steal, commit murder, commit adultery and bear false witness. If all these things are okay to commit, then we might as well throw the Bible out the back door and do what ever feels good to us.

You already do all those things.

Time to re-read the bible and get a new plan.

 

[Charlie24]

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Do you have an explanation for that, Grandpa? What do you think that means?

 

[Grandpa]

It brought death because of the inability to keep it! This is where grace through faith comes in.

It still brings death because of the same inability to keep it.

Just because you are a Christian it doesn't give you any ability to look to the Law and decide to keep your favorites.

Otherwise, the whole book of Galatians is just silliness.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Grandpa]

Do you have an explanation for that, Grandpa? What do you think that means?

The Law cannot give you righteousness.

Ever.

All it can ever give you is condemnation and death.


Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

 

[Charlie24]

It still brings death because of the same inability to keep it.

Just because you are a Christian it doesn't give you any ability to look to the Law and decide to keep your favorites.

Otherwise, the whole book of Galatians is just silliness.

Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Who here has said they look to the Law? I'm wondering if you have even been reading along in this discussion of Law now covering several threads.

 

[Grandpa]

Who here has said they look to the Law? I'm wondering if you have even been reading along in this discussion of Law now covering several threads.

You just said there was righteousness in keeping the law.

I just showed you scripture that says there isn't.

 

[Charlie24]

The Law cannot give you righteousness.

Ever.

All it can ever give you is condemnation and death.


Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

That would make Paul a liar in Rom. 8:3-4!

Of course you will never accept that Paul said it, even though its plain as day!

But I do agree the Law brings forth death but only because man can't keep it.

 

[Charlie24]

You just said there was righteousness in keeping the law.

I just showed you scripture that says there isn't.

Paul plainly told us in Rom. 8:3-4 that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us?

But that can't be can it, Grandpa? That would mean you are wrong and that's not going to happen is it?

 

[Charlie24]

You just said there was righteousness in keeping the law.

I just showed you scripture that says there isn't.

You have no idea why Paul said the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us, do you?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The lake of fire awaits those who violate the law if they never avail themselves of the forgiveness that Christ offers; so there is a penalty there for the one who does not believe in Jesus.

For the one who does believe in Jesus, he is forgiven of past, present, and future sins; therefore the law does not apply to him in the same way that it used to, in condemnation.

What is morally right is Jesus' re-definition of the law where there is any dispute on the matter.

But again, Moses' law is as concerning the regulation of government as concerning sins; and, because God is merciful, He does not institute punishments for someone who divorces his wife, for example.

There is surely a higher law that the one who desires to obey God will follow; the one who desires to obey God will subject himself to a law that is more strict than the law that is laid upon him by the government of Israel.

You have to realize that the law of Moses has to do partially with the way that the government treats sinners.

Apart from the way that the government treats sinners, Jesus showed us a moral relevance that we are to abide by because we are Christians.

no the law sentences all sinners to death , that’s why Jesus died to fulfill that sentence upon all by the law. It has zero absolutely nothing to do with the lake of fire it ends when the sinner is out to death that’s the end of the law

we aren’t going to be judged by Moses law this is the word we will be judged by

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

again it’s not moses who’s going to do this

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again moses is not the judge Jesus is

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

again we aren’t going to Moses judgement seat that was what the levites and Pharisees held Christians have one to answer to one word the gospel that Jesus spoke

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the word Jesus spoke is the requirement of God Moses law never once spoke of after death because it ends at death

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

…Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s almost like you have never read the law and are just insisting it’s something it isn’t have you ever read the law of
Moses ? If so you would know that when a sinner is executed that’s the last touch of the law upon them not a single word is spoken in the law after the sinner dies the law has now been fulfilled upon them they sinned and died that’s it

but the gospel begins from the perspective that all have already sinned and all death by the letter of Moses law . the gospel is about resurrecting the person after they have died with Christ through baptism to the law

 

[Charlie24]

You have no idea why Paul said the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us, do you?

Of course you don't, and don't want to know! That's why you are in the dark concerning this scripture.

And believe you me, you have misunderstood other doctrine because of it!

 

[Jocund]

You missed the point. Just like Males and Females are ONE IN Christ but still DIFFERENT SEXES, Jews and Gentiles are indeed ONE in Christ but still DIFFERENT. So Paul is not emphasizing the point that the Church has taken the place of the Jews calling, God says His calling is without repentance, he is emphasizing that Gentiles (Galatians) do not have to become Jew like in their observances of God in order to make it to Heaven.

If you read the whole post you see I said WE ARE ONE because we come BY FAITH ALONE, but Paul is not speaking about that here, he's speaking about just the opposite thing, Galatians trying to be like the Jews in order to make Heaven bu OBSERVING the Laws which can not save us. Thus he tells them, HEY, BY FAITH WE ARE ALL THE SAME, both Male and Female, Jew and Greek (Gentile).

To be honest, I do not see how people can't get this, males and females are NOT ONE and the same and thus neither is the Jew and Gentile on this earth, the ONLY WAY we are one and the same is how we come unto Jesus Christ/God via Salvation, by FAITH ALONE. Thus, just like we still have males and females, we still have Jews and Gentiles. Both Jews and Gentiles can only come unto God BY FAITH ALONE. Both males and females can only come unto God BY FAITH ALONE. (that was Pauls' point) A lot of people miss his point and say, but, but, but, God says the Jews and Gentiles are both one, no He is not saying that at all, God is pointing out that both can only come unto Salvation in the exact same manner, by FATH ALONE, not by the Law. Likewise, men and women who REMAIN men and women can also only come unto God by FAITH ALONE !!

Any time you see anyone emphasizing the Jews are no longer a priority with God and point to this verse, just understand Satan has TWISTED ITS MEANING with a lot of people who do not have the common sense to understand that males and females are not ONE thus Jews and Gentiles are also not ONE, it's about our Salvation being the SAME, thus those Galatians were FOOLISH to try and gain Salvation via the old Jewish practices of serving the Law. We are all ONE in that we come unto God in ONE MANNER, Jews are still Jews and Gentiles are still Gentiles, just like men are still men and women still women.

Timothy was an example of someone that was both Jew and Gentile.

Those in Christ are in Christ without distinction. There is no higher standing for Jews or Gentiles. Old traditions are carried forward to honour father and mother in many cases and that is acceptable. I agree with your point that by its nature scripture intended Christianity to be multicultural or open to Christian multiculturalism. A Greek may carry forward their traditions, a Jew may carry forward their traditions, a barbarian may carry forward their traditions, but not at the expense of the conditions of the covenant of Christ. And when Christians marry fellow Christians from different traditions we can find interesting fusions of traditions. After enough intermixing we eventually see evaporation of distinctions. Jewish identity was important to the recipe of the modern Christian, Greek identity was important to the recipe of the modern Christian, barbarian identity was important to the recipe of the modern Christian. Christianity is a representation of many cultures all one in Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Thes. 5:3

" And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Here Paul is speaking of the ultimate sanctification at the "the coming of Christ" which is at the resurrection.

Actually, it is unto the coming of Christ; which means, from the moment that you are wholly sanctified unto the moment of Christ's coming.

 

[justbyfaith]

Phil. 3:20-21

"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."

Here Paul is telling us we will be transformed into the likeness of Christ.

I Cor. 15:51-53

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

This is our ultimate sanctification when we are made immortal as Christ is immortal, we will be perfect as He is perfect.

And this is not speaking of "ultimate sanctification" but of glorification.

Sanctification, by definition, does not eradicate sin from the flesh.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course you don't, and don't want to know! That's why you are in the dark concerning this scripture.

And believe you me, you have misunderstood other doctrine because of it!

who is this directed too?

 

[justbyfaith]

Your nit the one who understands bro
the law
Condemns you where you stand if you have not been washed in the blood

Can you be washed in the blood if you are still living a lifestyle of sin? Where you are a "worker / doer of iniquity" (Matthew 7:23, Matthew 13:41-42)?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Law was added because of Sin, but once the Promised Seed (Jesus) has come w no longer have need of the Law because the Law can not save us, it can only point out sin, well, we know via the Holy Spirit living in us when we sin, he convicts us on the spot.

And He utilizes the law to do it (Romans 3:20).