Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

[livingbygrace]

John 14, 7-10
John 10:30
John 14:11
Matthew 27:43
John 17:11
Plain and simple!

Lets make it simple. Please give me one plain scripture where Christ commanded anyone to believve he was the one true God Himself

 

[Red33]

Lets make it simple. Please give me one plain scripture where Christ commanded anyone to believve he was the one true God Himself

If LBG does not believe that Jesus Christ is the one true God, then he is in unbelief. He just does not believe the same Christ that we believe, so it must be another Christ. Leave him to his unbelief of who the true and living God is that came here in the likeness of sinful flesh to condemn sin in His own flesh. Let LBG worship God without the Son. Let him serve a God of his own understanding. That is what the world does and anyone that denies that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist.

 

[Tigger2]

Hi Pneuma,


I'm not evading your questions, I have debated here at length before answering the same old questions. You have your heart set that God is not triune, and that is up to you to do so.

I have agve you on another thread regarding John 17 and the personal pronouns that are both in the Greek and English text, and you cannot say as you tried to, that it is just 'Language'. For it is by language that we can understand that God Almighty Himself chose to reveal Himself and His work in creation and History and the future.

Anyhow, Something for you to think about.

Why did God create man?

was God Lonely and he wanted someone to relate to, have a relationship with?

God is love, each person in the trinity love one another in perfect harmony, they are co equal, co eternal yet, the Father sends the Son, the son Sends the Holy Spirit.

Man has the ability and desire to be in loving relations, thats with friends, wives/husbands, because we were created to be like God, a relational being.

Anyhow, We could go on and on and on, I believe from Scripture that God is triune, I Know we will never be able to know the depths and complexities of the Godhead, but we can gleam what God has revealed. I know that without God being a perfect relation being with each person of the trinity, I would not desire relationships in the same way.

I cannot force you to believe what you do not want neither do I desire too. You have said you were once a Trinitarian, but I also know there are many 'oneness' believers who have seen the real glory of God.

I humbly pray that you too, se the great Glory of the Godhead in God's glorious relational love.

Phil

I have a simple question & would love a simple answer. If the Holy Spirit is a person why do the Father & Son not speak to him? Or him speak to them?. There are many examples of the Father & Son speaking directly to each other but not even 1 with the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is a person why don't they speak to him??

 

[freeIndeeed]

Lets make it simple. Please give me one plain scripture where Christ commanded anyone to believve he was the one true God Himself

You obviously know there is not a verse that specifically says that. But all the evidence has been laid out before you, yet you can not or wil not see it.

 

[livingbygrace]

If LBG does not believe that Jesus Christ is the one true God, then he is in unbelief. He just does not believe the same Christ that we believe, so it must be another Christ. Leave him to his unbelief of who the true and living God is that came here in the likeness of sinful flesh to condemn sin in His own flesh. Let LBG worship God without the Son. Let him serve a God of his own understanding. That is what the world does and anyone that denies that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist.

Well at least I answered your questions Red, I note as usual you answered none of mine.


So let us get this straight. A belief that to you is a neccessity to believe to have eternal life was not commanded of anyone by Christ when he walked this earth.

And you cannot give me EVEN ONE scriptiure that states we must believe Christ is God Himself to have eterrnal life

Therefore to you a belief that eternal life hinges on is not even written in the Bible.

Doesn't that seem just a little strange to you?

I guess not, because your bottom line is the teaching of man, not what is clearely written in the Bible

And no LBG does not believe Christ is the one true God, as Christ stated, only the Father is the one true God.

John said
No-one has seen God, but John lived with Christ for three years on earth

Paul said

When it says that everything nhas been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST
1 Cor 15:27

And the Father said

Your throne O God will last forever and ever
And righteousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousnerss and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointed you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

Red

As you believe the name of the one true God is Christ can you confirm you are oneness now and not Ttrinitarian, just to clear up any confusion

 

[livingbygrace]

Your throne O God will last forever and ever
And righteousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousnerss and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointed you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9
quote]

Just to add

I guess to you God set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of joy, which must mean that God was firstly equal with his companions

You do have a strange belief

 

[Tigger2]

The truth is, people are being condemned and lied about because they stand on the truth of the plain words of scripture, not the teaching of man.
They are being persecuted and smeared because they dare to believe what the Bible plainly says.
What they write is deliberately distorted and some even lie about them in order to smear them

Why does this happen? The reason is plain, because people who believe they have the truth of the literal word and are proud of this and want to be looked to as having great scriptural knowledge and understanding have no scriptural answers to what is being put before them. So all they can do is lash out and smear and be untruthful concerning people who stand on the plain words of scripture, believing this may deflect from the obvious lack of ability they have to scripturally defend their opinions

And the reason is down to the pride and vanity of man

Yet I will not use the words that others have eagerly used concerning me. But nothing has changed in two thousand years, for human nature wil never change.

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself,. but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of truth and there is nothing false about him
John7:19

No-one who reflected the above in their life would wish to smear, speak untruthfully concerning someone who stood on plain scripture, nor would they lash out when they cannot defend themselves and their beliefs with scripture, for they would understand the truth because God will. always give truth to those who seek his glory and not their own
But the proud and arrogant will find that their pride and arrogance is a barrier to them understanding the heart of the Gospel, they are left reaming off scripture from head knowledge that is not driven by pure motives, and when they cannot defend scripturally what is put to them they will always react by lashing out, for they are driven by pride and vanity, not a desire firstly to seek glory for the God who loved them enough to send his only begotten son to die for them on the cross

Amen Brother! I may not agree 100 % with you but I have seen nothing but scripture & true Christian love from you. Unlike others who give opinions & sling mud & make allegations with no foundation because you have made them doubt their man made knowledge.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I have a simple question & would love a simple answer. If the Holy Spirit is a person why do the Father & Son not speak to him? Or him speak to them?. There are many examples of the Father & Son speaking directly to each other but not even 1 with the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is a person why don't they speak to him??

Yep. Nobody wants to address Pneumatological issues, just Christology. The poor Holy Spirit is odd-"person"-out in all this, and Trinitatians are again the main perpetrators.

The Holy Spirit doesn't have a mind (nous) or will (thelema), and never interacts relationally as do the Father and Son.

Why doesn't the Holy Spirit-person get to sit in the throne?

Where IS the Holy Spirit-person in eternity?

Etc. .......

 

[livingbygrace]

Amen Brother! I may not agree 100 % with you but I have seen nothing but scripture & true Christian love from you. Unlike others who give opinions & sling mud & make allegations with no foundation because you have made them doubt their man made knowledge.

Thank you for your kind words. But I do not always speak as I should as I am painfully aware

The truth is you do not have to agree with me 100%

Christ was plain as to how we had to see him to have eternal life

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him shall not persih but have everlasting life
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn it but to save the world through him
Whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only son
John 3:16-18

Anyone who believes Christ is the son of God, he came to earth and died for our sins and if we repent of our sin and ask Christ into our lives as Lord and Saviour and believes this has been done is saved

A famous Evangelist once said that their dearest wish was that people of all denominations would unite around that truth

Man of course in his 'wisdom' will always make his own demands as to what is neccessary to believe to have eternal life, but Christ was plain as to what belief was needed. Once we put mans words before Christ's words we are in deep trouble

God Bless

 

[Red33]

Amen Brother! I may not agree 100 % with you but I have seen nothing but scripture & true Christian love from you. Unlike others who give opinions & sling mud & make allegations with no foundation because you have made them doubt their man made knowledge.

You have not been here long enough to see the other side of what has been said. Most of it was lost when the site shut down briefly. Mind your own business and keep your nose out of things you do not understand. You want to associate yourself with a deceitful liar go right ahead, just be careful that you do not cross him and his doctrinal beliefs, because you will not hear the end of it. He just might start a thread to turn others against you because you violate his understanding of the truth. This man had called me every name in the book but you do not know that and he certainly would not tell you either. This man does not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and does not believe that he was the living God, it that not enough to tell you what you need to know?

 

[livingbygrace]

You have not been here long enough to see the other side of what has been said. Most of it was lost when the site shut down briefly. Mind your own business and keep your nose out of things you do not understand. You want to associate yourself with a deceitful liar go right ahead, just be careful that you do not cross him and his doctrinal beliefs, because you will not hear the end of it. He just might start a thread to turn others against you because you violate his understanding of the truth. This man had called me every name in the book but you do not know that and he certainly would not tell you either. This man does not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and does not believe that he was the living God, it that not enough to tell you what you need to know?

Unfortunately Red that post says much about your heart and I truly wish it did not.

And is honesty not vital for the Christian?

Have I called you every name in the book? No I have not.

Have I told you
you are condemned
possessed by the spirit of antichrist
you can have no eternal life

No I haven't

And why must you be so rude and offensive to Tigger? He has done nothing to you that I am aware of

 

[wakeup]

A certain ruler asked him
Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
Why do you call me good, Jesus answered. No-one is good but God alone
Luke 18:18&19

Would you say that Christ is claiming here to be the one true God?

Therefore God exlted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
To the Glory of God the Father

So if Christ is the one true God, did God therefore exalt Himself to the highest place and give Himself a name that was above every name so he may be glorified?

But about the son he says
Your throne O'God will last forever and ever
And rightewousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointede you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So, if Christ is the one true God, is it true that because God loved righteousness and hated wickedness he set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of joy?

And the one true God(God Himself) must refer to someone as My God

The Lord said to my Lord
Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

So if Christ is the one true God, did God say to himself that he was to sit at his own right hand until he had put all his enemies under his own feet?

If you receiver authority from someone, isn't it true that the person who gives authority is greater than than the person who receives authority from them?

very good bro,i dont think they will answer your questions,they will just go round and round,try to shake you off.
''wakeup''.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You have not been here long enough to see the other side of what has been said. Most of it was lost when the site shut down briefly. Mind your own business and keep your nose out of things you do not understand. You want to associate yourself with a deceitful liar go right ahead, just be careful that you do not cross him and his doctrinal beliefs, because you will not hear the end of it. He just might start a thread to turn others against you because you violate his understanding of the truth. This man had called me every name in the book but you do not know that and he certainly would not tell you either. This man does not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and does not believe that he was the living God, it that not enough to tell you what you need to know?

Wow.... :-(

 

[silverwind]

Lets make it simple. Please give me one plain scripture where Christ commanded anyone to believve he was the one true God Himself

Mark 2:5-11—“When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?... [Jesus] said unto them, But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house”

The scribes’ theology was correct: “Who can forgive sins but God only?” Jesus didn’t disagree with their conclusion; rather, through the miraculous healing He proved that He in fact was God and had the authority to forgive sins. I think this should clear it up for you, lbg

 

[Dutch41]

]If you are not prepared to accept the KJV of the Bible which is well reputed we are unable to have a debate, please let me know if you will not accept the words written in it
In 1 Cor 8:6 Paul was backing up Christ's words in John 17:3 and John in 1 John 4:12, are all of these wrong according to your Greek septuaginta?

First: it isn’t my Septuagint, second.. the most quotes are coming from the Septuagint, that is used in the OT.. Well, the KJV is a translation just as the Leeser ( Jewish translation OT) the Statenvertaling (Dutch) Naardense Vertaling (Dutch) the Lutheran (English, German, Dutch). And of course we can always look at the orginal text.. In Hebrew and Greek.. if you only are able to use your KJ or NIV, don’t accuse me of unable to debate.



yet to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things, and we by Him.
All hemin heis theos ho pater ex hou ta panta kai hemeis eis auto kai heis kurius iesous christos die hou ta panta kai hemeis die auto.


Soo what is Paul telling: one God, heis theos, ho pater and one Lord heis kurious iesous christos So if that is true.. it isn’t possible that there are two Gods and two Lords.. I hope you agree with me. Because the part of the sentence is the same.. If Paul made a different between God of Kurios.. than we got some problem.. Because the NT said: that Father is the Lord.
.
Than this sentence is impossible: Luc 1:32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David,


Why?? Because there is one Lord said Paul remember!!! Ohh and if you want to say… well when you read, you can read there is only one Lord Jesus Christ, that is written in 1Cor 8:6.. So there isn’t a problem that the God is kurios is too.. than it isn’t a problem that Jesus Christ is God too..

I wont accept plain words. Please, I am trying not to laugh here. How about this PLAIN verse of scripture
The Father is greater than I John 14:28
So, do you accept that plain verse or to use your words, will you do magic with the words?
You clearly do not accept much plainly written scripture but accuse me of playing magic with words-OK!

Well it is allowed to laugh. Because you made really funny moves to proof..

Yes.. magic.. So you agree that the Word is Christ? Don’t play magic and read what there is written: The WORD WAS GOD.. and that all was in the beginning with God. AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH. When you accuse people that they have to read the Scripture you have to do it too.

Christ is the WORD OF GOD, so who is doing magic?
In the begining was the word(Christ) and the word was with/besides God and the word(itself) was God, He was with God in the Begining
where is the magic please?
Do you deny Christ is the word of God?

What is your plan saved? You know that I don’t denie that.. are you going to try to made funny moves again? Where did I say the Christ isn’t the Word.. don’t do magic again doesn’t work here.

Do you deny Christ spoke the words the Father gave him?
The only contentious words in John 1:1 are the word was God. Well scripture is clear you know, Christ spoke the words the Father gave him. The Father in effect spoke through the son
But I know you believe that in the begining God Himself was with God Himself

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12
So it is strange that you believe John is saying that Christ is God Himself, but at the same time he clearly states no-one has seen God.
So do we dismiss John's Gospel because you obviously believe it is full of contradictions?

Yes nobody seen God.. Isaiah didn’t and Ezekiel didn’t.. Jesus didn’t. Well in your only blind mind it is contradiction..

Put the magic away and read it again..

Ohh Adam and Eve believed it and would have. And wasn’t it the lie from the satan that he gave the thought at A&E, that they are equal when they eat from the ‘apple’. Here again.. you are doing eisegese.. I can’t found in Genesis 3 complete that they WHERE EQUAL at God.. What A&E things is not what God think..

For God doth know that in the day you eat thereof then your eyes shall be opened AND YE SHALL BNE AS GODS, knowing good and evil
Gen 3:5

Yes.. a lie.. from who?? Satan.. they know good and evil, but they were equal. Tell me is satan equal? No? You fall in the same trap as A&E..

Well I go by the kjv or the NIV. BVerse one speaks of God. Verse two speaks of thespirit of God. Verse three speaks of God

I go back to the orginal translation.. et elohim(plural form from eloah)
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
And I will go to vs 26 And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

We can see here.. God is plural..

Of course.. when you are doing some magic with verses to proof you self. Using eiseges and accuse ther.

 

[Tigger2]

Yep. Nobody wants to address Pneumatological issues, just Christology. The poor Holy Spirit is odd-"person"-out in all this, and Trinitatians are again the main perpetrators.

The Holy Spirit doesn't have a mind (nous) or will (thelema), and never interacts relationally as do the Father and Son.

Why doesn't the Holy Spirit-person get to sit in the throne?

Where IS the Holy Spirit-person in eternity?

Etc. .......

This one question alone blows away the Trinity teachings. I have brought it up several times in the chat rooms only to be completely ignored most of the time. Every once in awhile someone will throw out a verse that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at all & I just wonder at the blindness of the masses with a saddened heart.

 

[Dutch41]

[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT] Try the Hebrew Bible

it said Elohiem..
and He is speaks in plural.. (see vs 26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
Now I am confused. Are we discussing Gen 1:1-3 or the plurality of Gen 1:26?

AS you mention plural I will take it Gen 1:26

This baffles me, Christ was with the Father from the begining, so what are you trying to prove here? That Chrtist existed with God in Genesis, you don't need to, I agree. And I will repeat. The Jews had all the OT scriptures written in HEBREW I believe. How many of them were expecting God Himself to come as their Messiah?[/quote]
The Berea did.. Paul did, the disciples did.. Maria did, David did, Salomo did.. Micah did, Zecharia did, Isaiah did. I don’t know what you want with this ‘strange’ question..

Now can you tell me please. Who was the God of Israel in the OT?



Again you made funny moves to proof your right.


And can you explain in your own words please

You believe that because God Himself loved righteousness and hated wickedness he set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of Joy.
Therefore God Himself cannot have been above his companions in the first place, so he must have been equal to them, yes?

You do have a strange idea of God, don't you!
Please note, I answered fully your questions, you basically skipped over nearly all mine and just replied with a bible verse or two..

Well I think I didn’t skip all your questions.. It is are the same answers sorry for that. You don’t know my idea of God. But fair enough. I will tell you about my view of the God of the Old Testament.




[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

 

[Tigger2]

Thank you for your kind words. But I do not always speak as I should as I am painfully aware

The truth is you do not have to agree with me 100%

Christ was plain as to how we had to see him to have eternal life

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him shall not persih but have everlasting life
For God did not send his son into the world to condemn it but to save the world through him
Whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only son
John 3:16-18

Anyone who believes Christ is the son of God, he came to earth and died for our sins and if we repent of our sin and ask Christ into our lives as Lord and Saviour and believes this has been done is saved

A famous Evangelist once said that their dearest wish was that people of all denominations would unite around that truth

Man of course in his 'wisdom' will always make his own demands as to what is neccessary to believe to have eternal life, but Christ was plain as to what belief was needed. Once we put mans words before Christ's words we are in deep trouble

God Bless

Amen!! I do believe that Jesus was God but not in the sense of the Trinitarians. Jesus came from God & when he over came the world God granted him all his authority & the Holy Spirit. Hard for me to put what's in my mind to print. Jesus had to go back to the Father first to be able to send the Comforter back to man WHY? I think it was at this point that the Father anointed him King of Kings & gave him all authority over the earth.

 

[Tigger2]

You have not been here long enough to see the other side of what has been said. Most of it was lost when the site shut down briefly. Mind your own business and keep your nose out of things you do not understand. You want to associate yourself with a deceitful liar go right ahead, just be careful that you do not cross him and his doctrinal beliefs, because you will not hear the end of it. He just might start a thread to turn others against you because you violate his understanding of the truth. This man had called me every name in the book but you do not know that and he certainly would not tell you either. This man does not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh and does not believe that he was the living God, it that not enough to tell you what you need to know?

Now that is one of the most hate filled things anyone has ever said to me since joining this site. I see absolutely no love of God in you & now feel sorry for you. May God the Father & his Son Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you!!!

 

[Dutch41]

FOR THIS IS WHAT THE LORD ALMIGHTY SAYS. After HE has honoured me and has SENT ME against the nations that have plundered you-for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-I will surely raise my hand against them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me
Zech 2:8&9
You are certainly reading that worongly
So, God is sending himself against the nations-yes?

Funny that you said that I read it so wrongly.. Because like I let you read earlier.. that is what is written.. But I will help you again..



8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts (who is speaking here? YHWH): "After the glory hath He (=YHWH) sent me (=YHWH)unto the nations which despoiled you, for he (=YHWH) that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His (=YHWH)eye.9 For behold, I (=YHWH) will shake Mine(=YHWH) hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants. And ye shall know that the LORD of hosts (the one who speaking now or called YHWH)hath sent me(= YHWH).10 "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for lo, I (=YHWH) come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee," saith the LORD =(YHWH).
Noo, I don’t think you want to see it..

In nature or position? Is a man greater than a woman?
Well maybe you can answer this then
You must believe that Christ has always been llower in position than the Father, but not in nature, therefore this must be how you explain Christ being subject to the Father. Therefore you must believe Christ has always been subject to the Father in position, but in nature he cannot be

Then why does Paul say that Christ WILL become subject to the Father in 1 Cor 15:28 when all dominion, power and authority has been defeated. In what way WILL Christ then become subject to the Father? According to your beief it cannot be in position for he always has been subject to the Father in position
And according to you it cannot be in nature, that is impossible
So in what way WILL Christ in the future become subject to God?

I think that your key word is subject, translated in Greek with hupo’tasso, The same word is used in for example Lc 2:51.. And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them. But His mother kept all these things in her heart.
Tell me, is the Marian and Joseph greater in position or in nature as Jesus.. Or shall we read 1Cor 14:34Let your women keep silence in the churches, for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience (hupo’tasso), as also saith the law.

Tell me again, is a woman a lower creation as a man? Can you say that? Can you say that a woman isn't a human?