Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Rondonmon]

And which beast of Revelation 13 uses miracles to deceive people?

And your point is what? Because Israel never accepts the Anti-Christ as their Messiah, as have been telling you for years. But nevertheless Jesus says they BOTH use wonders and deception, Satan their father is a liar after all.

Matt. 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Its not possible because Jesus FORETOLD them, see the very next verse.


25 Behold, I have told you before[hand].

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

So, Jesus has TOLD THEM, do not accept anyone accept THE ONE (Jesus) you see coming in the Eastern Skies. So, they know BEFOREHAND, because Jesus forewarned, they they can not be deceived. These who repented and thus fled Judea God protects, the other 2/3 the Anti-Christ will kill.

 

[Pablo2021]

​

Hello Rondonmon: (-: You have been telling us that the Beast's Image is placed in temple without The Two Witnessed having any prior knowledge of who Anti-Christ is; that is, until the Image shows up there. There are many people here that I know now that will be my witness that you have said these things. But of course you don't like me pointing out you error. Everybody you will notice that Rondonmon never Quotes me, because he never addressing any of my objections, but indicates me as saying thing entirely different than what I said, accusing me of saying things that were never said, and doing this regularly. But I'm OK with it, other than I will say this, that if you read what I say first; you will imediatly see what he is doing...​

Here Rondonmon I will say it in another way: You indicating that the Two Prophets were not having a clue until the Image was installed in the Temple is like saying Israel was not having any knowledge of their enemies; for instance, like Egypt, Assyria, Babyon, Medo-Persia, Greese, or Antient Rome; that is, never feeling a sense of danger until they were attacked? But What Did The Prophets Do Rondonmon? That's Right, The Prophets were always warning Israel long before they were attacked...

Irrefutable point made here by Friend, in indicating a most essential part of the work of a prophet: To warn God's people about their enemies.

 

[Rondonmon]

Irrefutable point made here by Friend, in indicating a most essential part of the work of a prophet: To warn God's people about their enemies.

Again, this looks like the Frick and Frack show. I destroyed his point. The Two-witnesses do not show up in the world until AFTER the Agreements are made, so he can NEVER be correct. I allowed him to paint himself in that corner. So, the Two-witnesses should WARN Israel/Jews etc. etc. even though they don't show up until almost 1260 days after the Agreements are made hey? This is what happens when people do not understand the scriptures, they go down rabbit holes, thus they get off-tracked on follow people like Herbert Armstrong who say England is the Lion, the United States is the Eagle, and Russia is the Bear, and even say the Roman Catholic Church is the Bast and the Pope is the False Prophet, which of course is just nonsensical stuff put out by the Church of God, a true cult.

 

[Friend]

Again, this looks like the Frick and Frack show. I destroyed his point. The Two-witnesses do not show up in the world until AFTER the Agreements are made, so he can NEVER be correct. I allowed him to paint himself in that corner. So, the Two-witnesses should WARN Israel/Jews etc. etc. even though they don't show up until almost 1260 days after the Agreements are made hey? This is what happens when people do not understand the scriptures, they go down rabbit holes, thus they get off-tracked on follow people like Herbert Armstrong who say England is the Lion, the United States is the Eagle, and Russia is the Bear, and even say the Roman Catholic Church is the Bast and the Pope is the False Prophet, which of course is just nonsensical stuff put out by the Church of God, a true cult.

There is a drought during the time the two witness are prophesying which according to you delusion would leave the agriculture devastated in the second half of the trib, leaving no possibility for the massive agricultural recovery shown in all the prophecy; even God coming and clearing his enemies from the land flowing with milk and honey when all the nation are helping them return to there land they were driven out of three and a half years earlier.

Rev 11:6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

Joe 3:16-20 The LORD roars from Zion And utters His voice from Jerusalem, And the heavens and the earth tremble. But the LORD is the refuge for His people And a stronghold for the sons of Israel. Joe 17 Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain. When Jerusalem will be holy, when strangers will no longer pass through it. 18 And In that day The mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; And the spring will go out from the house of the LORD To water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt will become a waste, And Edom will become a desolate wilderness, Because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood. 20 Yet Judah will be inhabited forever And Jerusalem for all generations. 21 And I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged, For the LORD dwells in Zion.

You are complete unhinged; having absolutely no true knowledge of scriptures, holding only to the traditions of the Great Harlot (the doctrine of demons)
​

 

[Pablo2021]

IN HIS TIMELINE, RONDONMON PLACES THE BEAST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 7-YEAR PERIOD (DAY 1); AND THE TWO WITNESSES ON DAY 1185 (75 DAYS BEFORE THE MIDDLE).

THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO FRIEND'S QUESTION; BECAUSE, INDEED:

What use would it be for the Lord to call them "My two witnesses"?

[Rev 11:3 NIV] 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

But quite the contrary: He has always appointed His witnesses, the prophets in timely fashion; otherwise they can be call whatever we want, except true prophets of God.

[Jer 25:4 KJV] 4 And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending [them]; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.

 

[ewq1938]

G3144
μάρτυς
martus
mar'-toos
Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a “martyr”: - martyr, record, witness.
Total KJV occurrences: 34


Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two martyrs, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Pablo2021]

Watchman nee said the whore was the rcc.

And he's right. Ask me, a Mexican, whose country (and for that matter, the Americas, from Mexico to South America) was sacked and ravaged from the onset that the catholic missionaries arrived, backed up by the Spanish and Portuguese armies. One of his own clergyman, Bartolome De las Casas, chronicled the massacres carried on by this Harlot and her Beast ("A Short Account of the the Destruction of the Indies".) And why didn't she conquer the North of the Americas (USA, Canada)? Because there was practically no gold in comparison with the rest of the continent; and, in time, too, She was known in the 13 American Colonies for who she really was.

Up until the mid 1980's, in my country --Mexico-- there used to be more people aware of these facts, and had definitely identified the Great Harlot of Revelations with the Roman Catholic Church; but for the following 10 to 15 years, (1990-95) the Catholic Beast was having a level of success by making us believe She is "The Original, Mother Church" (Well, yes, an original fake church, a persecutor of both Jews and Christians throughout history. Finally, it's been about 25 years now that more and more people, again, seeing through Her disguise, are knowing Her for who She really is, was, and will be:

Isaiah 47:8, 10 “Now hear this, you sensual one, who is always dwelling securely, who says in her heart, ‘I am, and there is no one else besides me. I will never sit as a widow, nor will I ever know the loss of children.’ ... 10 You were feeling secure in your wickedness and said, ‘No one sees me [for what she really was].’ “All of your wisdom and knowledge has deluded you; because of this, you say in your heart, ‘I am, and there’s no one else besides me.’”


So, let's not get deceived by her or her advocates, wherever they may be. Quite the opposite: Warn, Denounce her treachery, her opulence, her fake meekness (she's got a history trail soaked in blood), her collusion with the beasts in turn, her collateral damage spokesmen trying to make her look as a harmless lamb (when she's been the historic wolf), and so on so forth...

Isaiah 47:9 “But on the contrary, these two things will come on you suddenly in one day: Loss of children, and you will become a widow. All of this will come on you in full strength despite your many sorceries, and the great power of your spells.

Now, more and more of her spells are being broken among our Latin American people; the Harlot is losing the credibility and honors she was used to receive; her white robes, smiles and glad handing is getting less and less efective; and her pleas to the Latin American people to go back to "The Sacred Heart of Mother Church". But this turn of events has been only possible because this good news is being spread from the very Word of God and secular history data.

 

[Pablo2021]

IN HIS TIMELINE, RONDONMON PLACES THE BEAST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 7-YEAR PERIOD (DAY 1); AND THE TWO WITNESSES ON DAY 1185 (75 DAYS BEFORE THE MIDDLE).

THAT'S WHY HE DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO FRIEND'S QUESTION; BECAUSE, INDEED:

What use would it be for the Lord to call them "My two witnesses"?

[Rev 11:3 NIV] 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."

But quite the contrary: He has always appointed His witnesses, the prophets in timely fashion; otherwise they can be call whatever we want, except true prophets of God.

[Jer 25:4 KJV] 4 And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending [them]; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.

BY THE WAY, BELOW IS THE QUESTION FRIEND ASKED RONDONMON (I quote):

Hello Rondonmon: Please show us one example anywhere in the Old Testament where a Prophet of Israel is clueless as to who Israel's enemies were.

 

[Pablo2021]

"You are basically lost in space on all things end times. An Armstrong guy. The Jewish peoples never accept a false Christ. They enter into an AGREEMENT with the European Union (the 10 that ARISE out of the head of the Fourth Beast) AND the Little Horn that arises in (the 10) Europe (born in Greece) amongst these 10 (all Europe)."

[I'm bolding the paragraph above from Rondonmon]

Rondonmon: Here you're pointing to "The little horn" instead of what was being addressed in the post you replied to. So, you really missed the main point; you are being derogatory regarding many witnesses able to completely agree while examining every detail over and over for twenty-two + years, with almost everyone among him and the people he’s been working with willing to admit that the numbers were not crunching.

Just as many of us in Mexico, who were also trying to say that the Fourth Beast (Empire) in Daniel is the same as the Seventh in the Apocalypse of John IN EVERY ASPECT; because that is what tradition was teaching us (Tradition that was having Israel destroyed, the traditions of the Great Harlot that we were all made to drink… But the more willing we are to admit we all have drunk of her passions, the easier it will get for us to wake and sober up.)

Some things we can’t miss if we are to fully understand Daniel 7:25: ​

The Roman Beast is Fourth in the order revealed to Daniel, but it’s Sixth for John in Revelations. Secular Historians consider Daniel 7:24-25 as The Year Of The Four Emperors, and for this reason it has always been considered to have been written after the fact. Rome went against Jerusalem on February 67 A.D., and destroyed it in August 70 A.D. (in 3.5 years.) And that’s the fulfillment of this prophecy.

[Dan 7:24 NASB20] 24 'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will humble three kings. 25 'And he will speak against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be handed over to him for a time, times, and half a time.​

Bear in mind Daniel is describing the Ancient Roman Beast from the beginning; so, in vv. 11 and 12, we foresee the beast being killed while the others beasts are given an extension of time.

And this is another difference between the Beast of the End Times and the Ancient Roman Beast, in that after the fall of Ancient Rome, there were remains of the other beasts; but after the fall of the Future Beast/Rome, none of the beasts will remain.

[Dan 7:11-12 NASB20] 11 "Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was killed, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.​

 

[Rondonmon]

There is a drought during the time the two witness are prophesying which according to you delusion would leave the agriculture devastated in the second half of the trib, leaving no possibility for the massive agricultural recovery shown in all the prophecy; even God coming and clearing his enemies from the land flowing with milk and honey when all the nation are helping them return to there land they were driven out of three and a half years earlier.

Rev 11:6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

All this proves is you do not understand how to discern the scriptures. You find an interpretation that seems to say what you want it to and go with that one, I notice those types who do that. I use one bible, the KJV and if someone else can't understand the Old English as well as I do with will use the Holman version, but I will not skip around to get a version to props me up. We can get the truth through the tried and true, "Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little" concept God gave us in Isaiah 28:10. THUS: by looking at everything we can understand when the Two-witnesses arrive AND by looking at the KJV and not some version that says different, in this case many of them insinuate the same thing, but the NIV says WILL NOT RAIN , that's not what the text actually says, especially to those who understand the KJV's translations.

Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

So, the two-witnesses have THE POWER to do these things, that it NOT RAIN while they are Prophesying, AND that waters can TURN to blood, AND that they can smite the earth with all manner of PLAGUES.

You take a verse that means they have the power to STOP THE RAINS and you turn it into they STOP THE RAIN for 42 straight months, yet you don't assume there is blood for 42 straight months, nor that every plague they bring lasts for 42 months, this is God telling us that He gives the Two-witnesses the POWER to pray down the Plagues IN ORDER, just like Moses did with the 10 Plagues in Egypt. They all come in an orderly process. However, when one goes over the 7 Trumps, or first four Trumps and 3 Woes, at NO TIME does any one of those Judgments actually show where God withholds the Rain !! I think its like the word MYSTERY in Rev. 17, where its not Mystery Babylon, its MYTERY followed by Three Descriptions f the Harlot, which is thus no longer a Mystery (Secret) because God just described her unto us. The Harlot is ALL False Religion of All Time. Likewise, in Rev. 11 God is telling about the coming Two-witnesses powers during their 42 month reign, and the power to STOP RAIN is just God giving an overview to the power they have been given, its God saying, THEY WILL BRING all of these coming Plagues, then when we see the Trumps and Vials none of them even hint at water being withheld. Those reading 2000 years ago understood water being withheld, but probably not all of these other things John was going to describe in the book of Revelation, so that point was brought into focus by using the withholding of Rain, to show God was giving these Two-witnesses substantial powers.

In other words they can PRAY and it will not rain, they can PRAY and the First Four Trumps will come to pass, they can PRAY and the 1st and 2nd Woe will come to pass. Then when thy get killed at the 2nd Woe they have already prayed for the 7th Trump to sound, which is the3rd Woe, which is ALL 7 Vials. So, in a general sort of way, God uses the fact that they can stop the rains to inform us that these two, like Moses, will cause God's Wrath to fall, thus they will be hated, on live WORLD-WIDE TV the will pray for this Asteroid to strike, the one they says will miss us by 19,000 miles, and it does, and the First Four Trumps comes to pass. Then they pray for the 5th Trump, and the Bottomless Pit is emptied, men of the earth who have taken the Mark of the Best will basically e tortured via pain for 5 months, desiring death, bit it will not come, this Gid will not allow suicide. Then they pray down the 2nd Woe which is a 200 Million Angelic Army (10,000 x 10,000 really just means the COMPLETE HOSTS of Heaven) that slays 1/3 of the men who took the Mark of the Beast. Finally the 3rd Woe/7th Trump is prayed down and then they die at the 2nd Woe. But the 7 Vials are 1.) Painful Sores 2.) Sea turns t blood 3.) Rivers turn to blood 4.) The Sun scorches men 5.) A thick Darkness falls on the Anti-Christ's kingdom 6.) The Plagues stop just long enough to allow the nations to plan an attack against God Almighty 7.) Jesus wipes the floor with the Kings of the world, God calls them Babylon the Great.

BUT.........All the above is irrelevant, because you don't even understand what time Joel 3:18 is speaking about.

 

[Rondonmon]

CONTINUED............

BUT.........All the above is irrelevant, because you don't even understand what time Joel 3:18 is speaking about.

Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. 3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

{{{ The Last days infer from Jesus' Death until these vey end times Joel is describing, we know that because he later describes those as being brought back unto Israel from all the lands and which they were sent to (minor point TBH). There is no such place as Jehoshaphat in Israel, that name actually means "The Lord Judges", so its just describing God's PLACE of Judgment, when God gathers all the Nations against Israel, and hence the name is Symbolical. God was judging Israel at the tie Joel wrote this (Locusts) hence God was assuring Israel one day the wicked will also be judged for their evil deeds. So, God will plead for Israel at that time, or bring justice to the wicked. }}}

4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head; 5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things: 6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border. 7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head: 8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it.

{{{ God mocks the nations, Will, you retaliate(recompence) against me? So basically God his mocking them here, Bring it on, because I will return your retaliation upon your own head swiftly !! This was not just END, END Times, the Romans suffered also, Nero lost 30,000 men to pestilence, Domitian died from his own soldiers, Maximum hanged himself, etc. etc. many more met with foul ends. But alas, this is mostly about the End Times. }}}

9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: 10 Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. 11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord. 12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. 13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

{{{ Again, God is mocking/challenging the nations to prepare for war against Him, and one day they will do just that but God laughs at them (Psalm 2). He again mocks, Beat your plows into swords, let the weak say (pretention) I am strong. He is mocking the nations, gather ourselves, come on down, let the wicked come and be judged in the valley of (Jehoshaphat). In verse 13, it correlates to the Rev. 14:17-20 Grape Harvest Judgment of the Wicked. }}}

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. 16 The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. 17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

{{{ Joel foresaw the Armageddon Battle of Judgment, he called it the valley of decision, when God will fight for Israel. He saw multitudes gathering against God and Israel. In verse 16 Joel looks back at Joel 2:30-31 and the cosmic catastrophes but announces that during all these events, God will protect His people Israel. BUT THEN in verse 17 we get a TIME SHIFT, you seem to have missed that very important detail (small wonders), because God says he now DWELLS in Zion, so Jesus is reigning at this time, just after God's Wrath ends. THEN shall Jerusalem be Holy (CATCH THAT "small" detail), AND no strangers will pass through he means Israel gets all of their original promised land, from the Euphrates River all the way to the Wadi in Egypt or River of Egypt. }}}

18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim. 19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. 20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation. 21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the Lord dwelleth in Zion.

{{{ And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY...........What Day is THAT DAY pointing unto? The DAY God is dwelling in Zion or Jerusalem, (vs. 17) meaning in Jesus' 1000 year reign, not in the 3.5 years of Wrath. That has ENDED in verse 16 !! Thus in verse 18 we get what Jesus 1000 year rein brings, NEW WINE, and hills that FLOW WITH MILK, and pure rivers from the valley of Shittim. And Egypt shall be desolated, as will Edom, because of their violence against God and Israel, but those two are a stand in for the Whole World, who will once a year have to bring gifts unto Jesus in Jerusalem, and God cleanses their blood. }}}

So, in truth, you literally butchered those passages brother. You get the whole Drought prognosis wrong in my honest opinion, yes its stated, but I think the facts shows its a Metaphoric Shadow, speaking about who brings forth the Plagues of God via their prayers during these 3.5 years. These very same Plagues never show any drought, now it might be seen somewhere in the bible, but I have never seen any of these end time plagues that contain drought in any scriptures during these end time plagues. Basically, in truth, God is just revealing unto John the enormity of the Two-witnesses powers with that pointed description.

Then in Joel chapter 3, you peel off a few verses and we dnt see the actual CONTEXT, which is very important, so it took you a whole day to find something to TRY and overcome my point about the Two-witnesses TIMELINES, and in so doing you used craftily created passages which I totally DESTROY, because truth is always TRUTH sir. Thus beautiful time period you are pointing towards comes AFTER Jesus return, and AFTER Jesus' 1000 year reign starts.

Its rally simple, instead of searching a whole day for a passage you could manipulate, you admit that of the Two-witnesses DIE at the 2nd Woe and the Beast DIES at the 3rd Woe and BOTH have 1260 day ministries on earth, neither one is in their Ordained Calling of 1260 days at the time the Agreements are made, the Beast will just be the E.U. President or Anti-Christ at that time, not the Beast and the Two-witnesses will not even be on earth at the beginning of the 70th week, because they are sent from Heaven. But instead of admitting your were WRONG, you searched all night to try and find something you could MASSAGE into proving me wrong, but you can't ever do that because the Holy Spirit that leads me is NEVER WRONG.

 

[Rondonmon]

BY THE WAY, BELOW IS THE QUESTION FRIEND ASKED RONDONMON (I quote):

Hello Rondonmon: Please show us one example anywhere in the Old Testament where a Prophet of Israel is clueless as to who Israel's enemies were.

Pssttt, you guys both came here at the "SAME TIME" , and believe the "SAME THING".

Wink, Wink. That's why I called you Frick and Frack.

 

[Pablo2021]

Pssttt, you guys both came here at the "SAME TIME" , and believe the "SAME THING".

Wink, Wink. That's why I called you Frick and Frack.

That particular, I would say, was not planned; it "just happened"; but why wonder if this has been the point from days ago now?

 

[Pablo2021]

BUT.........All the above is irrelevant, because you don't even understand what time Joel 3:18 is speaking about.

Here is my rebuttal:

DROUGHT AND RAIN​

The drought will end shortly after Moses and Elijah are killed; and it’s obvious they will be slain at the time of the broken treaty (the middle of the week; i.e. the last day of the Beast’s unfettered treachery against the people of God.) This means the time of their prophecy began the same day the Beast was given authority over the nations. This leaves us without any scenario giving possibility for agricultural recovery in the three and a half days that follow up to Armageddon (in the middle of the week), but God is showing us an agricultural recovery preceding the Great Supper (at the End of the 7-year tribulations). So, take into account there's two battles: Armageddon in the middle of the Week, and The Great Supper at the Week.

Joe 3:18 - On that day the mountains will drip with sweet wine, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; And a spring will go out from the house of Jehovah/Eternal To water the valley of Shittim.​

[Isa 30:25 NASB] On every lofty mountain and on every high hill there will be streams running with water on the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.​

This is the day that the people of Jerusalem are rescued from Armies that in just a matter of a few days, have bivouacked in the Valley of Jehoshaphat/Kidron. ​

Joe 3:11a - Hurry and come, all you surrounding nations, and gather yourselves there.​

This is not the coalition of nations that started gathering in the Valley of Megiddo in preparation for what would be their defeat, even leaving the unrepentant of this coalition alive. The nations would not make this same mistake again, but certainly in their irrationality will be making another: that is to gather against God’s people again, except with the main body of this coalition in a different valley, the Valley of Jehoshaphat/Kidron Valley. God will come from heaven with all His armies/“Mighty Ones,” to defeat these armies in the “Valley of Decision”/Jehoshaphat, even throughout the rest of the world.

Joe 3:11-12 - Hurry and come, all you surrounding nations, and gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, your mighty ones. 12 Let the nations be aroused and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat, because there I will be sitting to judge all the surrounding nations.​

This is the Second wine press, reserved for all but a few of God’s enemies that will gather against Israel for the second and last time; that is, there will be only a few enemy survivors of the Valley of Jehoshaphat, who will, before the close of this battle, be putting their trust in Messiah.

Joel 3:13-21 Put in the sickle, because the harvest is ripe. Come, tread, because the wine press is full; the vats overflow, because their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! because the day of Eternal is near, in the valley of decision.

15 The sun and moon grew dark And the stars lost their brightness. 16 When Eternal roars from Zion and utters His voice from Jerusalem, the heavens and the earth will tremble. But Eternal is a refuge for His people, a stronghold for the sons of Israel.

17 Then you will know that I am Eternal your God, dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain. Therefore Jerusalem will be holy, and strangers will no longer pass through it.

18 In those days the mountains will drip with fresh grape juice, And the hills will flow with milk, And all the brooks of Judah will flow with water; and a spring will go out from the house of Eternal to water the valley of acacias.

19 Egypt will become a waste, And Edom/Babylon will become a desolate wilderness, because of the violence done to the sons of Judah, In whose land they have shed innocent blood.

20 But Judah will be inhabited forever, and Jerusalem for all generations. 21 I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged before, because Jehovah dwells in Zion.​

This is the day that God calls the Nations to gather “quickly”, but this time with the Lamb sitting to judge and completely defeat all of the peoples who will gather against Him. These will have gathered there after the 6th Bowl of Wrath, with their assembling completed only hours before their slaughter, on the same day when all of the Harlot’s towers have fallen. And notice, what follows is revealing mountains and streams running with water before the Cities and the armies are destroyed. And immediately after this Greatest of all earthquake, the mountains are no longer found:

[Isa 30:25 NASB] On every lofty mountain and on every high hill there will be streams running with water on the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.​

Rev 16:20 Every island fled away, and the mountains were no longer found.​

Isa 40:4-5 "Let every valley be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; let even the rough ground become a plain, and the rugged terrain a broad valley; 5 then the glory of Jehovah/Eternal will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together; the mouth of Eternal has spoken."​

The children of Abraham’s seed will have turned to the Lord three and a half years earlier, when they witnessed their deliverance from Armageddon; even Elijah and Moses, before their resurrection, were turning the hearts of the people to the Lamb.

[Mal 4:5-6 NASB] "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of Jehovah. 6 "He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse."​

Isa 30:23-25 - Therefore He will give you rain for the seed which you will sow in the ground, and bread from the yield of the ground, and it will be rich and plenteous; on that day your livestock will be grazing in roomy pastures. 24 Also the oxen and the donkeys which work the ground will be eating salted fodder, which has been winnowed with shovel and fork. 25 Even on every lofty mountain and on every high hill there will be streams running with water on the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.​

 

[Rondonmon]

Here is my rebuttal:

DROUGHT AND RAIN​

The drought will end shortly after Moses and Elijah are killed;

There is NO REBUTTAL, nowhere do you show in the last dats where there is any drought, I see you type of guys (if you are 2 guys at all) all the time, you can't rebut if you read, but its usually very clear you don't read because if you did you wouldn't answer with an already DEFEATED ANSWER.

Notice, I ask for ANYONE one or "BOTH" (Wink, wink) to show me where any of the Trumpet of Vial judgments point to any kind of drought, and you can't do it because I already know its not there, they whole "They are given them Power to withhold the Rains" is just God telling everyone these guys have access unto God via their prayers, we can actually see however what Plagues they actually pray down, and none of them is drought. That is used in a general sense, to give understanding unto their praying power.

So, nothing you say about a drought is worth reading until you can show a Trump or a Vial that has a Drought in it.

And once again, the Two-witnesses show up 1335 days before he Second Coming which is after the 70th Week Agreements. I'm on to you. You can carpet bomb post all you want to, unlike other places I can destroy these false notions you bring to he table. I'm on to you (ONE).

God Bless.

 

[Pablo2021]

There is NO REBUTTAL, nowhere do you show in the last dats where there is any drought, I see you type of guys (if you are 2 guys at all) all the time, you can't rebut if you read, but its usually very clear you don't read because if you did you wouldn't answer with an already DEFEATED ANSWER.

Notice, I ask for ANYONE one or "BOTH" (Wink, wink) to show me where any of the Trumpet of Vial judgments point to any kind of drought, and you can't do it because I already know its not there, they whole "They are given them Power to withhold the Rains" is just God telling everyone these guys have access unto God via their prayers, we can actually see however what Plagues they actually pray down, and none of them is drought. That is used in a general sense, to give understanding unto their praying power.

So, nothing you say about a drought is worth reading until you can show a Trump or a Vial that has a Drought in it.

And once again, the Two-witnesses show up 1335 days before he Second Coming which is after the 70th Week Agreements. I'm on to you. You can carpet bomb post all you want to, unlike other places I can destroy these false notions you bring to he table. I'm on to you (ONE).

God Bless.

There's more evidence than you think:

--How do you think the Euphrates dries up? At the command of the Two witnesses/Prophets or God's? Or both,? Or neither of them? And why?

Rev 6:12a/16:12-14 - I looked when He broke the 6th Seal, and I saw the great river Euphrates; and the water was dried up, that the way be prepared for the kings of the east. 13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits looking like frogs; 14 these are spirits of demons, performing signs, while going out to the kings of all the earth, in order to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty [Armageddon].

--And what about the black horse? Here we are seeing high costs of the basic foods, with price fixing in view. These prices reflect that a whole day’s wages are required for a portion inadequate for a family. Famine.

Rev 6:5-6 - He broke the 3rd Seal, and I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I was looking, and a black horse appeared; and the one who was sitting on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.”

Now, it is expected that the dams of the Euphrates will be locked down: They will be locked down to save water, because there will be drought during the time of the Two Witnesses’ prophesying. Moses and Elijah (who appear on the world stage Immediately after the Rapture of the Church) will be limiting the power of the Beast throughout the first half of the tribulations (1260 days = 3 ½ years).

Rev 11:3, 6 - “I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days (3 and ½ years) clothed in sackcloth." … 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

And lastly, but not lessser, Elijah and Moses themselves being the types in Scriptures: Moses staff, and Elijah's word:

[Jas 5:17 KJV] 17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

​

 

[Nehemiah6]

...show me where any of the Trumpet of Vial judgments point to any kind of drought, and you can't do it because I already know its not there...

You must have skipped over this verse: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:6)

The "days of their prophecy " are 1260 days, which are exactly 3 1/2 years. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to postulate that Moses and Elijah are these two prophets, and there is plain Scripture which tells us that Elijah stopped the rain from falling over Israel for exactly 3 1/2 years (which he was on earth during the reign of Ahab): Elias [Elijah] was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. (James 5:17)

So Elijah will do what he already did, and Moses will also do what he already did, but the main thrust of their ministry will be the Gospel and the salvation of souls. Many Jews will believe and will be converted, and will also pay the ultimate price (like these two).

 

[Rondonmon]

You must have skipped over this verse: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Rev 11:6)

The "days of their prophecy " are 1260 days, which are exactly 3 1/2 years. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence to postulate that Moses and Elijah are these two prophets, and there is plain Scripture which tells us that Elijah stopped the rain from falling over Israel for exactly 3 1/2 years (which he was on earth during the reign of Ahab): Elias [Elijah] was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. (James 5:17)

So Elijah will do what he already did, and Moses will also do what he already did, but the main thrust of their ministry will be the Gospel and the salvation of souls. Many Jews will believe and will be converted, and will also pay the ultimate price (like these two).

We always get these type "THROWBACKS" to the past, but the Anti-Christ will not d the exact thing that Antiochus did and the False Prophet will not do the exact thing that Json did. Its about a Spiritual TYPE in all these cases. Antiochus Sacrificed unto Zeus, BUT though he was a god himself hence the name Epiphanes (God manifest). But the Anti-Christ bans all other worshiping of any gods or the one true God/Jesus, but allows the worship of Himself as god manifest, so Antiochus was not exactly like the coming Anti-Christ. because he will not believe in any god, as Daniel 11:36-39 tells us.

I see Moses (Transfiguration pair) as the other Witness, but his 10 Plagues will also not be replicated, these type shadows, in BOTH CASES point to Judgment, and the 3.5 years of drought follows two other things, Elijah helped the widow and brought a boy back to life, the two witnesses help Israel who God has cast off for nigh 2000 years and brings her back to life, then they bring Judgments. The proof is in the pudding, no droughts can be found in Revelation anywhere, and we are shown all of the Judgments. So, why does God mention they have the power to to stop the rain? To tell us that one of the Two-witnesses will be Elijah. The same reason that in Rev. 12 the Gen. 37:9 verse is relied upon to inform us who the Woman is. Its not the moon, sun and stars, its Israel.

The 1260 days of rain was a foreshadowing of the coming Judgment, just like Babylon was a foreshadowing Israel going into Bondage for 2000 years later on, and being brought out of al the nations in 1948, but shadows are of course never exactly alike, they point towards judgments that are very similar. The 7 Feast were Holy Convocation or Dress Rehearsals for those things to come.

Like I told them, or him (as in singular) go look at the 7 Trumps and 7 Vials, it never speaks about a Drought, the "Power to stop rain" is just God giving us a coded message (just like in Rev. 12) about who one of the Witnesses is.

 

[Rondonmon]

There's more evidence than you think:

--How do you think the Euphrates dries up? At the command of the Two witnesses/Prophets or God's? Or both,? Or neither of them? And why?

It doesn't, it is a Metaphor, if you just put a wee little bit of thought into it, common sense would tell you a Modern Day Army doesn't need a river to dry up to actually cross it, they have Helicopters, ships/boats and they can build bridges to cross rivers and take them down in mere hours in modern armies, this is a well know fact. So, why does this not register with you guys? This is why you cant bridge the scriptures that were put out 2000 or so years ago were hey could understand it, but applying it metaphorically where with a little bit of thought, we could also understand it.

Why do people insist the 200 Million from Woe #2 in Rev. 9 need to cross a River in the Iran/Iraq area? Aren't there many other rivers in between China and the Euphrates? Firstly, ALL OF THAT IS WRONG, the 200 Million in Rev. 9 is an Angelic Army, and its not 200 million men from China, its the complete hosts of Heaven as in 10,000 x 10,000 = Completion. They aren't even in Rev. 16, but they get transported t Rev. 16 and become MEN {}, this is how the scriptures get conflated.

So, what does the scripture you quoted actually mean?

God is Judging Babylon the Great (Rev. 16:19) and in so doing He says that ALL the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD gather to fight against God Almighty, so why does God then have to mention the Euphrates River at all? We know the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD are gathering, it seems a waste of a verse to also mention the kings of the east who cross the Euphrates River Basin....BUT NOT if we understand what God is doing, REMEMBER, this is God judging or recompensing mankind for all of their sins, thus He is calling out ALL False Governments of All Time with a nod here to the Persian and Babylonian Beast Kingdoms, he doesn't have to mention the Greek and Roman Kingdoms because of where the Anti-Christ is born and where he comes to power. He is born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. (Rome's base), so God is calling out the Four Beasts who ruled immorally over Israel and other nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region.

So, the River Euphrates drying up and the Kings of the East having a path cleared for them, is really just this, the Judgments started POUNDING with the First Four Trumps, then the First and 2nd Woes came where we saw 5 months of pain without death followed by 1/3 of all men with the Mark of the Beast being killed by the "200 million" Angelic Army. This is all followed by the First 5 Vials which much have these people in utter terror, THEN METAPHORICALLY the "Path is Cleared" for the Kings of the East AND all the Kings of the Whole World to regather, reorganize, and for Satan to send out three lying spirits to get these ignorant people to try and go defeat God Almighty and Israel, but in order to do all that, God has to put a SUDDEN STOP to all of His plagues & wrath for a time, giving Satan time to put forth these ideas of wiping out Israel, and fighting against Gid's will.

So, "THE RIVER" which is the obstacle to these "Beast Kingdoms" is not a real river, its God's Judgments where can't even move around, lest they are being targeted by Gods wrath, they are dying end over end, boom, boom, boom. And all of the sudden God takes this impossible obstacle (His Judgments) out of their way. This is How God uses other peoples arguments to reach me, I hear His voice, so when someone the other day says to me how can they come against God if they are being hammered with these plagues and judgments, God's Holy Spirit was like "Ron, the Euphrates River Vial that gathers everyone is the Father STOPPING His judgments long enough for them to make a plan and regroup, and long enough for Satan to LIE AGAIN unto these gullible men". Thus he can get them all whipped into a frenzy where they will try once again to wipe out Israel and defeat God Almighty, like the naive, ignorant and gullible creatures they have become !!

So, its metaphoric in nature, simple common sense tells us modern man dos not need a river to dry up to cross it in order to go to battle, but no one can battle against Gid Almighty right? So, as long as those Plagues/Vials are dropping no man is going to come out and fight God, but later it stops (The River dries up) they can then be lied unto again by Satan, whipped into a frenzy at all "God has done unto them" (yea right, Judgment is on Mankind, God is just in all His ways). Thus the River is God's Judgments they can't even get out of their caves or hiding places, see Seal # 6's Prophetic Uttering, they hid amongst the rocks and then begged to be killed to take them away from God's Wrath.

LONG so I will do another Post to finish up.

 

[Rondonmon]

Rev 6:12a/16:12-14 - I looked when He broke the 6th Seal, and I saw the great river Euphrates; and the water was dried up, that the way be prepared for the kings of the east. 13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, the beast, and the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits looking like frogs; 14 these are spirits of demons, performing signs, while going out to the kings of all the earth, in order to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty [Armageddon].

It's the 6th Vial, not 6th Seal. I notice you tried to conflate them improperly. That is a NO NO.

--And what about the black horse? Here we are seeing high costs of the basic foods, with price fixing in view. These prices reflect that a whole day’s wages are required for a portion inadequate for a family. Famine.

Rev 6:5-6 - He broke the 3rd Seal, and I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I was looking, and a black horse appeared; and the one who was sitting on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.”

Famines always come from Wars in General, BUT when you have 1/3 of the World wiped out an I think that 1/3 of the USA/Canada region, and we are the Bread Basket of the World, and when the world has hyper inflation, and 1/3 of the world s burning, and smoke fills the air so much that the Sun will only shine at a 2/3 clip (where things will not grow properly), and you add in Death, Disease from these bodies laying everywhere, the Rapture has taken the Lord's "SOLID PEOPLE" (Christians) to heaven. The others who are left are now dodging God's Judgments, thus there is no one outside to to harvest anything, even if there was anything growing. The facts are all of these things contribute to this Black Horse Famine. Its not NO RAIN, at least we NEVER see that espoused by John as being in any of the coming Judgments. I am just reading he Scriptures.

Now, it is expected that the dams of the Euphrates will be locked down: They will be locked down to save water, because there will be drought during the time of the Two Witnesses’ prophesying. Moses and Elijah (who appear on the world stage Immediately after the Rapture of the Church) will be limiting the power of the Beast throughout the first half of the tribulations (1260 days = 3 ½ years).

EXPECTED by who? I expect what is in the scriptures, I see NO DROUGHTS anywhere in the Judgments, and neither do you or anyone else. The Rapture happens BEFORE the 70th week, the Two-witnesses show up 1185 days after the Rapture, or 75 days before the middle of the week. There is NO Beast before the 1260, he only becomes THE BEAST after He Conquers Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region.

Rev 11:3, 6 - “I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days (3 and ½ years) clothed in sackcloth." … 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

And lastly, but not lessser, Elijah and Moses themselves being the types in Scriptures: Moses staff, and Elijah's word:

[Jas 5:17 KJV] 17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.​

Again, IF YOU READ my above comments there would have been no need to make this rebut, it has already been DEFEATED by my above posts, reading saves replies.