Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Charlie24]

It doesn't, it is a Metaphor, if you just put a wee little bit of thought into it, common sense would tell you a Modern Day Army doesn't need a river to dry up to actually cross it, they have Helicopters, ships/boats and they can build bridges to cross rivers and take them down in mere hours in modern armies, this is a well know fact. So, why does this not register with you guys? This is why you cant bridge the scriptures that were put out 2000 or so years ago were hey could understand it, but applying it metaphorically where with a little bit of thought, we could also understand it.

Why do people insist the 200 Million from Woe #2 in Rev. 9 need to cross a River in the Iran/Iraq area? Aren't there many other rivers in between China and the Euphrates? Firstly, ALL OF THAT IS WRONG, the 200 Million in Rev. 9 is an Angelic Army, and its not 200 million men from China, its the complete hosts of Heaven as in 10,000 x 10,000 = Completion. They aren't even in Rev. 16, but they get transported t Rev. 16 and become MEN {}, this is how the scriptures get conflated.

So, what does the scripture you quoted actually mean?

God is Judging Babylon the Great (Rev. 16:19) and in so doing He says that ALL the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD gather to fight against God Almighty, so why does God then have to mention the Euphrates River at all? We know the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD are gathering, it seems a waste of a verse to also mention the kings of the east who cross the Euphrates River Basin....BUT NOT if we understand what God is doing, REMEMBER, this is God judging or recompensing mankind for all of their sins, thus He is calling out ALL False Governments of All Time with a nod here to the Persian and Babylonian Beast Kingdoms, he doesn't have to mention the Greek and Roman Kingdoms because of where the Anti-Christ is born and where he comes to power. He is born in Greece and comes to power in the E.U. (Rome's base), so God is calling out the Four Beasts who ruled immorally over Israel and other nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region.

So, the River Euphrates drying up and the Kings of the East having a path cleared for them, is really just this, the Judgments started POUNDING with the First Four Trumps, then the First and 2nd Woes came where we saw 5 months of pain without death followed by 1/3 of all men with the Mark of the Beast being killed by the "200 million" Angelic Army. This is all followed by the First 5 Vials which much have these people in utter terror, THEN METAPHORICALLY the "Path is Cleared" for the Kings of the East AND all the Kings of the Whole World to regather, reorganize, and for Satan to send out three lying spirits to get these ignorant people to try and go defeat God Almighty and Israel, but in order to do all that, God has to put a SUDDEN STOP to all of His plagues & wrath for a time, giving Satan time to put forth these ideas of wiping out Israel, and fighting against Gid's will.

So, "THE RIVER" which is the obstacle to these "Beast Kingdoms" is not a real river, its God's Judgments where can't even move around, lest they are being targeted by Gods wrath, they are dying end over end, boom, boom, boom. And all of the sudden God takes this impossible obstacle (His Judgments) out of their way. This is How God uses other peoples arguments to reach me, I hear His voice, so when someone the other day says to me how can they come against God if they are being hammered with these plagues and judgments, God's Holy Spirit was like "Ron, the Euphrates River Vial that gathers everyone is the Father STOPPING His judgments long enough for them to make a plan and regroup, and long enough for Satan to LIE AGAIN unto these gullible men". Thus he can get them all whipped into a frenzy where they will try once again to wipe out Israel and defeat God Almighty, like the naive, ignorant and gullible creatures they have become !!

So, its metaphoric in nature, simple common sense tells us modern man dos not need a river to dry up to cross it in order to go to battle, but no one can battle against Gid Almighty right? So, as long as those Plagues/Vials are dropping no man is going to come out and fight God, but later it stops (The River dries up) they can then be lied unto again by Satan, whipped into a frenzy at all "God has done unto them" (yea right, Judgment is on Mankind, God is just in all His ways). Thus the River is God's Judgments they can't even get out of their caves or hiding places, see Seal # 6's Prophetic Uttering, they hid amongst the rocks and then begged to be killed to take them away from God's Wrath.

LONG so I will do another Post to finish up.

Your logic is total assumption! You are assuming that you know the results of the previous 5 vials on earth.

You have no idea and neither does anyone else how conventional military operations have been effected.

God has determined that the nations of the world led by the anti-christ will meet together at a place called Armageddon.

So you assume, acting as though Revelation gives you all that info for you to make figurative claims of what you think will happen.

What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery!

 

[Rondonmon]

Your logic is total assumption! You are assuming that you know the results of the previous 5 vials on earth.

You have no idea and neither does anyone else how conventional military operations have been effected.

God has determined that the nations of the world led by the anti-christ will meet together at a place called Armageddon.

So you assume, acting as though Revelation gives you all that info for you to make figurative claims of what you think will happen.

What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery!

No I understand it because when the Hoy Spirit gives it to me, I know his voice, this is MY CALLING, it may not be yours so maybe you will never see it, it is what it is.

Your whole answer above is not logical. You surmise, "you (me) gave NO IDEA", well, yes I do, this has been my calling of over 35 years, when you are a Christian for 1 year in the mid 80s and God gives you a vision, where you are running from evil people, with two small kids, then you hide by a house behind a bush (its still that vivid) and you hear a BOOMING VOICE from Heaven say simply, "The Man of Sin is Here" and that was all that was said. Then, so you do not fail to "UNDERSTAND" because that event is still 35-40 years away(at that time), you get one more vision where you see Jimmy Swaggart falling from Grace and two weeks later he fell from Grace (He was in a huge auditorium preaching to maybe 10 people), So, when God, in a vision, specifically tells you the Anti-Christ is in the world (The Man of Sin IS HERE) then I knew my calling long ago. Back to the illogical portion and why it is such.

I see the whole book of Revelation as it is, whereas most people are really clueless to what it means, its like you looking at 1000 piece puzzle and not seeing what it is clearly because you only have 60 pieces put together, whereas I have 900 pieces put together, so naturally I see the overall picture much better and it comes to me easier, if I know an elbow is here, than that portion below has to be an arm, and below that maybe fingers. Whereas you may only have a blue sky put together, and a little grass. Its two different vantage points, and callings also.

The whole point being your mention of "Conventional Military's Effect" well, you just made my argument for me, that is the whole point, none of those Armies have a chance against God Almighty, thus in order for them to build up the courage to go after Israel, they have to see God's Wrath as having ceased. God is giving us all the details of events that do not even have to happen, Jesus could just show up and wipe them off the face of the earth like he does in Vial #7 when he SPEAKS VICTORY (defeats the all Without Hand Dan 2). So, seeing as God allows them to fight, and to kill the Saints, why would you assume He just will not allow them to use their Military/Helicopters/Ships etc. etc. I mean, like I stated, God could win at any time, the reason they are allowed to fight against God is to show their true hearts, God isn't afraid of their Helicopters, LOL, or their ships, or their Armies, he laughs at them. So, he doesn't need to STOP THEIR MODERN ABILITIES, He laughs at those also, He laughs at their Nukes etc. etc. God is giving us a Metaphor, the 6th Vial should clue you in on that, he ALLOWS the Kings of the Whole World to be Gathered together for a specific reason, (thus it is His WILL) can't you see it? God wants this to be a SPECTACLE for all to see, thus Jesus just shows up in ONE PLACE, and He destroys those thugs trying to get at Israel once and for all, their Judgment has arrived, Jesus merely speaks victory. So, why do you assume God doesn't want them to Gather? If you agree He does then why would God not allow a Helicopter lift to that spot, or a ship? Etc. etc. etc. The point being, God wants this, thus that means they would not need the River to dry up, that means its just a METAPHOR for God drying up His JUDGMENTS so they can regroup and regather their armies. The very verse tells us that, Three Demon Spirits are sent out to get them to come fight against Israel/God (God protects Israel).

And you are wrong, we can know what Revelation means, its all right there in the book of Revelation. But it has to be revealed unto us. Its just common sense, even with simple cars or motorcycles people can drive around rivers, our old fashioned WW2 Navy and Armies could cross any river in 24 hours time. YES....if God didn't want them to cross they couldn't, but God could just kill them all, like I stated, He wants them to regather, in order so Jesus can Judge them, all in one place, at the Wedding Feast/Armageddon.

I don't guess, I will leave guessing to others.

 

[Charlie24]

No I understand it because when the Hoy Spirit gives it to me, I know his voice, this is MY CALLING, it may not be yours so maybe you will never see it, it is what it is.

Your whole answer above is not logical. You surmise, "you (me) gave NO IDEA", well, yes I do, this has been my calling of over 35 years, when you are a Christian for 1 year in the mid 80s and God gives you a vision, where you are running from evil people, with two small kids, then you hide by a house behind a bush (its still that vivid) and you hear a BOOMING VOICE from Heaven say simply, "The Man of Sin is Here" and that was all that was said. Then, so you do not fail to "UNDERSTAND" because that event is still 35-40 years away(at that time), you get one more vision where you see Jimmy Swaggart falling from Grace and two weeks later he fell from Grace (He was in a huge auditorium preaching to maybe 10 people), So, when God, in a vision, specifically tells you the Anti-Christ is in the world (The Man of Sin IS HERE) then I knew my calling long ago. Back to the illogical portion and why it is such.

I see the whole book of Revelation as it is, whereas most people are really clueless to what it means, its like you looking at 1000 piece puzzle and not seeing what it is clearly because you only have 60 pieces put together, whereas I have 900 pieces put together, so naturally I see the overall picture much better and it comes to me easier, if I know an elbow is here, than that portion below has to be an arm, and below that maybe fingers. Whereas you may only have a blue sky put together, and a little grass. Its two different vantage points, and callings also.

The whole point being your mention of "Conventional Military's Effect" well, you just made my argument for me, that is the whole point, none of those Armies have a chance against God Almighty, thus in order for them to build up the courage to go after Israel, they have to see God's Wrath as having ceased. God is giving us all the details of events that do not even have to happen, Jesus could just show up and wipe them off the face of the earth like he does in Vial #7 when he SPEAKS VICTORY (defeats the all Without Hand Dan 2). So, seeing as God allows them to fight, and to kill the Saints, why would you assume He just will not allow them to use their Military/Helicopters/Ships etc. etc. I mean, like I stated, God could win at any time, the reason they are allowed to fight against God is to show their true hearts, God isn't afraid of their Helicopters, LOL, or their ships, or their Armies, he laughs at them. So, he doesn't need to STOP THEIR MODERN ABILITIES, He laughs at those also, He laughs at their Nukes etc. etc. God is giving us a Metaphor, the 6th Vial should clue you in on that, he ALLOWS the Kings of the Whole World to be Gathered together for a specific reason, (thus it is His WILL) can't you see it? God wants this to be a SPECTACLE for all to see, thus Jesus just shows up in ONE PLACE, and He destroys those thugs trying to get at Israel once and for all, their Judgment has arrived, Jesus merely speaks victory. So, why do you assume God doesn't want them to Gather? If you agree He does then why would God not allow a Helicopter lift to that spot, or a ship? Etc. etc. etc. The point being, God wants this, thus that means they would not need the River to dry up, that means its just a METAPHOR for God drying up His JUDGMENTS so they can regroup and regather their armies. The very verse tells us that, Three Demon Spirits are sent out to get them to come fight against Israel/God (God protects Israel).

And you are wrong, we can know what Revelation means, its all right there in the book of Revelation. But it has to be revealed unto us. Its just common sense, even with simple cars or motorcycles people can drive around rivers, our old fashioned WW2 Navy and Armies could cross any river in 24 hours time. YES....if God didn't want them to cross they couldn't, but God could just kill them all, like I stated, He wants them to regather, in order so Jesus can Judge them, all in one place, at the Wedding Feast/Armageddon.

I don't guess, I will leave guessing to others.

How many in this world have figured it out, they have the answer, they received it from the Holy Spirit?

Every account is different and if I had a dollar bill for every one of them, I'd be a rich man.

The truth is we will know after it happens. But we do have the general idea of what will take place.

 

[Friend]

Your logic is total assumption! You are assuming that you know the results of the previous 5 vials on earth.

You have no idea and neither does anyone else how conventional military operations have been effected.

God has determined that the nations of the world led by the anti-christ will meet together at a place called Armageddon.

So you assume, acting as though Revelation gives you all that info for you to make figurative claims of what you think will happen.

What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery!

Charlie24 says:
What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery![/QUOTE]

Hey everybody notice the ancient Hebrew Calendar (Copy/Paste/link/below) That the First trumpet sounds at the beginning of the 7th Month (Beginning of the week) followed by the Day Of Atonement; then in the middle of the week Tabernacles (when Israel flees the city) Tabernacles/tents comprehending makeshift places of worship for those having escaped from the city; but 1260 days later the nations will be helping the Jews return to their promise land.​

Maybe someone here can post all the verses (which are many) stating all this to be true...​

https://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_5a.html​

Charlie24: You have the very testimony of one having been blinded: One trying to teach what you yourself confess not knowing. Your saying you don't know anything; Yet your narrative has the whole promise parched/destroyed; rather than the people of Israel returning to a land flowing with milk and honey... You hold to the doctrines of the RCC/Great Harlot/the doctrines of demons; an organization that will never come to the knowledge of the truth, but rather be destroyed forever:

Rev 18:21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.​

 

[Friend]

How many in this world have figured it out, they have the answer, they received it from the Holy Spirit?
Every account is different and if I had a dollar bill for every one of them, I'd be a rich man.
The truth is we will know after it happens. But we do have the general idea of what will take place.

Charlie24 said:​

"How many in this world have figured it out, they have the answer, they received it from the Holy Spirit?"​

"Every account is different and if I had a dollar bill for every one of them, I'd be a rich man.
The truth is we will know after it happens. But we do have the general idea of what will take place.​

"​

Every account is different because the RCC Switched the Six Seal and 6th Trumpet; making it appear as though Israel/Jerusalem was destroyed Rather than Vatican City / Headquarters / Babylon the Great "who sits on many waters". The "Iron and the clay"

The Jews don't have a history of mingling with merchant military/Iron looters.

The Iron will Rise from the dead/7th beast "who's wound is healed"/future: But the Harlot was ""destined to be secure"" and survived the demise of all her beasts; even She has one more great beasty back ride.

But only until the 7th vial/bowl of Wrath.

​

 

[Charlie24]

Charlie24 says:
What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery!

Hey everybody notice the ancient Hebrew Calendar (Copy/Paste/link/below) That the First trumpet sounds at the beginning of the 7th Month (Beginning of the week) followed by the Day Of Atonement; then in the middle of the week Tabernacles (when Israel flees the city) Tabernacles/tents comprehending makeshift places of worship for those having escaped from the city; but 1260 days later the nations will be helping the Jews return to their promise land.​

Maybe someone here can post all the verses (which are many) stating all this to be true...​

https://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/C_5a.html​

Charlie24: You have the very testimony of one having been blinded: One trying to teach what you yourself confess not knowing. Your saying you don't know anything; Yet your narrative has the whole promise parched/destroyed; rather than the people of Israel returning to a land flowing with milk and honey... You hold to the doctrines of the RCC/Great Harlot/the doctrines of demons; an organization that will never come to the knowledge of the truth, but rather be destroyed forever:

Rev 18:21 Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.​

[/QUOTE]

Yea, how many had His first coming nailed? The same will apply to His Second Coming!

Anyone who believes they have the the true inside scope is deceiving themselves.

It's not that the message is not given, it's that man is not capable of accepting that message without messing it up!

 

[Rondonmon]

How many in this world have figured it out, they have the answer, they received it from the Holy Spirit?

Every account is different and if I had a dollar bill for every one of them, I'd be a rich man.

The truth is we will know after it happens. But we do have the general idea of what will take place.

That's not my problem per se is it? I am the type to never say anything is this way or that way, when I was called unto prophecy, it took me over 30 years to understand what all this stuff meant in full, and during that time no one ever saw me saying this is this and that means this and that etc. I WAIT on the Lord or I stay quite. So, about 5 or 6 years ago, in prayer one night I simply asked the Holy Spirit, "Lord, why is it you called me to prophecy specifically, and you also promised that in the last days you would pour out your spirit on us and reveal deep secrets (Dan. 12) unto us in these last days, but yet there are 100s of understandings of who the Harlot is, who the Beasts are, what Babylon is, who the 144,000 are, why are we as a Church us disjointed and confused Lord? There is only ONE TRUTH"

And I got this from the Holy Spirit, its always short and sweet to me.

"Ron, you guys already know it all"

This revolutionized my walk with God because I instantly understood where I had gone wrong for 30 years, why I had been stuck in a rut, I saw it immediately. God was simply saying, why don't you just ASK ME? I got chills !! I immediately understood that the reason the Church was all over the place is we via the Gospels read them and asked God, Lord what does this mean, for the most part, but with the book of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel etc. etc. we read Hal Lindsey, or listened to other preachers (MEN) thus we all passed down men's traditions, because as young Christians we all saw these things as way over our heads, thus we placed a ROAD BLOCK in front of God, He had to find a way to get us to stop believing all of the wrong think we had acquired before He could teach us properly. Once I understood this, I understood I needed to hear YOU ARE WRONG by the Lord, so I asked God to always show me when I was wrong.

A blog I had worked on for a long time about Babylon I had just finished up (5 or so years ago) and was going to put it up or post it, and it said Rome was Babylon (of Course) and as I read Rev. 17 one last time before posting, the Holy Spirit was like "you are wrong Ron" and he was like see that in verse 18? It says what John SAW..........Now go back and LOOK at what John actually SAW Ron. When I did I saw the vision was like only 4 verses long, Rev. 17:3-6, and thus I finally saw it, John was speaking about all Harlot Religions of all time, she was a MYSTERY as in Secret that God was about to reveal:

MYSTERY = a Header as in a question mark (?)
1.) Babylon the Great is associated with FALSE RELIGION

2.) Mother of Harlotry is the worshiping of false gods

3.) Abominations of the Earth means God hates the worshiping of false gods.

So, the MYSTERY is that we are given THREE DESCRIPTORS that describe who this Harlot is, and she is ALL False Religion of All Time. Now studying the other few verses gives this extra enlightenment. Purple & Scarlet is not the RCC per se, it stands for ALL Royals and Religious Orders, in that those two colors were very expensive to create (Google it) and thus the Royals and Religious Orders always wore those two colors because they were very exclusive, even Israel's High Priests wore purple. That's the first wrong turn a lot of people make against the RCC. Secondly, we see that she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus, John mentioning this proves that this Harlot False Religious entity, was around BEFORE the Cross an AFTER the Cross, thus she is ALL False Religion of All Time. In verse 3 we see she has 7 Heads and 10 Horns telling us she has been associated with ALL of these Seven False Government Beasts also, and we know they all served false gods. She was also full of blasphemy and filthy abominations decked out in pearls, gold, and precious stones and a golden cup of Abominations. NOW....go look at Dan. 5 where Babylon Falls, the Mene mene tekel chapter. They drank out of God's holy chalices/cups etc. thus God took their kingdom from them that very night. Babylon Falls !!

So, it was never Rome, as we learned in verse 18, some called it Jerusalem, etc, but it was really and truly just about FALSE RELIGION, associated with Babylon, the Mother of Harlotry (false gods) and Abominations.

As I learned to hear clearly, YOU ARE WRONG Ron, I then learned how to stop going by things we had learned from other men, things that blocked us from learning God's truths. Remember when Jesus told the Pharisees, you are full of Men's Traditions? That is why we have 100s of interpretations. I don't care about the 99, that's not my problem per se. When you get to heaven, you will see clearly, then you will see and understand in full. My job is to put forth the truth, its not to be accepted by men.

God Bless

 

[Pablo2021]

Charlie24 said:
"​

Every account is different because the RCC Switched the Six Seal and 6th Trumpet; making it appear as though Israel/Jerusalem was destroyed Rather than Vatican City / Headquarters / Babylon the Great "who sits on many waters". The "Iron and the clay"

The Jews don't have a history of mingling with merchant military/Iron looters.

The Iron will Rise from the dead/7th beast "who's wound is healed"/future: But the Harlot was ""destined to be secure"" and survived the demise of all her beasts; even She has one more great beasty back ride.

But only until the 7th vial/bowl of Wrath.

​

Thank God this FAKE, self-proclaimed ""Mother Church"/Babylon the Great Harlot sitting on many waters will last not longer than 7 years after the real church is gone. I always wondered, "Come on, God, how is it that you allowed your beloved to sing Halleluja over and over again for the Great Harlot's fall and destruction?" "Isn't it too rude on Your part?..." ....

But thank God now I get it: They sing because the power of her spells is no more!!; the world will stop drinking of the wine of her immoralities. And I can fully relate; because, just as I expressed a short while ago: Having been born and raised, and still living in a country, you either are aware of the thick darkness this religion has enshrouded us for centuries, or you just don't, thinking that this is a pious country.... Anuway, I can rightly anticiapate to the Hallelujahs in heaven even though I know She still has got some power, but not forever; but her end will be perpetual destruction. Hallelujah!!!

[Rev 19:1-3 KJV] 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

 

[Friend]

Yea, how many had His first coming nailed? The same will apply to His Second Coming!

Anyone who believes they have the the true inside scope is deceiving themselves.

It's not that the message is not given, it's that man is not capable of accepting that message without messing it up!

only a minority of the Jews were involved in Jesus' execution: Luke 24:18-20​

2Pe 1:3 Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfected result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

The testimony of the Harlot I know well, because at one time I was deep on the inside; it's the testimony of ones having not been washed...​

So what your saying: You might be among those who murder the two witnesses?​

Hello Charlie24: here are (two regular men that Jesus was talking to) that knew it was only a minority of the Jews that were involved in Jesus' execution. But that's the story we were getting from the Harlot; for more than 1800 years: that a majority of the Jews were involved in His murder: When it was actually those who were colluding with Rome. Over and over in the scriptures we see that Jesus had tremendous popularity among the regular people!​

Luk 24:18-20 One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, "Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?" 19 And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and of the people", 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him.​

Yes The RCC (with her daughters) with Saint Hippolytus of Rome really messed up when the whole organization adopted full blown policy of anti-Semitism, even maintaining these teachings while "filling Her cup full of Blood" for almost 1800 years before modern communications shed light on this clandestine synagogue of Satan. This organization Claiming Peter like the Pharisees were claiming Moses or Abraham; but Jesus was exposing's them to be frauds, with the Apostle Paul Calling us to do the Same.

Mat 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

1Co 11:1 Paul saying: "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ."

Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them. ​

These were the Religious frauds in collusions with Rome; even the model of who the potter would be in the future...​

Rev 2:26 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS 27 HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, just as I also have received authority from My Father;​

These are men bound to the traditions of murder, but say, "Oh no body really knows." But this is not what Peter Says.

2Pe 1:3 Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

If nobody knows, then why are these (with the legacy of the blood filled cup) being held guilty? Everyone who has even a remnant of the Spirit of God knows you don't go around the world while riding the backs of beasts who are looting the wealth of the nations; even accepting every donations from them. Using the proceeds to buy fields for the sake of building towers in the blood soaked lands of foreigners. She being the open grave, very cemetery for peoples all over the world. And with those clothed with the Spirit; we can spot a wolf in sheep's clothing, we know the difference between a sheep and a goat.

Rev 17:4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

Rev 18:7-8 "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.' 8 "For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.​

 

[Friend]

only a minority of the Jews that were involved in Jesus' execution.

 

[Absolutely]

only a minority of the Jews were involved in Jesus' execution: Luke 24:18-20​

2Pe 1:3 Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfected result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

The testimony of the Harlot I know well, because at one time I was deep on the inside; it's the testimony of ones having not been washed...​

So what your saying: You might be among those who murder the two witnesses?​

Hello Charlie24: here are (two regular men that Jesus was talking to) that knew it was only a minority of the Jews that were involved in Jesus' execution. But that's the story we were getting from the Harlot; for more than 1800 years: that a majority of the Jews were involved in His murder: When it was actually those who were colluding with Rome. Over and over in the scriptures we see that Jesus had tremendous popularity among the regular people!​

Luk 24:18-20 One of them, named Cleopas, answered and said to Him, "Are You the only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here in these days?" 19 And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and of the people", 20 and how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to the sentence of death, and crucified Him.​

Yes The RCC (with her daughters) with Saint Hippolytus of Rome really messed up when the whole organization adopted full blown policy of anti-Semitism, even maintaining these teachings while "filling Her cup full of Blood" for almost 1800 years before modern communications shed light on this clandestine synagogue of Satan. This organization Claiming Peter like the Pharisees were claiming Moses or Abraham; but Jesus was exposing's them to be frauds, with the Apostle Paul Calling us to do the Same.

Mat 23:25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

1Co 11:1 Paul saying: "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ."

Eph 5:11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them. ​

These were the Religious frauds in collusions with Rome; even the model of who the potter would be in the future...​

Rev 2:26 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS 27 HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, WHEN THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, just as I also have received authority from My Father;​

These are men bound to the traditions of murder, but say, "Oh no body really knows." But this is not what Peter Says.

2Pe 1:3 Seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

If nobody knows, then why are these (with the legacy of the blood filled cup) being held guilty? Everyone who has even a remnant of the Spirit of God knows you don't go around the world while riding the backs of beasts who are looting the wealth of the nations; even accepting every donations from them. Using the proceeds to buy fields for the sake of building towers in the blood soaked lands of foreigners. She being the open grave, very cemetery for peoples all over the world. And with those clothed with the Spirit; we can spot a wolf in sheep's clothing, we know the difference between a sheep and a goat.

Rev 17:4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality,

Rev 18:7-8 "To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.' 8 "For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.​

VCO ....a member here, has extensive posts in another thread about the rcc being the whore.
I think he got his info from dave hunt's book " A Woman Rides the Beast"....not sure though

 

[Absolutely]

That's not my problem per se is it? I am the type to never say anything is this way or that way, when I was called unto prophecy, it took me over 30 years to understand what all this stuff meant in full, and during that time no one ever saw me saying this is this and that means this and that etc. I WAIT on the Lord or I stay quite. So, about 5 or 6 years ago, in prayer one night I simply asked the Holy Spirit, "Lord, why is it you called me to prophecy specifically, and you also promised that in the last days you would pour out your spirit on us and reveal deep secrets (Dan. 12) unto us in these last days, but yet there are 100s of understandings of who the Harlot is, who the Beasts are, what Babylon is, who the 144,000 are, why are we as a Church us disjointed and confused Lord? There is only ONE TRUTH"

And I got this from the Holy Spirit, its always short and sweet to me.

"Ron, you guys already know it all"

This revolutionized my walk with God because I instantly understood where I had gone wrong for 30 years, why I had been stuck in a rut, I saw it immediately. God was simply saying, why don't you just ASK ME? I got chills !! I immediately understood that the reason the Church was all over the place is we via the Gospels read them and asked God, Lord what does this mean, for the most part, but with the book of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel etc. etc. we read Hal Lindsey, or listened to other preachers (MEN) thus we all passed down men's traditions, because as young Christians we all saw these things as way over our heads, thus we placed a ROAD BLOCK in front of God, He had to find a way to get us to stop believing all of the wrong think we had acquired before He could teach us properly. Once I understood this, I understood I needed to hear YOU ARE WRONG by the Lord, so I asked God to always show me when I was wrong.

A blog I had worked on for a long time about Babylon I had just finished up (5 or so years ago) and was going to put it up or post it, and it said Rome was Babylon (of Course) and as I read Rev. 17 one last time before posting, the Holy Spirit was like "you are wrong Ron" and he was like see that in verse 18? It says what John SAW..........Now go back and LOOK at what John actually SAW Ron. When I did I saw the vision was like only 4 verses long, Rev. 17:3-6, and thus I finally saw it, John was speaking about all Harlot Religions of all time, she was a MYSTERY as in Secret that God was about to reveal:

MYSTERY = a Header as in a question mark (?)
1.) Babylon the Great is associated with FALSE RELIGION

2.) Mother of Harlotry is the worshiping of false gods

3.) Abominations of the Earth means God hates the worshiping of false gods.

So, the MYSTERY is that we are given THREE DESCRIPTORS that describe who this Harlot is, and she is ALL False Religion of All Time. Now studying the other few verses gives this extra enlightenment. Purple & Scarlet is not the RCC per se, it stands for ALL Royals and Religious Orders, in that those two colors were very expensive to create (Google it) and thus the Royals and Religious Orders always wore those two colors because they were very exclusive, even Israel's High Priests wore purple. That's the first wrong turn a lot of people make against the RCC. Secondly, we see that she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus, John mentioning this proves that this Harlot False Religious entity, was around BEFORE the Cross an AFTER the Cross, thus she is ALL False Religion of All Time. In verse 3 we see she has 7 Heads and 10 Horns telling us she has been associated with ALL of these Seven False Government Beasts also, and we know they all served false gods. She was also full of blasphemy and filthy abominations decked out in pearls, gold, and precious stones and a golden cup of Abominations. NOW....go look at Dan. 5 where Babylon Falls, the Mene mene tekel chapter. They drank out of God's holy chalices/cups etc. thus God took their kingdom from them that very night. Babylon Falls !!

So, it was never Rome, as we learned in verse 18, some called it Jerusalem, etc, but it was really and truly just about FALSE RELIGION, associated with Babylon, the Mother of Harlotry (false gods) and Abominations.

As I learned to hear clearly, YOU ARE WRONG Ron, I then learned how to stop going by things we had learned from other men, things that blocked us from learning God's truths. Remember when Jesus told the Pharisees, you are full of Men's Traditions? That is why we have 100s of interpretations. I don't care about the 99, that's not my problem per se. When you get to heaven, you will see clearly, then you will see and understand in full. My job is to put forth the truth, its not to be accepted by men.

God Bless

In a forum, the devine guidance and revelation that people claim has to be backed up.
We do not know you.
Further, all erroneous doctrine claims devine revelation.

 

[Absolutely]

That's not my problem per se is it? I am the type to never say anything is this way or that way, when I was called unto prophecy, it took me over 30 years to understand what all this stuff meant in full, and during that time no one ever saw me saying this is this and that means this and that etc. I WAIT on the Lord or I stay quite. So, about 5 or 6 years ago, in prayer one night I simply asked the Holy Spirit, "Lord, why is it you called me to prophecy specifically, and you also promised that in the last days you would pour out your spirit on us and reveal deep secrets (Dan. 12) unto us in these last days, but yet there are 100s of understandings of who the Harlot is, who the Beasts are, what Babylon is, who the 144,000 are, why are we as a Church us disjointed and confused Lord? There is only ONE TRUTH"

And I got this from the Holy Spirit, its always short and sweet to me.

"Ron, you guys already know it all"

This revolutionized my walk with God because I instantly understood where I had gone wrong for 30 years, why I had been stuck in a rut, I saw it immediately. God was simply saying, why don't you just ASK ME? I got chills !! I immediately understood that the reason the Church was all over the place is we via the Gospels read them and asked God, Lord what does this mean, for the most part, but with the book of Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel etc. etc. we read Hal Lindsey, or listened to other preachers (MEN) thus we all passed down men's traditions, because as young Christians we all saw these things as way over our heads, thus we placed a ROAD BLOCK in front of God, He had to find a way to get us to stop believing all of the wrong think we had acquired before He could teach us properly. Once I understood this, I understood I needed to hear YOU ARE WRONG by the Lord, so I asked God to always show me when I was wrong.

A blog I had worked on for a long time about Babylon I had just finished up (5 or so years ago) and was going to put it up or post it, and it said Rome was Babylon (of Course) and as I read Rev. 17 one last time before posting, the Holy Spirit was like "you are wrong Ron" and he was like see that in verse 18? It says what John SAW..........Now go back and LOOK at what John actually SAW Ron. When I did I saw the vision was like only 4 verses long, Rev. 17:3-6, and thus I finally saw it, John was speaking about all Harlot Religions of all time, she was a MYSTERY as in Secret that God was about to reveal:

MYSTERY = a Header as in a question mark (?)
1.) Babylon the Great is associated with FALSE RELIGION

2.) Mother of Harlotry is the worshiping of false gods

3.) Abominations of the Earth means God hates the worshiping of false gods.

So, the MYSTERY is that we are given THREE DESCRIPTORS that describe who this Harlot is, and she is ALL False Religion of All Time. Now studying the other few verses gives this extra enlightenment. Purple & Scarlet is not the RCC per se, it stands for ALL Royals and Religious Orders, in that those two colors were very expensive to create (Google it) and thus the Royals and Religious Orders always wore those two colors because they were very exclusive, even Israel's High Priests wore purple. That's the first wrong turn a lot of people make against the RCC. Secondly, we see that she has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus, John mentioning this proves that this Harlot False Religious entity, was around BEFORE the Cross an AFTER the Cross, thus she is ALL False Religion of All Time. In verse 3 we see she has 7 Heads and 10 Horns telling us she has been associated with ALL of these Seven False Government Beasts also, and we know they all served false gods. She was also full of blasphemy and filthy abominations decked out in pearls, gold, and precious stones and a golden cup of Abominations. NOW....go look at Dan. 5 where Babylon Falls, the Mene mene tekel chapter. They drank out of God's holy chalices/cups etc. thus God took their kingdom from them that very night. Babylon Falls !!

So, it was never Rome, as we learned in verse 18, some called it Jerusalem, etc, but it was really and truly just about FALSE RELIGION, associated with Babylon, the Mother of Harlotry (false gods) and Abominations.

As I learned to hear clearly, YOU ARE WRONG Ron, I then learned how to stop going by things we had learned from other men, things that blocked us from learning God's truths. Remember when Jesus told the Pharisees, you are full of Men's Traditions? That is why we have 100s of interpretations. I don't care about the 99, that's not my problem per se. When you get to heaven, you will see clearly, then you will see and understand in full. My job is to put forth the truth, its not to be accepted by men.

God Bless

God DOES NOT give ALL REVELATION to ONE MAN.

He gives his people pieces.

Together we make up the whole.

So you need to provide a link to like minded brethren or a group that has this " babylon is all false religion" idea.

When you read of her destruction and sailors lamenting, it is clear it is a single location.

 

[Absolutely]

Parenthetical Citation definition = Parenthetical citations are citations to original sources that appear in the text of your paper. This allows the reader to see immediately where your information comes from, and it saves you the trouble of having to make footnotes or endnotes.

Parenthetical citations are notes in parentheses that let a reader know what original sources you used in the body of your research paper. These notes make it easier for the reader because they don't have to stop reading to know what is source material. In other words, the parenthetical notes don't disrupt the flow of the paper. This saves the writer from having to create endnotes or footnotes, and it gives the reader immediate access to the sources.

God uses this in a much grander way, God now shows John in Rev. chapters 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18 and most of Rev. 19 "OTHER EVENTS" that happen at the exact same time on earth as Rev. 8, 9 and 16, the Judgment Chapters. In other words God's Wrath starts with the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments, we see these Judgments also in Rev. 9 and 16.

In Revelation 10 however we are shown John swallowing a book that was both sour and sweet, then he is told that when the 7 Thunders Sound the Mystery of God would finally be revealed in full and "time would be no more" [as we know it]. This simply means that when the 7 Trumpets Sound, and God has Judged this evil world, Jesus will take over and time as we once knew it will be no more, Satan will lose his kingdom, and Jesus will become King of kings and Lord of lords on this earth. Thus he now sits at God's side, but soon God will give Jesus this earth for his kingdom also. That is the mystery of the 7 Thunders. Jesus will take over after the 7th Thunder as Rev.11 and 16 clearly shows us. Thus Rev. 10 is a FLASHFORWARD to the very end of Satan's reign on this earth. Babylon has Fallen!!

Rev. chapter 11 is about the calling/parameters of the Two-witnesses 1260 day ministry on this earth. We understand that they die as the 2nd Woe before the Beast dies at the 7th Vial during the 3rd Woe so that means they have to show up before the Beast conquers Israel at the 1260 middle of the week event. Because both we know that the Two-witnesses and the Beast have 1260 day Ordained Offices on this earth as ordered by God. He does that so we humans can understand these end time timelines by juxtaposing them against each other. There is no reason that Elijah (and I think Moses), are allowed to die except to give us a juxtaposition of their timelines, where we can deduce/understand their timelines. Thus we know the Two-witnesses have to show up before the Anti-Christ Conquers Israel to become the Beast at the 1260, thus the Two-witnesses are indeed the 1335 Blessing. They show up 1335 days before the Second Coming (ends all these wonders as Dan. 12 says) and thus they show up 75 days before the Beast conquers Israel and 45 days before the False Prophet/Jewish High Priest stops or forbids Jesus Worship (takes away the Sacrifice) in the temple, then places the AoD of the E.U. President in the Temple as Rev. 13 says he does (makes an image of the Beast). So, this chapter starts 75 days before Rev. chapter 8 starts. Then the Two-witnesses get Israel to repent (1/3 of the Jews repent in Zechariah 13:8-9) just before the coming Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath) falls at the 1260 event (Zechariah 14:1-2). In Rev. 11:1-3 we can see they are called unto the Jews ONLY via the Measurements shown. The 7th Trump which ends Satan's reign, and where Jesus takes over is not a real time event in the book of Revelation as per this chapter, this is a Parenthetical Citation Chapter (REMEMBER) thus this Rev. 11, Seventh Trump is a rehashing of the Rev. 16 Seven Vials which ends via the 7th Vial and Jesus taking over. We are told that the 3rd Woe will come quickly in Rev. 11, then we are told that the 7th Trump will bring victory via the 3rd Woe (which is all 7 Vials combined), Jesus conquers and that victory is described in Rev. 16 in full. Just like the 2nd Woe being mentioned in Rev. 11 also does not describe the 2nd Woe, which we see via the Rev. 9 actions of the actual 2nd Woe in full !! So, in essence, God gives us one whole chapter about the lives and times of the Two-witnesses which covers 1335 days until Jesus' Second Coming ends all these wonders Daniel was shown in Dan. chapter 12. So this chapter starts just before Rev. 8 and ends with Rev. 16:19.

Rev. 12 is Israel being chased into the wilderness where God will protect her (Woman) for 1260 days, so it starts with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact or just before because she starts fleeing 30 days before she gets Conquered, but Rev. 12 is about God protecting Israel for 1260 days and Satan being cast down to earth at that point in time also. So, as pertaining unto the last 3.5 years timeline, this chapter overlaps all of the Judgment chapters (Rev. 8, 9 and 16.)

Rev. 13 starts with the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact also, we know this because that is when the White Horse goes forth conquering amidst the chaos. So, this White Horse/Anti-Christ, rules for 42 months during the Trumpet Judgments (seen in Rev. 8) and the Rev. 9 Trumpets/2 Woes and the Rev. 16 Vials/3rd Woe.

Revelation chapter 14 is The Harvest Chapter, we see the 144,000 (3-5 million Jews) and Jesus shows up and Harvests the Wheat (Israel) in the first few verses. In verses 17-20 we see the Wine-press Wrath via the Grape Harvest of the Wicked. But in verse 14 we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre-trib Rapture where Jesus himself thrusts in the sickle to Harvest the Church (Barley) from upon a cloud (we meet him in the air). Barley doesn't need to be crushed before it can be sifted. Thus this chapter covers the full 7 years.

Rev. chapter 17 comes next, this chapter also starts in Rev. 8 via the 10 Kings (E.U. Leaders) coming together to plot the Harlots demise, but the actual Harlot covers all time on earth because this Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time. She is the worshiping of Jupiter, Zeus, the Horoscope and Babylonian religions, she is Baal worship etc. all, and she is also Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism worship as well as Humanism etc. any religion that does not say that the God of Abraham is God and that Jesus Christ is His beloved son who died for all mankind's sin is a Harlot Religion. The Harlot gets killed off by these 10 Kings ( 10 = Completion or All of Collective Europe Combined). So, this story is about what goes down during the Anti-Christs 42 month rule on earth, and these kings forbidding all religious practices except Beast Worship, and thus they "Kill off the Harlot [Religions]. And it is also about Apollyon arising out of the Bottomless Pit, the Demon who kills the Two-witnesses. (He WAS....IS NOT.....YET IS)

CONTINUED.....
C

"""Revelation chapter 14 is The Harvest Chapter, we see the 144,000 (3-5 million Jews) and Jesus shows up and Harvests the Wheat (Israel) in the first few verses. In verses 17-20 we see the Wine-press Wrath via the Grape Harvest of the Wicked. But in verse 14 we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre-trib Rapture where Jesus himself thrusts in the sickle to Harvest the Church (Barley) from upon a cloud (we meet him in the air). Barley doesn't need to be crushed before it can be sifted. Thus this chapter covers the full 7 years."""

Ok this is really bad how you reframed ch14.

You missed totally that the 144 k Jews are firstfruits.
Once that is omitted, you proceed??????
But you also transpose 144k into 3-5 million????????

I think you are doing that to make that false concept of "barley does not need crushing" a defining dynamic.

Ok, rev 14 is the grape harvest.
No grain.
It is the gathering of the jews.

Jesus first miracle was involving grapes ( Jews)
It was declared, "you saved the best for last"
The Jews are the last group seated at the marriage supper.
Rev 14 is that dynamic
It is not ,by any means ,"a flashback to the main rapture"

 

[FreeGrace2]

"""Revelation chapter 14 is The Harvest Chapter, we see the 144,000 (3-5 million Jews) and Jesus shows up and Harvests the Wheat (Israel) in the first few verses. In verses 17-20 we see the Wine-press Wrath via the Grape Harvest of the Wicked. But in verse 14 we see a FLASHBACK to the Pre-trib Rapture where Jesus himself thrusts in the sickle to Harvest the Church (Barley) from upon a cloud (we meet him in the air). Barley doesn't need to be crushed before it can be sifted. Thus this chapter covers the full 7 years."""

Ok this is really bad how you reframed ch14.

You missed totally that the 144 k Jews are firstfruits.

You did. So says the Bible.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Acts 26:23 - that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

So Acts 26:23 explains WHY Jesus is called "the firstfruits". He is the first human to receive a glorified body.

 

[Absolutely]

I was thinking about the rapture earlier and realized the rapture is a world wide event. The coming on horses is local to israel.

Hmmmmmm.

Food for thought. Lets say the rapture starts on the east coast of canada ,USA, and south america. Allow 1 hour or so for that gathering as angels sound the warning to those waiting for their groom Jesus. Next the angels start with the next time zone to the West. That would take another hour or so. Next the angels Warren those waiting for cheese in the western or Pacific time zone. That should take another hour or two to gather those millions of people. Next the Angels proceeded to Warn those in Alaska and Hawaii. That might take 30 minutes or an hour. And so on across the entire planet. Each portion of the globe experiencing the Rapture all around midnight. I am not saying that is exactly how it happens just wondering if that viewpoint could be correct.

But...to be sure..... It blows a huge hole in the theory of postrib rapture.

 

[stilllearning]

Your logic is total assumption! You are assuming that you know the results of the previous 5 vials on earth.

You have no idea and neither does anyone else how conventional military operations have been effected.

God has determined that the nations of the world led by the anti-christ will meet together at a place called Armageddon.

So you assume, acting as though Revelation gives you all that info for you to make figurative claims of what you think will happen.

What will happen is exactly what God has willed to happen and none of us know how that takes place! We only have a general idea, nothing more. The details of how all this takes place is a complete mystery!

Just using your post as a launching point bro. So with that said I easily find that the verse is not figurative. Reason being is you can go back for the last twenty years and read articles about how the dams that Turkey has built is a big problem and will affect water flow in the years to come.

Even articles wondering if the next war in the Mideast will be over the water flow and Turkish dams. Even articles calling Turkey a water terrorist. So the bible saying that the Euphrates is dried up can read literal to me since the headlines for the last twenty years have been reporting how the Turkish dams can be that problematic.

The Colorado river no longer flows to the Pacific, part of the Colorado river has dried up, because of the way it has been dammed and the water usage so what stops the same for the Euphrates happening in the future as written in the book of Revelations.

So again knowing that is not what you said but just using your post as a launching point to address the previous comment.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I was thinking about the rapture earlier and realized the rapture is a world wide event. The coming on horses is local to israel.

Hmmmmmm.

Food for thought. Lets say the rapture starts on the east coast of canada ,USA, and south america. Allow 1 hour or so for that gathering as angels sound the warning to those waiting for their groom Jesus. Next the angels start with the next time zone to the West. That would take another hour or so. Next the angels Warren those waiting for cheese in the western or Pacific time zone. That should take another hour or two to gather those millions of people. Next the Angels proceeded to Warn those in Alaska and Hawaii. That might take 30 minutes or an hour. And so on across the entire planet. Each portion of the globe experiencing the Rapture all around midnight. I am not saying that is exactly how it happens just wondering if that viewpoint could be correct.

But...to be sure..... It blows a huge hole in the theory of postrib rapture.

Not even close.

Pretribbers continue to emphasize the very small number of believers who will be gathered up into the clouds to receive their glorified bodies, just after all the saints who have already died physically get theirs. The number that comes with Jesus will be HUGE compared to the number of living believers on earth.

And pretribbers seem unable to comprehend the fact that the Bible teaches ONLY one resurrection (when every believer receives a glorified body). And they blow it by placing it before the Tribulation. So that would leave out all the martyrs who died during the Tribulation. Yet, Rev 20:5 calls that resurrection the FIRST resurrection.

There are 2 total. One for the saved (Luke 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23) and one for the unsaved (Acts 24:15).

I challenge pretribbers to refute the SINGLE resurrection for the saved by addressing each of these verses above and using proper exegesis show how these verses don't really mean just one resurrection.

Or, even more easily, just show the verses that clearly show multiple resurrections (or what pretribbers call THE Rapture)

And, while you're at it, please find a verse that shows Jesus taking believers with glorified bodies to heaven.

That alone would end all argument about it.

 

[Rondonmon]

In a forum, the devine guidance and revelation that people claim has to be backed up.
We do not know you.
Further, all erroneous doctrine claims devine revelation.

This tells me about you in essence. Remember I stated I never say things until I know, that I know, that I know its of God? The flip side is whenever, WHENEVER, I hear a truth from the Holy Spirit I know it, no matter who speaks it.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

So, we have 100 of understandings and you don't understand the Church is in terrible shape? And why is it? Because most are so busy with loving this evil world that the never hear the Spirit when it presents truths unto them. Most people are like Martha, they are so distracted with worldly things they miss the good thing (God/Jesus), Mary sat at Jesus' feet, and Martha was upset because she was doing all the work (preoccupied), but Jesus rebuked Martha, many people miss God's truths because they are too preoccupied with this worlds goings on. Whenever I see people mock the Holy Spirit like they do with Benny Hinn and others, I understand right away they have NO DISCERNEMENT whatsoever.

Likewise, I don't need no men's approval sir, I work of the Lord, the discernment of the things that are of God and which are not of God is on you. God will require us to explain why we got things wrong, and fir the most part, TBH, its because we do not spend enough time in the Spirit/in Prayer. So, the whole "Doctrinal understanding" falls on you and others. The Holy Spirit always understands the Holy Spirit. The spirit always bears witness of itself.

You missed totally that the 144 k Jews are firstfruits.

It needs not be stated, every grain has a FIRST-FRUIT, not just one grain. It simply means those that ripened first. So, ALL the Barley comes in before the Wheat mostly, but the Wheat still has a First-fruit, just like the Barley does.

Once that is omitted, you proceed??????
But you also transpose 144k into 3-5 million????????

Nothing is omitted, the thing that puts you down a rabbit hole here is not understanding that all grains and fruits have First-fruits. Yes, the 144,000 (3-5 million Jews who repent) are First fruits, as are the Raptured Church (Barley). As are the Wicked Grapes of Rev. 14:17-20.

I think you are doing that to make that false concept of "barley does not need crushing" a defining dynamic.

What I get, reading on down, is you had a concept and you are seemingly stuck on it, you can't hear the words "You are wrong" thus the Barley can't come first even though it does. You go so far as to disagree with me about an article that clearly shows different, people do not just write articles without doing research, and even though this proves the Pre Trib Rapture (which I think you agree with) you can't bring yourself to shed that old argument of yours, like I did with Babylon being Rome. So, let me try this in another way, since I have always liked you, I think your heart is in the right place, you are not a wisenhiemer, most of the time you are earnest in thought. So, you think God will not give His revelation to one man who seeks harder than others? Its just the opposite, He gives us riddles because we SHOULD understand, but the world will not understand his truths!!

Matt. 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

So, we are given the keys (Spirit) to understand all these things, Jesus gave John in the book of Revelation (BoR), thus just like the parables he spoke unto the world, he likewise speaks in code/riddles/parables so to speak in the whole BoR.

So, Jesus in the BoR gives us Old Testament references and references to things he spoke during his lifetime on earth. In Matt. 13 we get the Wheat and the tares parable, Jesus says he came ONLY unto the Jews so the Jews who grow together with the wicked tares until the very end have to be the Wheat. The grapes are always used to infer the Judgment of God via placing the wicked in the Wine-press of His Wrath.

As I stated the other day, with modern machines, of course they now crush the barley just like the wheat, because it is easy to do that way. The reason Barley was considered a poor mans grain/bread 2000 years ago is that they could get by without crushing it, but you might find a few tough spots in it (husks) but with wheat that wouldn't work, so it had to be crushed. No ones saying you can't crush Barley and make it better, that goes without saying, but that is why Barley was cheaper at that time. In modern times we can get an ordinary car or one souped up. All cars ae not the same, likewise back in the day Barley was far cheaper because of the process/time it took. You citing the way modern Barley is harvested has no relevance to 2000 years ago.

Jesus first miracle was involving grapes ( Jews)
It was declared, "you saved the best for last"
The Jews are the last group seated at the marriage supper.
Rev 14 is that dynamic
It is not ,by any means ,"a flashback to the main rapture"

We get the Three Harvests in Rev. 14, the whole problem you are having is you had something already solved in your mind and you seemingly can't get past that hurdle. Jesus shows up on the Mount, the Jews are not really with him, they are in the Petra/Bozrah Wilderness. Read Isaiah 63:1, he comes from Edom and Bozrah with blood stained garments. So, Jesus harvests the Wheat which has a First-fruits who are the 144,000 (that doesn't need to be said in reality, I however know why you mention it, because of the Pre Trib Rapture, they however are Barley First-fruits), but he doesn't actually bring them with him as he lands, it just showing Jesus is going to reign amongst his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem for 1000 years thus he is Harvesting them into His Barn so to speak like the parable says. Then in verse 14 we see Jesus Harvest not from the Mount in Jerusalem (this should be a HUGE CLUE for you) but from upon a cloud, just like the Scriptures say happen in the Pre Trib Rapture, we are called up to be with Jesus. He thrusts in the sickle himself. In the Rev. 14:17-20 Harvest an Angel thrusts in the Sickle. Jesus is is up on a cloud and you can't see that is the Rapture ? I don't get that thought thought process tbh !!

THINK HERE NOW

Israel is NEVER at the Wedding Supper and why would they be? This happens before the Beast is defeated, which is why Armageddon is the Wedding Super. That is also why Jesus has "Blood on his Garments" when he comes from Edom/Bozrah. Israel have the Fathers name imprinted on their foreheads as Rev. 14:1 clearly says, they are already married unto God the Father. A Bride only as one marriage and marriage supper, not two, Israel are the Fathers bride, we are Jesus' bride. Jacob had two wives, Leah and Rebecca, a foreshadowing of Israel and the Church. One was preferred and the other bride was forced so to speak.

 

[Rondonmon]

He gives his people pieces.

Together we make up the whole.

So you need to provide a link to like minded brethren or a group that has this " babylon is all false religion" idea.

When you read of her destruction and sailors lamenting, it is clear it is a single location.

You mean like God saying it doesn't prove it? Tat odd, I always felt like Gods own words proved these things out. I left this off for a BRIEF POST so you can see it much easier. SHORT AND SWEET.

Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts(Jerusalem/Earthquake/Jesus lands), and the cities of the nations fell (Jesus DEFEATS the Nations/Armageddon): and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto HER the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So, who is God (Almighty God Himself) calling Babylon the Great? Who us the HER in the verse who gets this Fierce and Great Wrath? Lets look up to Vial #6, that should tell us.

Rev. 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So, the HER (Babylon) which God clearly describes is FORETOLD in Vial #6, and it is the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD, So, Babylon and The Harlot are not one and the same Entity, Babylon is World Governance, and she KILLS OFF the Harlot as seen in Rev 17:16, thus the Harlot who has the blood of the Saints AND the Martyrs on her hands can only be False Religion, not False Governance who is Babylon, the RCC was not around before the Cross, and not for 400 years after Jesus died. So, how can the RCC have the blood of the Saints (Jewish Saints) AND the Martyrs of Jesus on her hands? She can't. Harlotry means filthy fornication. It is ALL False Religion of All Time.

And you know what the biggest clue is that no one stops to ponder? Why, after ridding the back of these 6 Beasts for eons does the Last Beast all of the sudden kill of the Harlot? Well, what does the Last Beast do in his life that would require this? He requires ALL MEN to worship the Image of the Beast, thus there is no place for Jupiter or Zeus, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Hinduism, no you can understand why he kills 1/4 on mankind, they refs to worship him as their god. Thus the 10 Kings (Europe) KILL OFF these Harlot Religions, she is thus Judged in Rev. 17.