Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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A pretrib rapture requires more than 1 rapture. And recall from the most cited passage on "the rapture" (1 Thess 4) the rapture occurs with a resurrection. The dead saints that come back with Jesus receive their glorified bodies and then the living believers are "changed in the twinkling of an eye". iow, they then receive their glorified bodies.
So, when one speaks of "the rapture" they must also include a resurrection. Since they always go together.
The pretribbers have several problems. One, there aren't any verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
Second, the Bible clearly teaches just one resurrection (which includes the living believers being "changed"). So that event must be placed carefully on the timeline of history.
If placed before the Tribulation, they have a huge problem. Rev 20:5 notes that martyrs from the Trib will be "raised to life" and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. The verse ends with "this is the FIRST resurrection".
But, if "the rapture" occurs 7 years before, Rev 20:5 cannot be right.
Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection of the saved (FIRST ONE) and a resurrection of the unsaved (second one).
So, when one speaks of "the rapture" they must also include a resurrection. Since they always go together.
The pretribbers have several problems. One, there aren't any verses showing Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
Second, the Bible clearly teaches just one resurrection (which includes the living believers being "changed"). So that event must be placed carefully on the timeline of history.
If placed before the Tribulation, they have a huge problem. Rev 20:5 notes that martyrs from the Trib will be "raised to life" and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. The verse ends with "this is the FIRST resurrection".
But, if "the rapture" occurs 7 years before, Rev 20:5 cannot be right.
Acts 24:15 says there will be a resurrection of the saved (FIRST ONE) and a resurrection of the unsaved (second one).
But, if "the rapture and the resurrection" occur 7 years before, Rev 20:5 cannot be right. There cannot be a resurrection of the dead in Christ years before the first resurrection of the dead in Christ. And since there is be only one resurrection of the dead in Christ called first the resurrection then there can be only one rapture that happens just after it. This is proof the rapture can only happen after the Great Tribulation has ended. Revelation 20 and the Olivet discourse provide that proof.
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Rev 20
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who
share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So people that reign on 1000 kd is
1 people that beheaded for Jesus, it may before tribulation or during tribulation or
2. People that live during tribulation, behaved or not but not take the mark of the beast
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who
share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
So people that reign on 1000 kd is
1 people that beheaded for Jesus, it may before tribulation or during tribulation or
2. People that live during tribulation, behaved or not but not take the mark of the beast
Jesus was "The man in linen" he was he first fruit of the grave, not of the Harvest, he didn't need harvesting, he is eternal, Elijah as taken, Lazarus still died, Jesus was the first to arise forevermore. Notice the bolded says first to rise from the grave? Jesus has the same body, with nail holes in the hands and feet, he never knew sin, thus his body can go to heaven. Ours can not.
Since the Bible very clearly uses words to indicate a single resurrection for the saved and a single resurrection for the unsaved, I believe that.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. One for each.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
12 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
From these verses, I am convinced that at the Second Advent (when He comes) all believers from Adam forward will receive their glorified bodies (those who belong to Him).
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. One for each.
Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
12 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
From these verses, I am convinced that at the Second Advent (when He comes) all believers from Adam forward will receive their glorified bodies (those who belong to Him).
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.
In fact, the living believers who receive glorified bodies 'when He comes' will NEVER go to heaven. They will stay on earth for the Millennial reign. And then the new heaven and earth.
In fact, the New Jerusalem will come down from heaven and rest on the new earth.
I expect pretribbers will be very shocked to realize this. However, by the time of the second advent, there won't be any "pretribbers" around.
In fact, the living believers who receive glorified bodies 'when He comes' will NEVER go to heaven. They will stay on earth for the Millennial reign. And then the new heaven and earth.
In fact, the New Jerusalem will come down from heaven and rest on the new earth.
I expect pretribbers will be very shocked to realize this. However, by the time of the second advent, there won't be any "pretribbers" around.
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No way...south of the border.
'I will keep you(church of Philadelphia) from the hour that shall come upon all the earth (tribulation) ....because you have a little faith'. Speaking of the Trib. period. The Rapture occurs.
There is only one resurrection...those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they...
What bible edition do you use?
'I will keep you(church of Philadelphia) from the hour that shall come upon all the earth (tribulation) ....because you have a little faith'. Speaking of the Trib. period. The Rapture occurs.
There is only one resurrection...those dead in Christ shall rise up and be met in the air by those living in Christ and together they...
What bible edition do you use?
Sure it is n the end, because our Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven, thus we have to get a new body, Jesus never knew any sin this he always had a glorified body. How do you think he "DISAPEARED" at times when people were about to stone/kill him? How do you think he made himself look different whereas Mary couldn't not recognize him? Jesus; body was always glorified. He will have those scars for eternity.
Not quite correct, the Dead Martyrs who refused the Mark of the Beasts, and are Judged in Rev, 20:4 after Jesus Second Coming are the ONLY ONES who live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years. Those living when Jesus returns repopulate the earth. They are still sinners but they do not willfully sin, they still have sin nature, that is why some will follow Satan after he is loosed from the pit a 1000 years later.
Those of us Raptured will indeed get a Glorious Body in Heaven a the Marriage to the Lamb (Jesus) but that happens Pre Trib, not later on. Thus those of us who are Raptured Pre Trib will, I assume, go back to Heaven since ONLY the Martyred who refused the Mark of the Beas serve with Jesus for 1000 years.
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The only ones shocked will be you guys flying through the air saying, "They were right, please take me all the way" while we spike the football.
My guess is this earth is the future Hell.
Not quite correct, the Dead Martyrs who refused the Mark of the Beasts, and are Judged in Rev, 20:4 after Jesus Second Coming are the ONLY ONES who live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years. Those living when Jesus returns repopulate the earth. They are still sinners but they do not willfully sin, they still have sin nature, that is why some will follow Satan after he is loosed from the pit a 1000 years later.
Those of us Raptured will indeed get a Glorious Body in Heaven a the Marriage to the Lamb (Jesus) but that happens Pre Trib, not later on. Thus those of us who are Raptured Pre Trib will, I assume, go back to Heaven since ONLY the Martyred who refused the Mark of the Beas serve with Jesus for 1000 years.
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The only ones shocked will be you guys flying through the air saying, "They were right, please take me all the way" while we spike the football.
My guess is this earth is the future Hell.
"""We get the Three Harvests in Rev. 14, the whole problem you are having is you had something already solved in your mind and you seemingly can't get past that hurdle. Jesus shows up on the Mount, the Jews are not really with him
are in the Petra/Bozrah Wilderness. Read Isaiah 63:1, he comes from Edom and Bozrah with blood stained garments. So, Jesus harvests the Wheat which has a First-fruits who are the 144,000 (that doesn't need to be said in reality, I however know why you mention it, because of the Pre Trib Rapture, they however are Barley First-fruits), but he doesn't actually bring them with him as he lands, it just showing Jesus is going to reign amongst his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem for 1000 years thus he is Harvesting them into His Barn so to speak like the parable says. Then in verse 14 we see Jesus Harvest not from the Mount in Jerusalem (this should be a HUGE CLUE for you) but from upon a cloud, just like the Scriptures say happen in the Pre Trib Rapture, we are called up to be with Jesus. He thrusts in the sickle himself. In the Rev. 14:17-20 Harvest an Angel thrusts in the Sickle. Jesus is is up on a cloud and you can't see that is the Rapture ? I don't get that thought thought process """
Well you got a couple things right.
Yes we see 3 gatherings in rev 14.
Yes rev 14: 14 can be called a rapture.
Maybe you got another point correct.
But no i see no wheat at all.
No barley anywhere.
And no...definately NO wedding supper at armageddon.
But for somecreason you keep transposing 144k into millions.
Maybe you can show us a formula for that.
And BTW the First miracle is forever cannonized as First MIRACLE.
In the kingdom, last and first are interchangeable.
It was declared " you saved the best for last"
We see this in romans. Very vivid.
The jews come to the wedding last as Jesus illustrated.
are in the Petra/Bozrah Wilderness. Read Isaiah 63:1, he comes from Edom and Bozrah with blood stained garments. So, Jesus harvests the Wheat which has a First-fruits who are the 144,000 (that doesn't need to be said in reality, I however know why you mention it, because of the Pre Trib Rapture, they however are Barley First-fruits), but he doesn't actually bring them with him as he lands, it just showing Jesus is going to reign amongst his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem for 1000 years thus he is Harvesting them into His Barn so to speak like the parable says. Then in verse 14 we see Jesus Harvest not from the Mount in Jerusalem (this should be a HUGE CLUE for you) but from upon a cloud, just like the Scriptures say happen in the Pre Trib Rapture, we are called up to be with Jesus. He thrusts in the sickle himself. In the Rev. 14:17-20 Harvest an Angel thrusts in the Sickle. Jesus is is up on a cloud and you can't see that is the Rapture ? I don't get that thought thought process """
Well you got a couple things right.
Yes we see 3 gatherings in rev 14.
Yes rev 14: 14 can be called a rapture.
Maybe you got another point correct.
But no i see no wheat at all.
No barley anywhere.
And no...definately NO wedding supper at armageddon.
But for somecreason you keep transposing 144k into millions.
Maybe you can show us a formula for that.
And BTW the First miracle is forever cannonized as First MIRACLE.
In the kingdom, last and first are interchangeable.
It was declared " you saved the best for last"
We see this in romans. Very vivid.
The jews come to the wedding last as Jesus illustrated.
Hello Brother and thanks for this: The combine distance of the western and eastern routes from Megiddo/Armageddon to Jerusalem is slightly under 200 miles according to Google Earth; Comprehending two forward columns of troops occupying these two highways all the way to Jerusalem. After all we are looking at a major defeat, orchestrated by the four angels of the Euphrates. These are four Angels having been prepared for the hour, day, month, and year. to be released, so that they would kill a third of mankind. What will be said beyond this point has been the work of what is now over a thousand pastors world wide; that by now (in the past twenty-two years) has crossed almost every denominational boundary. These relationships have yielded much fruit; but for now it boils down to a single word that translators were not respecting as a singular form in the Greek, but this discrepancy is revealed in the footnotes of some NASB bibles. The implications of what follows are disconcerting, if not all out shocking. Implications that forced us to take a critical examination of Revelations Chronology.
*G444 matches the Greek ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos,) which occurs 550 times in 498 verses in the Greek concordance of the NASB https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g444/nasb95/mgnt/0-1/
*G444/the men. - Most bibles (many times) have erroneously rendered the Greek word (Anthropos) as “Mankind” as founds in Revelation 9:15, 18, and 20, thus conveying the idea that these 3 plagues are affecting all of humanity. Yet, contextually and etymologically, the correct translation is "the men", and refers specifically to the soldiers (“the men”) (a coalition) from all the nations having bivouacked in the valley of Megiddo/Armageddon. Remember that the death/blood is said to be just outside Jerusalem extending approximately 200 miles north to the Valley of Megiddo/Armageddon, but with only a third of the troops killed.
Revelations 9:15, 18, and 20 all include the forgery rendering the word Anthropos “Mankind” rather than rightfully MEN”.
The word "Mankind" is actually the Greek word anthropoi; a word nowhere to be found in the New Testament. This forgery is significant in that the translators were trying to create the illusion that the battle of Armageddon was a global conflict, rather than a regional battle affecting those who will gather to subjugate Israel (firstly from the north extending south.) Therefore, even the actual words of Rev 9:15, 18, and 20 do not fit a narrative for an end-of-the-tribulation’s battle.
Mathew Eight twenty-seven and John Four-twenty eight are examples where G444/Anthrōpos is properly translated, faithful to the Greek singular form:
[Mat 8:27 NASB] The men/G444 were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”
[Jhn 4:28 NASB95] 28 So the woman left her water pot, and went into the city and said to the men/G444,
Properly placed, Armageddon is 3 ½ Days past the “middle of the week.” All this leaves us with another battle where the coalition approaches from the south, coming up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; where rather than four Angels orchestrating the defeat, it's the Lord Himself, coming in the Glory of the Father and His Angels, to destroy (in one day) ALL the wicked (not only around Jerusalem) but also in the entire world. A battle called "The Great Supper of God."
“One Third of the Men were Killed”
Trying to understand all this; that is, the Chronology, in that we are having copies of copies (etcetera) (that other than a few small scrapes) and them being separated by (lets say) 100 years of the signature; we are only having (even less ancient copies) from an organization having had their hands on the reins of the Sixth Beast. This is to say that a particular woman always survives the destruction (the one who "lives securely") of every empire she has ever ridden (that being six but one more in the future). She has been the plague on all humanity, with the history of conquering and becoming wealthy from the gifts of beast (her many lovers) She is the one saying (that because of her) we are having the bible. The Harlot is saying she was with the church from the beginning; yet all of what we see of her early days, is portraying Herself as being among the social elite. If this is the case, then how is it that she could have been so carless, to have complete lost almost all the original manuscripts. Almost everyone knows to sacredly guard original documentation. The harlots history is one of having ridden the beasts of the earth while having spread the plague of war, looting, and biological pestilence wherever she has gone in the world. These things are prime indicators (that by now) we are having leaven added to three pecks dough. The Book (hardcopy) "SEVEN EYES" will first be distributed to at least two thousand pastors in the united states, before being available for free download to the masses of planet earth... There are a few people here (on this website) that we want to also send a hard copy; so let me know if you want one...
Rev 9:13-15 The sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 And the four angels, who had been prepared for this year and month and day and hour, were released, so that they would kill a third of the men/G444.*
*G444 matches the Greek ἄνθρωπος (anthrōpos,) which occurs 550 times in 498 verses in the Greek concordance of the NASB https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g444/nasb95/mgnt/0-1/
The Fine Print
*G444/the men. - Most bibles (many times) have erroneously rendered the Greek word (Anthropos) as “Mankind” as founds in Revelation 9:15, 18, and 20, thus conveying the idea that these 3 plagues are affecting all of humanity. Yet, contextually and etymologically, the correct translation is "the men", and refers specifically to the soldiers (“the men”) (a coalition) from all the nations having bivouacked in the valley of Megiddo/Armageddon. Remember that the death/blood is said to be just outside Jerusalem extending approximately 200 miles north to the Valley of Megiddo/Armageddon, but with only a third of the troops killed.
Rev 14:20 - The wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood splashed out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred and ninety-two kilometers/181.8mi.
Revelations 9:15, 18, and 20 all include the forgery rendering the word Anthropos “Mankind” rather than rightfully MEN”.
The word "Mankind" is actually the Greek word anthropoi; a word nowhere to be found in the New Testament. This forgery is significant in that the translators were trying to create the illusion that the battle of Armageddon was a global conflict, rather than a regional battle affecting those who will gather to subjugate Israel (firstly from the north extending south.) Therefore, even the actual words of Rev 9:15, 18, and 20 do not fit a narrative for an end-of-the-tribulation’s battle.
Mathew Eight twenty-seven and John Four-twenty eight are examples where G444/Anthrōpos is properly translated, faithful to the Greek singular form:
[Mat 8:27 NASB] The men/G444 were amazed, and said, “What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?”
[Jhn 4:28 NASB95] 28 So the woman left her water pot, and went into the city and said to the men/G444,
Properly placed, Armageddon is 3 ½ Days past the “middle of the week.” All this leaves us with another battle where the coalition approaches from the south, coming up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; where rather than four Angels orchestrating the defeat, it's the Lord Himself, coming in the Glory of the Father and His Angels, to destroy (in one day) ALL the wicked (not only around Jerusalem) but also in the entire world. A battle called "The Great Supper of God."
“One Third of the Men were Killed”
Rev 9:18, 20-21 - A third of the men/G444* were killed by these three plagues: by the fire, the smoke, and the brimstone which proceeded from their mouths. … 20 The rest of *the men*, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, venerating demons, and the idols of gold, silver, brass, stone and of wood. None of these Idols can see, hear, nor can they walk. 21 None of them repented of their murders, or sorceries, or of their immorality; nor did they repent from all the things they had stolen.
NOTICE! Those who get killed at the Battle of Armageddon will be saved (Yet, on the other hand, the Nations will still be enduring this defeated, but they are defiant/rage.) The Scriptures indicate that the survivors did not repent of the works of their hands … This means the ones who are destined to be killed WILL believe in God at some point of time before their death.
Rev 9:20a - The rest of the men/G444*, who were "not" killed by these plagues, did "not" repent regarding the works of their hands.
Because of Moses and Elijah, these prophecies will be known amongst these armies regarding this plague, that they were to turn on one another. A third of the men among these armies will repent, and will be taking their places among the Great Multitude…
Trying to understand all this; that is, the Chronology, in that we are having copies of copies (etcetera) (that other than a few small scrapes) and them being separated by (lets say) 100 years of the signature; we are only having (even less ancient copies) from an organization having had their hands on the reins of the Sixth Beast. This is to say that a particular woman always survives the destruction (the one who "lives securely") of every empire she has ever ridden (that being six but one more in the future). She has been the plague on all humanity, with the history of conquering and becoming wealthy from the gifts of beast (her many lovers) She is the one saying (that because of her) we are having the bible. The Harlot is saying she was with the church from the beginning; yet all of what we see of her early days, is portraying Herself as being among the social elite. If this is the case, then how is it that she could have been so carless, to have complete lost almost all the original manuscripts. Almost everyone knows to sacredly guard original documentation. The harlots history is one of having ridden the beasts of the earth while having spread the plague of war, looting, and biological pestilence wherever she has gone in the world. These things are prime indicators (that by now) we are having leaven added to three pecks dough. The Book (hardcopy) "SEVEN EYES" will first be distributed to at least two thousand pastors in the united states, before being available for free download to the masses of planet earth... There are a few people here (on this website) that we want to also send a hard copy; so let me know if you want one...
Disagree. They would have had to be deceived to be there in the first place.
Many Saints are martyred during this time, yes. None are enjoined in the assault against Israel. Or Jesus. These are all, unfortunately, cannon fodder IMO.
It is impossible for the elect to be decieved. Now or then.
You have misunderstood this meaning. This means simply that this Great White Thrones is n Gods Heaven, not our Earthy Heaven, and this Earth, and our Heaven BOTH fled away from God's Holy Face, seemingly saying God is finished with this heaven and earth(our whole universe) for us, thus He will deliver a New Heaven and Earth, and then my guess is when Satan is released one last time, and God BURNS THEM ALL UP, that ignites this earth once and for all and it becomes Hell. No, it might not be, but the reference you are making is about God's face fleeing from our universe, its Heaven and Earth, He is finished with it, thus we get a new one in the very next chapter.
Rev 13:10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
Isa 22:14 But the LORD of hosts revealed Himself to me, “Surely this iniquity shall not be forgiven you Until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts.
Num 16:46-47 Moses said to Aaron, "Take your censer and put in it fire from the altar, and lay incense on it; then bring it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone forth from the LORD, the plague has begun!" 47 Then Aaron took it as Moses had spoken, and ran into the midst of the assembly, for behold, the plague had begun among the people. So he put on the incense and made atonement for the people.
Atonement isn't for people who are perfect
Rev 8:5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it to the earth; and there followed peals of thunder and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
Atonement isn't for people who are perfect
Rev 8:5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with the fire of the altar, and threw it to the earth; and there followed peals of thunder and sounds and flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
You got is exactly right brother: The only thing Rondonmon and Charlie think is literal is a decimated Promise land; even saying almost everything else is symbolic; but I say this, "Symbolic of What?" Like drinking Grape Juice and it turns into literal Blood? like eating bread and it turns into the literal flesh of Savior? But according to the flesh, there can be nothing greater than the Law: But did the Animal Sacrifices of Israel turn into the body and blood of Savior when eaten? So what do the scriptures say about these things?
2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh; yet now, we no longer know Him in this way.
2Co 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh; yet now, we no longer know Him in this way.
1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Savior says eat my flesh and drink my blood: but what does He say when reading on?:
Jhn 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are life.
Even the Body of the Sacrifice Had to be taken outside the camp.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp 12Therefore Jesus also, that He sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.
1Pe 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Rom 6:10 The death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Jhn 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are life.
Even the Body of the Sacrifice Had to be taken outside the camp.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp 12Therefore Jesus also, that He sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate.
1Pe 2:24 He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Rom 6:10 The death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.
I guess you didn't actually read my post. The single resurrection occurs when Jesus returns to earth, after the Tribulation. Then He sets up His 1,000 year reign. Then the present heaven and earth melt, and there will be a new heaven and earth. So, there is no time where believers in their glorified bodies will go up to heaven.
How does this have any relevance to the fact that living believers at the end of the Trib and receive a glorified body then go to heaven?
What verse informs you that glorified believers will go to heaven?
Rather, your view is "not quit4e corrrect". There is NO evidence from Rev 20 that the maartyrs are "the ONLY ONES" as you claim.
In fact, reigning with Christ is what Paul told Timothy the result of enduring.
2 Tim 2-
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
Red words is a condition; keeping the faith.
Blue words is the result of keeping the condition; reigning with Him, a REWARD for faithfulness. This directly relates to Revb 20:4,5.
Green words is another condition; the OPPOSITE of the red words, with the result of being denied that reward.
Purple words explain why the believer's salvation remains intact; the Holy Spirit resides in them. And God CANNOT deny Himself.
Since the single resurrrection of the saved occurs when Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, and they all receive a glorified body, they are not the ones who repopulate the earth. The ones who enter the Millennial Reign of Christ are the surviving unbelievers from the Tribulation. This is the ONLY rational explanation for WHY there will be a world-wide rebellion against Christ and His reign.
Further, if living mortal believers were in the Millennial reign, and there is ONLY ONE resurrection, your view totally leaves out these people for EVER receiving a glorified body.
Your view fails to accept Paul's teaching that ALL believers will be resurrected "when He comes". 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse totally refutes your view. The phrase "those who belong to Him" refers to ALL believers from Adam on. And all of the saved will be resurrected (receive glorified bodies) "when He comes", a clear reference to His Second Advent.
Your view cannot account for this verse. And it refutes your view.
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Interesting fantasy, for sure.
I'm not really into guessing. I hook my views on what the Bible DOES say. I don't "read between the lines" either.
But what is clear is that the SINGLE resurrection for the saved occurs "when He comes", and Rev 20:4,5 places that clearly after the Trib.
But that isn't the only evidence. 2 Thess 2:1-3 is further evidence.
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent) and our being gathered to him (rapture), we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day (the actual day He returns) will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
What is clear is that neither the Second Advent nor the "rapture" will occur UNTIL the Trib happens and the a/c or beast is revealed.
So you now have 2 passages that clearly show us WHEN the resurrection/rapture will occur.
It's yours to believe.
Not sure of hyour point here. But receiving a glorified body isn't about going to heaven.
I guess you didn't actually read my post. The single resurrection occurs when Jesus returns to earth, after the Tribulation. Then He sets up His 1,000 year reign. Then the present heaven and earth melt, and there will be a new heaven and earth. So, there is no time where believers in their glorified bodies will go up to heaven.
How does this have any relevance to the fact that living believers at the end of the Trib and receive a glorified body then go to heaven?
What verse informs you that glorified believers will go to heaven?
Rather, your view is "not quit4e corrrect". There is NO evidence from Rev 20 that the maartyrs are "the ONLY ONES" as you claim.
In fact, reigning with Christ is what Paul told Timothy the result of enduring.
2 Tim 2-
12 if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself.
Red words is a condition; keeping the faith.
Blue words is the result of keeping the condition; reigning with Him, a REWARD for faithfulness. This directly relates to Revb 20:4,5.
Green words is another condition; the OPPOSITE of the red words, with the result of being denied that reward.
Purple words explain why the believer's salvation remains intact; the Holy Spirit resides in them. And God CANNOT deny Himself.
Since the single resurrrection of the saved occurs when Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, and they all receive a glorified body, they are not the ones who repopulate the earth. The ones who enter the Millennial Reign of Christ are the surviving unbelievers from the Tribulation. This is the ONLY rational explanation for WHY there will be a world-wide rebellion against Christ and His reign.
Further, if living mortal believers were in the Millennial reign, and there is ONLY ONE resurrection, your view totally leaves out these people for EVER receiving a glorified body.
Your view fails to accept Paul's teaching that ALL believers will be resurrected "when He comes". 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse totally refutes your view. The phrase "those who belong to Him" refers to ALL believers from Adam on. And all of the saved will be resurrected (receive glorified bodies) "when He comes", a clear reference to His Second Advent.
Your view cannot account for this verse. And it refutes your view.
Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Interesting fantasy, for sure.
I'm not really into guessing. I hook my views on what the Bible DOES say. I don't "read between the lines" either.
But what is clear is that the SINGLE resurrection for the saved occurs "when He comes", and Rev 20:4,5 places that clearly after the Trib.
But that isn't the only evidence. 2 Thess 2:1-3 is further evidence.
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (Second Advent) and our being gathered to him (rapture), we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day (the actual day He returns) will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
What is clear is that neither the Second Advent nor the "rapture" will occur UNTIL the Trib happens and the a/c or beast is revealed.
So you now have 2 passages that clearly show us WHEN the resurrection/rapture will occur.
It's yours to believe.