Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[FreeGrace2]

AND AGAIN I AGREE, it is

A
resurrection

BUT IT IS NOT THE ONLY RESURRECTION. JUST 'A' RESURRECTION, of multiple resurrections, multiple resurrections you CAN'T SEE because of ?????.

You can continue to try to make me sound dumb but it won't do any good because what is written is truth, what WE believe is written, doesn't always hold true and you trying to show me to be dumb is only proving your ignorance.

1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in THE resurrection "when He comes".

I can't help your refusal to see what is so clear. I think you just don't want to admit what is so clear.

Is it really that hard to repent? (change your mind)

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? SAME EXACT THING.

You have got to be kidding! "every tree" doesn't mean just one. It means every one of THEM (multiple trees). Except one.

So, you have proven that your reading or comprehension skills are rusty.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Some people will just have to see it before they believe it.

The bible is clear
There is only 2 resurrections of the dead.
One when Jesus comes and one after the 1000 years.

No secret one

Please show in the bible any other resurrections.

Some HAVE seen it but STILL won't believe it. Just read some of the posts!!!

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
Question is not clear. By the time of the Tribulation, the VAST MAJORITY of the "body of Christ" will ALREADY be in heaven.

Why do you say no? On what basis?

Do you agree that there is just one resurrection of the saved, per Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23?
Do you agree that there will be a post tribulation resurrection, per Rev20:5?

If you disagree with either question, please prove that the verses listed do not teach what my question expresses.

Thanks.

You didn't answer my questions. So please don't ignore them and add your own.

Your questions appear to conflate verses. Not the way to study the Bible.

I am trying to get you to see that there were captives set free, resurrected as part of Christ's resurrection, the firstfruits. That's all.

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

No it's NOT. In 1 Cor 15:23 the word "first fruits" refers only to the FACT that Jesus is the FIRST to receive a glorified body.

Acts 26:23 - that the Christ would suffer and, as the FIRST TO RISE FROM THE DEAD, would proclaim light to His own people and to the Gentiles.

There are NO examples of the singular resurrection and "main gathering" and "gleanings", or the Bible would have made that clear.

Jesus is "firstfruits" in the sense of being the FIRST to receive a glorified body. Period.

Studying makes it clear. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15, compares the resurrection to a harvest. Throughout the bible, a harvest consists of three parts: the firstfruits, main gathering, and the gleanings. Christ is the firstfruits. He was resurrected, was he not? To say there is only one resurrection nullifies Christ's resurrection.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

Studying makes it clear.

Which is what I've done.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15, compares the resurrection to a harvest.

No he didn't. Read Actss 26:23 where Paul was referring to by "firstfruits". Jesus was the FIRST to receive a glorified body. That is all.

If the Bible DID compare resurrection to these "3 parts of a harvest" how come there are NO VERSES that clarify this?

Throughout the bible, a harvest consists of three parts: the firstfruits, main gathering, and the gleanings.

Unless there are ANY verses that make clear that the resurrection has "3 parts" you don't have a case.

Christ is the firstfruits. He was resurrected, was he not?

The FIRST to be resurrected with a glorified body.

To say there is only one resurrection nullifies Christ's resurrection.

Then let me be more clear. For mortal saved humans, there is JUST ONE resurrection, which will occur "when He comes" and will include "those who belong to Him".

If you want to argue that the phrase "those who belong to Him" doesn't include every saved person, then prove it from clear Scripture.

 

[John146]

FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

1 Cor 15:23. In that ONE resurrection, "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. "when He comes", which is the 2nd Advent.

Yes. I see no evidence for multiple resurrections.

Jesus always spoke in the singular regarding the coming resurrection.
Acts 24:15 says plainly that there will be A resurrection for the saved (just) and the unsaved (unjust).

1 Cor 15:23 says that this single resurrection will occur "when He comes" and EVERY reference to the COMING of Jesus is a reference to the Second Advent, because the OT prophesied of only TWO advents and the first was Jesus' birth. His second advent will be when He comes back to earth, ends the Tribulation and battle of Armegeddon and sets up His Millennial reign.

Further, 1 Cor 15:23 says "those who belong to Him" will be in the single resurrection. How can that be less than ALL believers?

Which is what I've done.


No he didn't. Read Actss 26:23 where Paul was referring to by "firstfruits". Jesus was the FIRST to receive a glorified body. That is all.

If the Bible DID compare resurrection to these "3 parts of a harvest" how come there are NO VERSES that clarify this?


Unless there are ANY verses that make clear that the resurrection has "3 parts" you don't have a case.


The FIRST to be resurrected with a glorified body.


Then let me be more clear. For mortal saved humans, there is JUST ONE resurrection, which will occur "when He comes" and will include "those who belong to Him".

If you want to argue that the phrase "those who belong to Him" doesn't include every saved person, then prove it from clear Scripture.

When Christ ascended he led captivity captive. Who is Paul referring to?

Did these bodies resurrect? Is this a fable?

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[kleronomos]

The armies in heavens are comprised of Angels and the Spirits of the Saints who have died and are waiting for their Resurrection into Glorified Eternal Bodies made in His Likeness.

Only the LORD Jesus has a Resurrected Glorified Body in Revelation chapters 1 thru 19.

Revelation chapter 20 is the First Resurrection spoken of in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and 1 John chapter 2 thru chapter 3.

EXCEPT FOR

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


WHAT? One place says 'a spirit' but doesn't say 'a body' and another says 'a body' but doesn't say 'a spirit'.


What can that mean? Does it mean there are bodies without spirits being raised up and spirits without bodies being raised up' ????

OR

maybe we should just apply some basic common sense knowing we are body soul and spirit.

Earth for body earth, Heaven body for heaven.

It really doesn't even take a leap of faith and if we are BOLD enough to put the two together, we will find ourselves BUILDING upon a foundation laid for us and learning a DEEPER truth that we can now CONFIDENTLY take with us every where else we go in the words of God and be assured we are rightly dividing them to find HIS TRUTH and not making up our own.



1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[kleronomos]

FreeGrace2 said:
and God sends them to the proper waiting area.

The 3rd heaven IS a waiting place for the new earth, which is the eternal state. All believers who die before the Tribulation go to the 3rd heaven. All unbelievers go to "torments" in Hades, awaiting the GWT judgement and being cast into the lake of fire.

What did you think about souls who die and where they go?

I didn't ask for YOUR THOUGHTS, I asked for SCRIPTURE(S), that made you think that way. Not looking for the doctrines of man but the words of God.

Where is this 'waiting area' you are TEACHING to be found? I know of paradise heaven and hell.

You seem to know of some 'waiting area' I have read nothing about. I would like to read it. Could you give me Chapter and Verse so I could.



In answer to your question: I think souls who die are evil and souls who die go into the LOF

 

[DavidTree]

EXCEPT FOR

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest NOT that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.


WHAT? One place says 'a spirit' but doesn't say 'a body' and another says 'a body' but doesn't say 'a spirit'.


What can that mean? Does it mean there are bodies without spirits being raised up and spirits without bodies being raised up' ????

OR

maybe we should just apply some basic common sense knowing we are body soul and spirit.

Earth for body earth, Heaven body for heaven.

It really doesn't even take a leap of faith and if we are BOLD enough to put the two together, we will find ourselves BUILDING upon a foundation laid for us and learning a DEEPER truth that we can now CONFIDENTLY take with us every where else we go in the words of God and be assured we are rightly dividing them to find HIS TRUTH and not making up our own.



1 Corinthians 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1 Corinthians 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

What is the "EXCEPT FOR" for?

The scripture you posted is correct in relation to the subject matter - but you said "EXCEPT FOR"?

 

[kleronomos]

The words 'raised up' refers to dead physical bodies being resurrected UP out of the ground to be joined to the soil, who will be with Jesus as He ends the Trip and Armageddon and sets up His Millennial reign on earth.

THOU SOWEST NOT THAT BODY THAT SHALL BE




It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.





There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.





As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:


and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.


And as we have borne the image of the earthy,


we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


NO terra firma in the heaven

 

[kleronomos]

I see just fine. What doesn't exist are any verses describing Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.

NEVER DIE. GO TO PREPARE A PLACE. FOLLOW AFTER. JESUS DIED AND ROSE, EVEN SO THEM. BRING BACK WITH HIM. WHAT IS SOWN QUICKENS A BARE GRAIN THAT GOD GIVES A BODY TO AND SPIRIT RETURNS TO GOD.

ALL OF THEM SAY IT.

ONLY YOU SAY THEY DON'T.

 

[kleronomos]

Nope. These saints are the souls. They are awaiting their resurrected body.

Only according to you. WHAT IS WRITTEN tells a different story

 

[kleronomos]

Not in 1 Cor 15:23. Give me context for your phrase and I will respond.

Those who died under the law of sin and death. Sleeping. Jesus died after them. Jesus descended to those sleeping and became the first fruits of them that slept.

 

[kleronomos]

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is ONE resurrection, which will be "when He comes" at the 2nd Advent.

You can keep saying it and saying it and saying it but it will still NEVER MAKE IT GODS TRUTH. THERE MAY BE 'ONE' resurrection when He comes BUT IT ISN'T THE ONLY ONE, JUST THE ONLY ONE YOU CAN SEE.

 

[Beckie]

Some people will just have to see it before they believe it.

The bible is clear
There is only 2 resurrections of the dead.
One when Jesus comes and one after the 1000 years.

No secret one

Please show in the bible any other resurrections.

Jesus says this ...

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus says last day how does time get counted after the last day? Does any one believe Jesus really meant last day? notice He is not saying last day of or last days . What power of thought do His words have in your understanding of end times?

 

[oyster67]

Jesus leaves heaven, meets raptured saints in the clouds then takes them back to heaven

Correct.

After the Marriage, He returns back to Earth for the Millennial reign.

 

[oyster67]

BUT THAT in no way shows A GROUP PRE TRIB BEING TAKEN TO HEAVEN. ALL it does show is those who have been saved and who's flesh bodies have died have gone to be with the Lord

SEE the subject is THOSE OF FAITH WHO'S FLESH DIE, CONTINUE ON LIVING JUST LIKE CHRIST BECAUSE AS HE DIED AND WAS RAISED, SO ARE THEY.



1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren,

concerning them which are asleep, NOT CONCERING THE CHURCH AS A GROUP/UNIT/BODY and NOT AT a set specific time being pre 'great' tribulation

that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.


HERE HE GETS very specific as to what happens TO THE INDIVIDUAL SAVED SOUL

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

THAT IS HOW ALL THE SAINTS AND THE SAVED GET TO HEAVEN AND HOW THEY ALL RETURN WITH HIM.





BUT BY THIS POINT IN TIME, the great tribulation has ended with Christ and His armies returned to the earth, the vials poured out, and the Lords Day COMMENCING, THE kingdoms of the earth are become HIS

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU HAVE SAID IT AGAIN, BUT AGAIN, NOT SHOWN GOD TO SAY IT.

Are you trying to say that those who are BLESSED WHICH ARE CALLED unto the marriage ARE not really called to the supper at all but have in fact been rendered 'the wife'?

1 Thessalonians 4 says that they went up in a rapture event and were changed. This is a given. It can't be ignored, and it make no sense to imagine them going up after Jesus steps foot on Earth for the Millennial Reign.

 

[oyster67]

There are NO verses describing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

I Corinthians
15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Revelation
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

The Bride is seen to be in Heaven after she has been raptured and changed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

When Christ ascended he led captivity captive. Who is Paul referring to?

Before Christ ascended, He DESCENDED to Hades and "preached to the spirits in prison". He took the saved souls from Abraham's bosom to heaven.

Did these bodies resurrect? Is this a fable?

No, and no. How could any human bodies resurrect when 1 Cor 15:23 tells us WHEN all believers will be resurrected.

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Their souls came back to mortal bodies. There is zero evidence that they received glorified bodies.

And 1 Cor 15:23 doesn't permit such a thing. So I don't have any problem with any of these accounts. Not even Lazarus received a glorified body.