Jesus did not say follow preachers, He said follow Me.

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A

Adstar

Senior Member
#61
Jul 24, 2016
7,581
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#61
Relic said:
I am not throwing Paul's letters out of the bible, I use them often
but they are not laws, they are to help us if we need help, so many
treat them as laws and that is totally wrong.
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Paul's words are either Correct or they are Not Correct.. One either accepts them as having Authority and being scriptures from God or they don't.. You cannot use the letters of Paul to support one thing but reject other things Paul wrote.. That's using the Bible as a smorgasbord picking and choosing what you personally want to acknowledge and what offends your personal opinions..
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#62
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
28
#62
Adstar said:
Paul's words are either Correct or they are Not Correct.. One either accepts them as having Authority and being scriptures from God or they don't.. You cannot use the letters of Paul to support one thing but reject other things Paul wrote.. That's using the Bible as a smorgasbord picking and choosing what you personally want to acknowledge and what offends your personal opinions..
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I really don't know how you get that. I respect all of Paul's letters, all of 1john letters and the rest.
Here is the difference.

Love fulfils all the law period. All of the letters are our guide but none are laws. That does not
mean we throw them out the window. They are useful for our guide. A guide is not a law.
Check with your pastor.
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#63
Apr 29, 2020
249
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#63
jaybo said:
We Christians are not under law but under grace. If you put yourself under the law after having received salvation you are denying Christ.
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Relic

Relic

Active member
#64
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
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#64
jaybo said:
We Christians are not under law but under grace. If you put yourself under the law after having received salvation you are denying Christ.
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Relic

Relic

Active member
#65
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
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#65
amen Jaybo . would you please go through this entire post and correct
about sixty people. your comment was short but sweet.
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
#66
Feb 1, 2020
725
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#66
Lol preachers, even the good ones of God's Kingdom aren't meant to be followed anyways, that ain't their job's description. Their job is to preach and that they will do whether people listen or not.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#68
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#68
Kolistus said:
Its not the book of Hebrews that says Jesus would abolish the old covenant, even the OT says there will be a new one, a different one:

Jeremiah 31:31-33
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

These verses are quoted in Hebrews.
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The church has been very mixed up for a long time and is just now opening it's eyes. You have pointed out much of it, but part of the being messed up is in saying that God made many mistakes and is taking them back. God does NOT make mistakes.

It is said that the old covenant was a mistakes and God is correcting it, not the truth that God is giving us something wonderful to add to our life, something that makes the old covenant of no use any longer because the new one takes it's place and does it better. God isn't cancelling what He has done.

It is said that the old way of using physical orders to help man with a spiritual renewal was wrong and God is correcting it. Those rituals of circumcision, sacrifices, special diet served their purpose well, they were God given and we are to learn from them and praise our Lord for the guidance He gave. We are to thank our Lord for opening up a new way to achieve the same things.
 
Benadam

Benadam

Banned
#69
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
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#69
Relic said:
amen Jaybo . would you please go through this entire post and correct
about sixty people. your comment was short but sweet.
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There are no Christians I've read on this thread that believe they are under the OT Law. There is only you accusing others of treating the Sacred Scriptures written by Paul as if they are OT Law. I don't see that as even possible.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#70
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#70
Adstar said:
Paul's words are either Correct or they are Not Correct.. One either accepts them as having Authority and being scriptures from God or they don't.. You cannot use the letters of Paul to support one thing but reject other things Paul wrote.. That's using the Bible as a smorgasbord picking and choosing what you personally want to acknowledge and what offends your personal opinions..
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The problem is in knowing what Paul's words mean. Some say we must accept that God took back all His laws and we are not under law meaning the law is not for us to be guided by it. Gravity is one of the laws of the Lord so thank heavens they don't say that Paul teaches gravity has no effect on us also!!! These people say Paul teaches we are under grace, as we certainly are. But they don't seem to realize that being under grace is under the forgiveness of sin through Christ, it is not a license to desire sin.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#71
#71
Relic said:
I really don't know how you get that. I respect all of Paul's letters, all of 1john letters and the rest.
Here is the difference.

Love fulfils all the law period. All of the letters are our guide but none are laws. That does not
mean we throw them out the window. They are useful for our guide. A guide is not a law.
Check with your pastor.
Click to expand...
What about this scripture from the writings of Paul:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If you think you can fornicate and still go to heaven because it is not a law but only a guide then you are wrong.
 
J

jaybo

Banned
#72
Jun 5, 2020
941
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#72
Scribe said:
What about this scripture from the writings of Paul:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

If you think you can fornicate and still go to heaven because it is not a law but only a guide then you are wrong.
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Where did all this come from? It certainly has nothing to do with the thread's discussion. Are you fixated on fornication?
 
Benadam

Benadam

Banned
#73
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#73
Scribe said:
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such
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Those are the ten commandments! I think.<counts fingers>
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#74
#74
jaybo said:
Where did all this come from? It certainly has nothing to do with the thread's discussion. Are you fixated on fornication?
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I was replying to Relic who keeps saying that Pauls writings can be taken as guide not law, we do not have to follow them. I have been trying to get him to give us and example but he just keeps repeating the rhetoric. I suspect there is something Paul forbade that he is doing and he does not want to give up and he has adopted a belief system that Paul is not the boss of him and he does not have to comply.
 
R

reneweddaybyday

Senior Member
#75
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
#75
Relic said:
As I say I follow Paul in his help for my beginning in Christianity. But it is not a sin for me to
disagree with Paul.
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First you state "I follow Paul in his help for my beginning in Christianity" (emphasis mine).

Then you claim "it is not a sin for [you] to disagree with Paul" but you do not give any indication as to what is your disagreement.

Folks are asking you to explain because it appears that you "followed" Paul in the beginning and then you suggest that you may disagree (without really stating that you disagree) ... just that "it is not a sin for [you] to disagree with Paul".

So what is it?

Do you agree with Paul???

Do you disagree with Paul???

If you disagree, please state what it is you disagree with in Paul's writings.

Thank you.

And just for clarification, when we are first born again, we are considered babes in Christ. The primary goal is to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and not follow men (whether it is Paul, or Peter, or _________ fill-in the blank). The goal of every pastor should be to not have people follow the pastor, but to follow the Lord Jesus Christ.


 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#76
Apr 29, 2020
249
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#76
Nehemiah6 said:
That is correct. It is downright devilish. Not sure if this person is a troll come on board to undermine the faith of some. ALL OF PAUL'S EPISTLES ARE SCRIPTURE.
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Relic

Relic

Active member
#77
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
28
#77
Scribe said:
I was replying to Relic who keeps saying that Pauls writings can be taken as guide not law, we do not have to follow them. I have been trying to get him to give us and example but he just keeps repeating the rhetoric. I suspect there is something Paul forbade that he is doing and he does not want to give up and he has adopted a belief system that Paul is not the boss of him and he does not have to comply.
Click to expand...
Nehemiah6 said:
That is correct. It is downright devilish. Not sure if this person is a troll come on board to undermine the faith of some. ALL OF PAUL'S EPISTLES ARE SCRIPTURE.
Click to expand...
 
Relic

Relic

Active member
#78
Apr 29, 2020
249
104
28
#78
You made a very malicious post here and should remove it immediately
.i
use Paul's letter as much or more than anyone else. if you read the posts in thisO
OP you would have seen that. calling me a troll and devish is an abuse of thid
site...take it down by your own initiative. I said Paul's letters are not laws and that
is substantiated more than once in scripture. i.e. Love fulfils the law, meaning all
the law...we are now living under grace and not the law. at no time or placed did I say
we should get rid of his letters. we are to use them as guides and not laws....scripture.
even by his own words he said that.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#79
#79
Relic said:
You made a very malicious post here and should remove it immediately
.i
use Paul's letter as much or more than anyone else. if you read the posts in thisO
OP you would have seen that. calling me a troll and devish is an abuse of thid
site...take it down by your own initiative. I said Paul's letters are not laws and that
is substantiated more than once in scripture. i.e. Love fulfils the law, meaning all
the law...we are now living under grace and not the law. at no time or placed did I say
we should get rid of his letters. we are to use them as guides and not laws....scripture.
even by his own words he said that.
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Relic said:
As I say I follow Paul in his help for my beginning in Christianity. But it is not a sin for me to
disagree with Paul.
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YES IT IS A SIN for you to diagree with Paul. It is downright DEVILISH. Get offended all you want, get mad even, but while your getting there get convicted and repent of your false belief system that will send you to hell if you do not repent. You will not be able to stand before Jesus and say.. "I did not think it was a Law to follow what Paul said so I disagreed at times." pfffft! good luck with that one!!!
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#80
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#80
Relic said:
we are to use them as guides and not laws....scripture. even by his own words he said that.
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Peter declared all of Paul's epistles as Scripture -- not simply "guides". And Paul himself declared his words as the Word of God. So are you prepared to retract your statement about making the writings of Paul merely "guides" -- "take it or leave it" type of writings?
 
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