Jesus didn't come to separate the old and new covenants.

[dcontroversal]

They did not even realise the son of man was the suffering servant.

Jesus kept saying the son of man must die, and be risen back up. they denied it and even fought him concerning it.

it was not until after his ressurection that he opened their eyes, and they understood it.

You know a point often overlooked for sure.......The best preacher in the world and that the world has ever seen or will see and the saved disciples sometimes had a difficult time understanding the word and or significance of what was being taught......another point is that unless Jesus opens your eyes to something, you will be oblivious and blind unto it no matter what is said and or done........just a point to ponder.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

according to scripture. here are some characteristics of the two figures.

King Messiah

Come to take power
looked up on
King
be served
Kill his enemy
Never die

Suffering servant

Come to suffer
looked down on
No Kingdom
serve, not be served
Die for his enemy
Suffer Horrible death

 

[peacefulbeliever]

They did not even realise the son of man was the suffering servant.

Jesus kept saying the son of man must die, and be risen back up. they denied it and even fought him concerning it.

it was not until after his ressurection that he opened their eyes, and they understood it.

Thanks . . . but I do understand this . . . Yes, they were expecting a conquering King and no they did not understand his coming as the suffering servant nor his death and resurrection.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

according to scripture. here are some characteristics of the two figures.

King Messiah

Come to take power
looked up on
King
be served
Kill his enemy
Never die

Suffering servant

Come to suffer
looked down on
No Kingdom
serve, not be served
Die for his enemy
Suffer Horrible death

And thanks for the above . . . good comparisons.

There is though something that makes the administration of grace different - and it is wrapped up in the mystery that was revealed to Paul and the church. I do not believe people understand this and that is the "why" of all the debates concerning losing salvation, salvation by works, baptism, etc. - And I stand by the fact that Satan would not have killed our Lord Jesus Christ if he had known that the gift of holy spirit would be available for EVERY born again believer - not just given to a certain few - but "born" within EVERY Christian. Christ in us!!!!

 

[Grandpa]

So what was finished in your eyes? The law? So the unchangeable God changed according to you. That makes perfect sense and we should all be grateful for you pointing out that the Deity warning us that He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow indeed did change.

The Lord Jesus said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

Then, on the cross, He says It is Finished.

Therefore, the fulfilling of the law, the work required for it, was finished, fulfilled.

God didn't change. We change. We can either relate to Him as transgressors, being under the curse. Or we can relate to Him by Faith, in Righteousness, through the Lord Jesus Christ and His Finished Work.

You and your friends are obviously free to relate to God as transgressors under the curse. I am just pointing out that we don't have to do that anymore. We are under a New Covenant now. One that is under Grace and not Law.

 

[john832]

The Lord Jesus said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

Then, on the cross, He says It is Finished.

Therefore, the fulfilling of the law, the work required for it, was finished, fulfilled.

God didn't change. We change. We can either relate to Him as transgressors, being under the curse. Or we can relate to Him by Faith, in Righteousness, through the Lord Jesus Christ and His Finished Work.

You and your friends are obviously free to relate to God as transgressors under the curse. I am just pointing out that we don't have to do that anymore. We are under a New Covenant now. One that is under Grace and not Law.

What did He finish? He tells us...

Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Everything is NOT finished.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Is it not amazing (to say the least) that we discuss the same things over and over about the law and covenants not seeming to realize that this redundancy prohibits us to even begin, or get to the point of spiritually understanding the details within? I repeat Hebrews 6:1-3. Maybe God is not permitting this because of that.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And this will we do, if God permit.

Yes this is true.
Hopefully someone will say something that can enlighten those that participate in these discussions that we seem to always have on the law but as long as there is disagreement on this issue we have to continue correcting and hopefully in a respectful way toward each other so those that may be new to cc are not discouraged and fear participating thinking that if they say the wrong thing someone is going to jump all over them causing them to not want to join in.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Lord Jesus said He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

Then, on the cross, He says It is Finished.

Therefore, the fulfilling of the law, the work required for it, was finished, fulfilled.

This is your doctrine and opinion.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I am just pointing out that we don't have to do that anymore. We are under a New Covenant now. One that is under Grace and not Law.

So God changed? Well that is not Biblical and me and my friends will keep on believing that God can't change...

I am not here to be conflictive but if you don't understand why Yeshua came then the Old and New Covenant will not make sense. God never changed but it is our understanding that is not always in line with His word.

 

[pem]

As you and I both know, Christ DID reveal all. Paul's writings are correct and proper but must be understood in the light of Christ's teachings. There are those that seem to think the reverse is true.

The ENTIRE Bible is the Word (jesus christ) of God. You post suggests you are wresting scriptures unto your own destruction ( 2 Peter 3:16 kjv) . You are subtracting great swathes from the Word of God to satisfy your "religion"

Paul was led by God The Holy Spirit the same as ALL the other prophets and disciples were . To ignore any verse is to ignore GOD . Please adjust your learning accordingly - for your sake .

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The ENTIRE Bible is the Word (jesus christ) of God. You post suggests you are wresting scriptures unto your own destruction ( 2 Peter 3:16 kjv) . You are subtracting great swathes from the Word of God to satisfy your "religion"

Paul was led by God The Holy Spirit the same as ALL the other prophets and disciples were . To ignore any verse is to ignore GOD . Please adjust your learning accordingly - for your sake .

He didn't say anything like that. The problem is that people are interpreting Paul's doctrine before understanding Yeshua's teachings and that is why the church is in the state it is in.

 

[Brother_Don]

Jesus is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Jesus is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Amen, and glory to God. That is the truth.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

God's word is perfect. It is our interpretation that causes us to falter.

If there is a problem with my relationship with God it is always my fault because He is perfect...

 

[secularhermit]

AMEN! Without something that came first that was inferior, there could be nothing better to compare it to. Without something that was not complete, there would be nothing to fulfill or make complete.

I have believed in Jesus´ teachings. What others said is what others said. (Jn 10:16)

 

[michael56]

He didn't say anything like that. The problem is that people are interpreting Paul's doctrine before understanding Yeshua's teachings and that is why the church is in the state it is in.

I believe Paul showed us how to live according to the heart of Jesus teaching. Jesus said:

When he(the Holy Spirit) comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]about sin, because people do not believe in me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; [SUP]11 [/SUP]and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.[SUP]12 [/SUP]“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:8-13

Paul explains much regarding, sin and righteousness. He tells us sin will not be our master, for we are not under law but under grace. If the new covenant did not need explaining there would only be need for four books in the NT. Christ himself stated he was limited in what he could explain to the disciples for the Holy Spirit had not yet come to them to give them the understanding needed.

I did not understand grace until I read Paul's letters. For he explains it

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I believe Paul showed us how to live according to the heart of Jesus teaching. Jesus said:

When he(the Holy Spirit) comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]about sin, because people do not believe in me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; [SUP]11 [/SUP]and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.[SUP]12 [/SUP]“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:8-13

Paul explains much regarding, sin and righteousness. He tells us sin will not be our master, for we are not under law but under grace. If the new covenant did not need explaining there would only be need for four books in the NT. Christ himself stated he was limited in what he could explain to the disciples for the Holy Spirit had not yet come to them to give them the understanding needed.

I did not understand grace until I read Paul's letters. For he explains it

And glory to God for Paul's letters but the problem is that people are starting with Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua is the King and Paul the servant (just like us) so we should start with the King and move on to the servant... and like Brother Don said Yeshua is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If we can't find Him there we should keep on reading until we understand that and then start to investigate the teachings of His students.

 

[fredjames]

Jesus fulfilled the old covenant so we could be under the new....

Sweet, short, simple and wonderful 'testimony', i hope and pray that in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, you are 'diligently' together with others, are under the 'New', in 'practices' according to them that are 'written' and 'abiding' as well, that is to all the words/teachings of CHRIST 'written' in the New Testament, in order for us to be able to 'unite' in 'knowledge faith' and then 'action faith'.

GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[fredjames]

And glory to God for Paul's letters but the problem is that people are starting with Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua is the King and Paul the servant (just like us) so we should start with the King and move on to the servant... and like Brother Don said Yeshua is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If we can't find Him there we should keep on reading until we understand that and then start to investigate the teachings of His students.

Excellent 'testimony' for CHRIST, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT. Please keep up the 'Good fight' for 'AGAPE' Grace and Truth and in AGAPE' grace and Truth of the New Covenant and not please 'itching ears'. And do not let the 'bully' you.

Thank you sincerely from an unworthy servant of CHRIST.

GOD bless you in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, keep you from being tempted and protect you from evil.

 

[michael56]

And glory to God for Paul's letters but the problem is that people are starting with Paul and not Yeshua. Yeshua is the King and Paul the servant (just like us) so we should start with the King and move on to the servant... and like Brother Don said Yeshua is in every book of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. If we can't find Him there we should keep on reading until we understand that and then start to investigate the teachings of His students.

I read the Gospels before I read Paul's letters. I went to church for many years without having read Paul's letters. But it was only when I read Paul's letters that I understood fully the new covenant. And it was only when I read his letters that I understood how/why sin would not be my master. So in order for me to live a holier life/the life God wanted me to live, I had to read Paul's letters.