Jesus is God

[notonmywatch]

But now Jesus isn't limited by the flesh.. so they should be equal now.

It is my understanding that Christ will continue to have two natures throughout eternity. It is due to his humanity that we can be joint-heirs with him as humans ourselves. In his humanity, Christ will be in subjection to the Father throughout eternity. This is part of the price he needed to pay in order to redeem fallen mankind.

( Corinthian 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Phil 2:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

In Isa 45:22-23, where Yhwh God had applied this to Himself: "22Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Jesus Christ is the Word of Yhwh, Yahweh Himself in the flesh. And as the Word of YHWH is YHWH, so too is the Spirit of YHWH. As it is written in 1 Jn 5:7, the Father, His Word and His Spirit are One God. And as the Baptismal Formula shows, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - the Three Persons - because it is said Name and not names are One Lord God.

 

[Rosemaryx]

John 20:28
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

 

[Runningman]

Phil 2:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

In Isa 45:22-23, where Yhwh God had applied this to Himself: "22Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Jesus Christ is the Word of Yhwh, Yahweh Himself in the flesh. And as the Word of YHWH is YHWH, so too is the Spirit of YHWH. As it is written in 1 Jn 5:7, the Father, His Word and His Spirit are One God. And as the Baptismal Formula shows, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - the Three Persons - because it is said Name and not names are One Lord God.

Hi Xavier, I’d like to point out that in Phil 2:11, Paul calls the Father God and Jesus Lord. The reason every knee shall bow to Jesus is because Jesus has been made Lord. In Isaiah 45, Jesus hadn’t been made Lord yet. Just my opinion of course, but that’s how the Bible reads to me.

I’m also quite certain the church in general has misunderstood the Oneness of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There’s enough verses about it to cross examine it so that an accurate rendering of it can be produced. I won’t do that here, but I may open a thread on it later.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hi Xavier, I’d like to point out that in Phil 2:11, Paul calls the Father God and Jesus Lord. The reason every knee shall bow to Jesus is because Jesus has been made Lord. In Isaiah 45, Jesus hadn’t been made Lord yet. Just my opinion of course, but that’s how the Bible reads to me.

I’m also quite certain the church in general has misunderstood the Oneness of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There’s enough verses about it to cross examine it so that an accurate rendering of it can be produced. I won’t do that here, but I may open a thread on it later.

Hi RM. Disagree. Paul says Jesus was in very nature God before He took on the Nature of a Servant, which means e.g. when Isaiah was written. Isaiah himself say Christ is God with us in 7:14 and in 9:6 He calls Him Mighty God, the Prince of Peace.

Here is one example of Christ's Pre-Existence: "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan 3:25) Christ was already Lord and Son of God at this time. He freely renounced all the Privileges of His Power to come down from Heaven. Then the Father gave it back.

And again, in Daniel, it says the Son of Man, again Jesus was worshipped in Heaven: "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." (Dan 7:14)

Here is another declaration Christ is equal to God in the NT: "18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (Jn 5:18). Hence Son of God means He is Co-Equal with the Father.

Does Paul calling the Father as God and Jesus as Lord mean the Father is not Lord? Of course not. Neither does it mean Jesus is not God. Paul likes to say One God, One Lord, One Spirit. That is his manner of expressing the Trinity. In many of his writings, he openly calls Jesus as God, as do also the other Apostles.

Here is Paul elsewhere: "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Tit 2:13)

God Bless.

 

[Runningman]

Hi RM. Disagree. Paul says Jesus was in very nature God before He took on the Nature of a Servant, which means e.g. when Isaiah was written. Isaiah himself say Christ is God with us in 7:14 and in 9:6 He calls Him Mighty God, the Prince of Peace.

Here is one example of Christ's Pre-Existence: "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan 3:25) Christ was already Lord and Son of God at this time. He freely renounced all the Privileges of His Power to come down from Heaven. Then the Father gave it back.

Agreed, but what verse says the Son of God freely renounced all the privileges of his power to come down from heaven? When did the Father give it back?

And again, in Daniel, it says the Son of Man, again Jesus was worshipped in Heaven: "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." (Dan 7:14)

That's a prophecy of the Millennial Kingdom, it's evident in the context.

Here is another declaration Christ is equal to God in the NT: "18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (Jn 5:18). Hence Son of God means He is Co-Equal with the Father.

This verse also says Jesus was breaking the Sabbath, but he didn't did he? This verse is about the false charges against Jesus.

Does Paul calling the Father as God and Jesus as Lord mean the Father is not Lord? Of course not. Neither does it mean Jesus is not God. Paul likes to say One God, One Lord, One Spirit. That is his manner of expressing the Trinity. In many of his writings, he openly calls Jesus as God, as do also the other Apostles.

If there was any verse plainly demonstrating that I may be in agreement. I don't see anything.

Side note: none of the Apostles called Jesus God aside from Thomas.

Here is Paul elsewhere: "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Tit 2:13)

God Bless.

Paul is talking about the appearing of God and the Savior Jesus Christ. Here's another verse that discusses the appearing of God and Jesus Christ together.

1 Thessalonians 4
14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Anyway, always nice to hear different perspectives. God bless.

 

[Franc254]

Hi RM. Disagree. Paul says Jesus was in very nature God before He took on the Nature of a Servant, which means e.g. when Isaiah was written. Isaiah himself say Christ is God with us in 7:14 and in 9:6 He calls Him Mighty God, the Prince of Peace.

Here is one example of Christ's Pre-Existence: "He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." (Dan 3:25) Christ was already Lord and Son of God at this time. He freely renounced all the Privileges of His Power to come down from Heaven. Then the Father gave it back.

And again, in Daniel, it says the Son of Man, again Jesus was worshipped in Heaven: "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." (Dan 7:14)

Here is another declaration Christ is equal to God in the NT: "18Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (Jn 5:18). Hence Son of God means He is Co-Equal with the Father.

Does Paul calling the Father as God and Jesus as Lord mean the Father is not Lord? Of course not. Neither does it mean Jesus is not God. Paul likes to say One God, One Lord, One Spirit. That is his manner of expressing the Trinity. In many of his writings, he openly calls Jesus as God, as do also the other Apostles.

Here is Paul elsewhere: "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Tit 2:13)

God Bless.

youre right buddy ...same being different form

Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. "....

When that day comes, I will seek to destroy
all nations attacking Yerushalayim;
10 and I will pour out on the house of David
and on those living in Yerushalayim
a spirit of grace and prayer;
and they will look to me, whom they pierced.”

And I will pour upon the Bais Dovid, and upon the inhabitants of Yerushalayim, the Ruach (Spirit) of Chen (grace) and of Tachanunim (supplications for favor); and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced [dakar, "pierce through" cf. Yeshayah 53:5; Targum HaShivim Tehillim 22:17], and they shall mourn for Him (Moshiach) as one mourneth for his yachid (only son), and shall grieve in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his bechor (firstborn).


John " For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”



Rev 1:7

"Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. "

 

[wattie]

The things Jesus did while in the flesh were fully God activities. He was doing something like 'self-limiting' but was never lesser than the Father-- only in position. And then that changed when He ascended.

Jesus forgave sin in the 3rd person while in the flesh. That's fully God powers. Doesn't matter if the Father gave Him the authority-- no one else on earth could do that. And receiving worship-- that's not like a king receiving worship from a humble servant. Jesus received worship from some of those who were considered great in themselves.

I need to find the quotes from the Case for Christ about Jesus' diety while in the flesh. But coming down in the flesh and being a man-- does that make Him lesser than the Father? Or is that showing His unlimited grace and power to be the Lamb of God?

But the primary thing that makes Jesus co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit, is that if He is inferior to either-- He is another god imo.

One triune God. How can His personas be unequal if He is one God?

 

[Runningman]

John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

John 20
23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

[Franc254]

The things Jesus did while in the flesh were fully God activities. He was doing something like 'self-limiting' but was never lesser than the Father-- only in position. And then that changed when He ascended.

Jesus forgave sin in the 3rd person while in the flesh. That's fully God powers. Doesn't matter if the Father gave Him the authority-- no one else on earth could do that. And receiving worship-- that's not like a king receiving worship from a humble servant. Jesus received worship from some of those who were considered great in themselves.

I need to find the quotes from the Case for Christ about Jesus' diety while in the flesh. But coming down in the flesh and being a man-- does that make Him lesser than the Father? Or is that showing His unlimited grace and power to be the Lamb of God?

But the primary thing that makes Jesus co-equal with the Father and Holy Spirit, is that if He is inferior to either-- He is another god imo.

One triune God. How can His personas be unequal if He is one God?

John 14:23

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them ...what do you think that verse means...we will just learn slowly

 

[Cameron143]

John 14:23

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them ...what do you think that verse means...we will just learn slowly

Tabernacling is triangular?

 

[Franc254]

Tabernacling is triangular?

whats that am not trinitarian so i dont know what that means

 

[wattie]

John 14:23

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them ...what do you think that verse means...we will just learn slowly

Well I'll find scripture for this.. but Jesus does the same thing. Same essence/substance as the Father.. but not actually the Father.

 

[Cameron143]

whats that am not trinitarian so i dont know what that means

I apologize. It was a joke. The word translated home in your post is translated tabernacle in the KJV.
I do believe, though, that John 14:23 is tied to John 17:3.

 

[Franc254]

This is what I understand by that verse ...right now the Father and the Son are in for example in a christian through the Holy Spirit....


how is this possible (this is my opinion) ...

Johhn 20:17

"“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." Now when Jesus rose, he told mary magdalene that he was acsending to his Father and his Father was also Her father...being that she was a disciple ...so there is the Father....

Lets see another verse about the Father Jesus used

Matthew 10:20

"When you are arrested, don’t worry about how to respond or what to say. God will give you the right words at the right time. 20 For it is not you who will be speaking—it will be the Spirit of your Father speaking through you" so upto now we now the spirit of your father is the Holy Spirit as in Mark 13 :11 "But when you are arrested and stand trial, don’t worry in advance about what to say. Just say what God tells you at that time, for it is not you who will be speaking, but the Holy Spirit."

Galatians 4:4-6 paul says

"But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. 5 God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children.[b] 6 And because we[c] are his children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, prompting us to call out, “Abba, Father. "...


so the Father and the son making home in me is through the Holy spirit...



Romans 8:9-11 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) 10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life[d] because you have been made right with God. 11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

 

[wattie]

John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

John 20
23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

That's human.. person to person forgiveness. A person can say they forgive someone who hasn't offended them directly, but they would be strange.

Jesus ..like I posted can forgive entire groups of people and they hadn't directly offended Him.

 

[Runningman]

That's human.. person to person forgiveness. A person can say they forgive someone who hasn't offended them directly, but they would be strange.

Jesus ..like I posted can forgive entire groups of people and they hadn't directly offended Him.

I don’t think Jesus needed to inform them that if they forgive a fellow human then the result would be they’re forgiven. Seems a bit too obvious and anticlimactic to point something like that out quickly before Jesus ascended to his Father. I don’t think Jesus spoke that way. Just my opinion, but I can’t say you’re wrong. I’m not aware of any verses of examples of apostles forgiving someone’s sins. So there’s that.

Wouldn’t it be more meaningful if Jesus meant the apostles were given authority to literally forgive offenses against Lord God Almighty? I believe that’s what Jesus meant, but I think it stopped with the apostles. I don’t believe anyone alive today has authority to forgive sins.

 

[notonmywatch]

I don’t think Jesus needed to inform them that if they forgive a fellow human then the result would be they’re forgiven. Seems a bit too obvious and anticlimactic to point something like that out quickly before Jesus ascended to his Father. I don’t think Jesus spoke that way. Just my opinion, but I can’t say you’re wrong. I’m not aware of any verses of examples of apostles forgiving someone’s sins. So there’s that.

Wouldn’t it be more meaningful if Jesus meant the apostles were given authority to literally forgive offenses against Lord God Almighty? I believe that’s what Jesus meant, but I think it stopped with the apostles. I don’t believe anyone alive today has authority to forgive sins.

I believe that we all have the authority to either remit or retain sins based solely upon one's response to the true gospel message. If they receive the message, then we can tell them that their sins are remitted. If they reject the message, then we can tell them that their sins are retained.

 

[wattie]

I believe that we all have the authority to either remit or retain sins based solely upon one's response to the true gospel message. If they receive the message, then we can tell them that their sins are remitted. If they reject the message, then we can tell them that their sins are retained.

I understand we can forgive someone who has trespassed against us. But what a person can't do is forgive sin of someone who hasn't directly offended them.

So if jo blogs hurt me by stealing something of mine.. I could forgive Jo because he is very poor and needs the item.

A group can apologize for atrocities done eg.. catholicism with pedophilia and the southern Baptists with racism.

Those offended could then choose not to hold against them the atrocities.

But Jesus... actually Has power over sin to clear it spiritually. And forgive someone for offending not Himself but someone else. (Although all sin is an offense to Him).

We can't be Jesus. We are imperfect.. He is sinless. We can follow His commands by His grace.

We can say to someone.. Jesus forgives your sin if they believe in Him.. but can't actually pardon their sins spiritually, only in not holding against them.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

"If you have forgiven anything to any one, I forgive also, for what I have forgiven I have done it for your sakes in the person of Christ." 2 Corinthians 2:10