Jesus IS King!!!

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preacher4truth said:
Not a problem.

Yet it is what you are attempting when you call a real story and allegory. That and you skip right past that part because it refutes your position. If what you are saying above were your position, and you were consistent in it, you'd see that God does only allow satan to do certain things, all to God's purpose, all to His glory and it is not the only incident ion Scripture. Do you recall the lying spirit God summoned to deceive Ahab through a false prophet? There are more instances. Albeit it is a difficult thing for us to comprehend in our finite minds.

Thanks for granting me permission. :p

That's because it is exactly what it is teaching, and again there are more passages that show this truth. God is Sovereign over satan as well, he does God's bidding.
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By me saying that the story of Job is an allegory - I am making it false? How? This is the only passage of scripture that says: Satan appeared before God and was granted to put forth his hand against Job - WHY? Satan wanted Job to curse God. That is the point . . . and Job never thought about it being Satan causing all his problems, he thought it was God. Job didn't know Satan from a hill of beans. There is not much given in the OT concerning Satan and his characteristics so most things are attributed to God . . . there is something wrong when we attribute Satan's characteristics to God because if God allows Satan to do "His bidding" - it is the same as God doing it. God and Satan being sort of like partners in crime, in cahoots together . . . Satan ask to do something and God allows it - You do realize that you are saying God contributes to evil . . . Godislight, and in him is no darkness at all.

BUT there are lessons to learn - Job just loved God anyway - through all the things that happened to him EVEN believing that it was God doing it, Job never cursed God. He never hardened his heart against God . . . also a lesson learned: that tribulation and troubles rain on the just and the unjust alike . . .

Through revelation given in the NT we today know that there is a real war going on between good and evil, and that the Devil, not God, is the true source of evil - That is something that Job was never taught. Thank God, we know the characteristics of God and the characteristics of Satan, One light the other darkness and instead of asking as Job did: Why are you doing this to me?" We can say: "Father, see what is happening to me in my life. Will you help me?" The devil is nothing but a slanderer, a murderer, a liar . . . God does not work with him but against him.

 
JoDel said:
IF....Satan was NOT RESTRAINED, being God's and God's people mortal enemy, whose obsessive evil goal is to STEAL, KILL, and DESTROY any and ALL having to do with God's people... Wouldn't it be simple to understand that were he NOT RESTRAINED, his plans of complete annihilation of God's people in one fell swoosh would be evident? ~ Just sayin'...
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Where does this section of scripture say that Satan is restrained? 2 Thess. 2


 
peacefulbeliever said:
Where does this section of scripture say that Satan is restrained? 2 Thess. 2
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2 Thess. 2-8 "That you don't let your minds get quickly rattled or become anxious of someone else's so-called "spiritual revelation" or because someone gave you a message or claimed to know of a letter allegedly from us reporting the the day of the Lord has already come. Don't be deceived by anyone! That day, that amazing day won't come until after the great rebellion and the unveiling of the rebellious one.As the spawn of death, he delights in destruction. He sets himself up as the great adversary of God and vies for a plave above all other so-called gods or objects of worship IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, HE WOULD EVEN TAKE A SEAT---YES, EXALT HIMSELF---IN THE TEMPLE OF THE ONE TRUE GOD. DONT YOU REMEMBER ME TELLING YOU ALL THIS THE LAST TIME WE WERE TOGETHER? 6.YOU KNOW WHAT RESTRAINS HIM NOW AND WHAT WILL HOLD HIM UNTIL THE EXACT TIME WHE HE WILL BE REVEALED. FOR THE MYSTERY OF SIN IS ALREADY WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE WORLD; HE WHO holds him back now will continue to SUPPRESS him ONLY until HE is pulled out of the way. IT IS THEN, that this rebellious one will finally be UNLEASHED...
 
Amen...and EVERY KNEE will bow and EVERY tongue will confess Him as LORD...some willingly and many forced before being cast into the proverbial lake-o-fire.......
 
peacefulbeliever said:
: Satan appeared before God and was granted to put forth his hand against Job - WHY? Satan wanted Job to curse God. That is the point . . . and Job never thought about it being Satan causing all his problems, he thought it was God.
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Of course he thought it was God because, as he stated it came from God allowing it. We receive good and bad at the hand of God. Job even stated it as such, plainly, and it was not sinful for him to do so:

But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.-- Job 2:10

That Job was vindicated, that he didn't sin with his lips shows the meaning of the text: receiving both good and bad at the hand of God is what Job was saying. :)
 
JoDel said:
2 Thess. 2-8 "That you don't let your minds get quickly rattled or become anxious of someone else's so-called "spiritual revelation" or because someone gave you a message or claimed to know of a letter allegedly from us reporting the the day of the Lord has already come. Don't be deceived by anyone! That day, that amazing day won't come until after the great rebellion and the unveiling of the rebellious one.As the spawn of death, he delights in destruction. He sets himself up as the great adversary of God and vies for a plave above all other so-called gods or objects of worship IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, HE WOULD EVEN TAKE A SEAT---YES, EXALT HIMSELF---IN THE TEMPLE OF THE ONE TRUE GOD. DONT YOU REMEMBER ME TELLING YOU ALL THIS THE LAST TIME WE WERE TOGETHER?6.YOU KNOW WHAT RESTRAINS HIM NOW AND WHAT WILL HOLD HIM UNTIL THE EXACT TIME WHE HE WILL BE REVEALED. FOR THE MYSTERY OF SIN IS ALREADY WORKING ITS WAY THROUGH THE WORLD; HE WHO holds him back now will continue to SUPPRESS him ONLY until HE is pulled out of the way. IT IS THEN, that this rebellious one will finally be UNLEASHED...
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You really don't have to raise your voice - I heard you the first time . . . I can read and this verse is talking about holding back the man of sin, the son of perdition, the wicked one - the one whose coming is after the working of Satan who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God . . . I believe this is talking about the false prophet or the antichrist. It sure isn't talking about Satan - Satan is not out of the way until the he is bound for a thousand years and then finally cast into the lake of fire and brimstone.
 
peacefulbeliever said:
You really don't have to raise your voice -
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Raise my voice? That's funny. I was very quiet while typing what you requested. And the large, bold, underlined print was for your ease to read. And ... you didn't see it the first time, because if you go back in the thread, you will see it there.... THE FIRST TIME. Your problem is with "semantics".
 
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preacher4truth said:
Of course he thought it was God because, as he stated it came from God allowing it. We receive good and bad at the hand of God. Job even stated it as such, plainly, and it was not sinful for him to do so:

But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women would speak. Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips.-- Job 2:10

That Job was vindicated, that he didn't sin with his lips shows the meaning of the text: receiving both good and bad at the hand of God is what Job was saying. :)
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Job did not state that it came from "God allowing it" . . . God did lift his hedge of protection from Job . . . that is how Satan gained entry into his life to destroy it - BUT Job NEVER cursed God . . . Satan wanted the hedge of protection lifted thinking he could prove Job would curse God. His intentions failed.

And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. . . . Is this what we are supposed to do - evil so that good may come? Then how and why would God do evil so that good may come?
 
JoDel said:
Raise my voice? That's funny. I was very quiet while typing what you requested. And the large, bold, underlined print was for your ease to read. And ... you didn't see it the first time, because if you go back in the thread, you will see it there.... THE FIRST TIME. Your problem is with "semantics".
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All caps are a way of raising your voice when in a chat room . . . semantics??? I know that one coming after the workings of Satan is not Satan himself . . .
 
this thread is so very sad because of so much opposition instead of coop-er-ation!:o

we must always try and work together with the scripture in order what the
'whole council of God is'...
 
sevenseas said:
check out my posts in this thread started by Angela

it's a thread about WOF

read my posts and then tell me whether I am for or against WOF

here's the thread. if you are going to identify someone, at least get it right

HERE
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You can link directly to your posts by right clicking the post # on the blue bar and "copy link location" or something along those lines. Makes it easier. P4T is referring to a thread where you jumped on one side (the reformed side) for exposing WoF, and then turned around and jumped on the WoF side as well. I remember this happening too. However, I think me and you did finally come to an understanding when I posted about lordship salvation as opposed to easy believism on the "not by works thread". You did respond with "now I get it" or "finally, that makes sense (in a positive uncondemning way)" or something along those lines. I personally don't have anything against you and am glad you oppose WoF. It does suck that you also discredit the reformed side as well though.

As far as one side or the other having the full truth disclosed? I'd have to say that reformed side is by far more biblically sound than any other camp one might belong to. Truth is absolute and not a subjective thing. The work of the Holy Spirit is even "to lead you into all truth" (Jhn 16:13). If we all aren't eventually arriving at the same truth (because it can't mean two things), then someone is wrong somewhere.
 
peacefulbeliever said:
All caps are a way of raising your voice when in a chat room . . . semantics??? I know that one coming after the workings of Satan is not Satan himself . . .
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Hmmm I guess there's a lot of that going on, since I see hundreds of ALL CAPS. Mine, were for emphasis. I think you're too sensitive about font style.
 
peacefulbeliever said:
Okay - please just show me an example from the NT that Satan ask permission from God to do something?

The first two chapters of Job are set as an allegory; (a story in which the characters and events are symbols that stand for truths about human life) - To teach that the righteous suffer along with the unrighteous, i.e. if you suffer it is not because you are unrighteous, as Job's miserable comforters were telling him - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.. (Matt. 5:45)

Thank you for your advice . . . .
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Sissy...I mean that in a respectful manner, if the Christ is not ruling now, then none would be saved. If He saves us inspite of the devil, and He does, then He is over him. So, he may be 'god' of this world, but He is God, King, over Satan.
 
peacefulbeliever said:
Just to add concerning the book of Job . . . The main point of this record of Job is that no matter what happened to him, he refused to harden his heart and turn away from God. That was the whole point of Satan wanting to destroy all that Job had to make Job curse God - "and he will curse you to your face". Satan did not accomplish what he set out to do . . . Job did NOT curse God. And Job didn't even know that Satan was the one doing this to him; he truly believed that God was doing these things - the NT reveals the true character of Satan - that he comes only to steal, kill and destroy.
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Satan literally appeared before God. He literally killed Job's kids. He literally stole his possession. He literally appeared before God again. He literally afflicted Job. Job literally told his wife she spoke as one of the foolish women. Satan literally could do no more than God allowed him to do.

The book of Job is a literal truth and not an allegory.
 
preacher4truth said:
Not a problem.



Yet it is what you are attempting when you call a real story and allegory. That and you skip right past that part because it refutes your position. If what you are saying above were your position, and you were consistent in it, you'd see that God does only allow satan to do certain things, all to God's purpose, all to His glory and it is not the only incident ion Scripture. Do you recall the lying spirit God summoned to deceive Ahab through a false prophet? There are more instances. Albeit it is a difficult thing for us to comprehend in our finite minds.



Thanks for granting me permission. :p

That's because it is exactly what it is teaching, and again there are more passages that show this truth. God is Sovereign over satan as well, he does God's bidding.
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They may not agree with this, but they are, in essence, saying God is not Sovereign over Satan. That's the (il)logic of their view. :eek:
 
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