Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[just-me]

Well, I gave you the scriptures for you to read, so with your post and what you said I will quote. Paul was instructed and like all others like me and him, were/are not able to follow it with perfection. We agree on that one for sure.

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is there a difference between observing and believing in your opinion? Semantics I suppose.

Obviously there is.

Galatians 3:2-5
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


All that the law and prophets could do was describe what we would have by the Spirit through Christ. How would you not believe the description of what you have when you have it? Of course you would believe the description and the prophecy of it.

Do you believe that the Light casts a shadow? Yes. Do you observe the shadow or the Light? Paul observed the Light.

Observing is watching. Observing is to see the spiritual concepts of what it represents. If we see the truth in our observation, we believe it as Paul believed it in Acts 24:14. I like what Paul believed. Substance and light are necessary to cast a shadow. If we, as professing Christians want the shadow gone, because we have the substance of faith (Hebrews 11:1) then we have to also get rid of the light and substance. That makes no sense to me, and also substantiates the words of Jesus saying that nothing would pass from the original law just because he fulfilled His vow as our Savior. I observe 3 things in relation to Spirit, Son, and Father. Substance which is faith, light which is Christ, and the shadow reminds me of both that directs my attention to God Almighty.

 

[Jason0047]

The Torah, The law, is so holy, but no one could keep it until Jesus.

Did you think the Eternal Word or Christ did not exist before the Incarnation? Do you think the Jew back then read Ezekiel 36:26-27 as applying to some future person or for themselves? If you lived back then as a Jew, how could you not read that portion of Scripture as not applying to you?

 

[Jason0047]

If that is the case the Word contradicts itself. Too bad that so many do not understand that Jesus Christ our Lord created all things and He is the same yesterday today and forever. Heaven and earth are still here. Even though new wine cannot be fermented in an old skin, doesn't mean you have to refuse the fermented wine in the old skin. Drink it first as God planned, and then throw the old skin away. "And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." Leviticus 26:10

You are still quoting the Old and not relying on the New when you say that. Jesus wants us to focus on the New Testament and not the Old Testament. For does one still seek to build a temple to offer animal sacrifices again? Jesus said no man could put new wine into old wine skins. You either believe him or you don't when he said that.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Well, the Law is not in reference to just the Law of Moses alone every time it is mentioned in the New Testament; However, it was also mentioned sometimes as being in reference to the Law and the prophets (i.e. prophecy). In other words, sometimes the word "Law" mentioned in the New Testament was in reference to the entire Old Testament.

Law and the Prophets | Learn The Bible

So when Jesus said he came to fulfill and not to destroy that is exactly what he meant. Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses, but yet he came not to destroy or do away with all portions of the Law obviously because we still cannot murder, steal, covet, etc. and there are prophecies in the Law and the prophets within the Old Testament that have yet to come to pass or be fulfilled.

Think of it in terms of an apple seed and a tree with the apple seed being the Old Testament and the tree being the New Testament. Jesus did not come to destroy the apple seed. He did not take a hammer and completely destroy everything that has come before by smashing that apple seed with a hammer. Everything in the Old was leading up to everything in the New. For in order for an apple seed to fulfill it's potential it must be planted in the ground whereby it can become an apple tree. It is now different than what it was before. The apple tree is no longer an apple seed in and of itself anymore. It is changed. However, this does not negate the apple seed with it being planted in the ground for it to grow and fulfill it's intended purpose, though.

Christ doesn't replace His own words. The Father and the Son are the architects of salvation and of the chronological events from the beginning.

It's not a matter of replacing so much as it is a matter of fulfillment. He came to fulfill. That's what he said.

Colossians 1:12-19 "He is before all things, and by him all things consist."

I agree with that passage in what it says. But I do not see how that proves your case, though.

 

[Jason0047]

For you cannot obey both the Old and the New. It's impossible. They do not even all agree with each other. Yes, many Laws do line up between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. But there are many Laws that conflict with each other, too.

Just look at all of the New Testmant Commands and tell me how they all agree with the Old Testament Commands?

1,050 + New Testament Commands

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[Pumicestone]

I thought that JC allegedly said that he came NOT to destroy the law .... 'not one not or title would pass away' .... etc etc
Seems to me he was an observant Jew. Did they not call him 'Rabbi' ?

I reckon he would have been aghast at any suggestion that he was God or a god or any part of God. Blasphemy indeed !
It seems that Paul and his cronies created that stuff much later - and the 'trinity' was invented still later again.

 

[Jason0047]

I thought that JC allegedly said that he came NOT to destroy the law .... 'not one not or title would pass away' .... etc etc
Seems to me he was an observant Jew. Did they not call him 'Rabbi' ?

I reckon he would have been aghast at any suggestion that he was God or a god or any part of God. Blasphemy indeed !
It seems that Paul and his cronies created that stuff much later - and the 'trinity' was invented still later again.

What standard are you going to be judged by? Your own standard of what you think should be in God's Word? Or do you think you will be judged by God's Word? In other words, you cannot tear out certain pages in your Bible just because you don't like it. The Bible is one complete package. All of it is true. For what is the point in following God by having faith in His Word if we are going to just re-write it?

 

[Jason0047]

For obiously not all commands apply to all people within the Bible. We are not commanded to not eat of the wrong tree in the Garden and we are not commanded to build an Ark like Noah. In other words, in the Old Testament, the Law of Moses was for the Jew; And in the New Testament, the Law of Christ is for the body of Christ (Both Jew and Gentile).

 

[Blain]

I don't mean to be pushy but for those who say the law is dead I would like an honest answer to this post I made earlier


God himself and said these words will not pass away. The law does not save us and our works on how we keep the law doesn't either but the heart behind keeping it is what pleases God. Don't follow the law and keep his commandments because you think you have to do it because you love him.

He says to love the Lord your God with all your mind all your soul and all your strength, do you disagree? He says to love your neighbor as yourself which is where the phrase treat others as you want to be treated came from do you disagree? He said to not lie to not steal to not kill do you disagree? The law is not gone it is written on the hearts of those who truly love and adore God

 

[Jason0047]

I don't mean to be pushy but for those who say the law is dead I would like an honest answer to this post I made earlier


God himself and said these words will not pass away. The law does not save us and our works on how we keep the law doesn't either but the heart behind keeping it is what pleases God. Don't follow the law and keep his commandments because you think you have to do it because you love him.

He says to love the Lord your God with all your mind all your soul and all your strength, do you disagree? He says to love your neighbor as yourself which is where the phrase treat others as you want to be treated came from do you disagree? He said to not lie to not steal to not kill do you disagree? The law is not gone it is written on the hearts of those who truly love and adore God

Yes, those who have the Law written in their heart and truly love God and love other people are going to show forth good fruit and not bad fruit within their life. They are going to in time live a changed life because of God. They are changed by love and they will live in obedience to Jesus Christ and His teachings under the New Testament. If one says it is impossible to follow Jesus Christ, then they are not a true follower of Jesus Christ. They are merely professing to have faith in Him and yet they are not really letting God's love transform them. They are not letting God live within their heart and lives. For God is the source of their salvation. If they are affected by love, then they will love according to the teachings of Jesus Christ. To deny the teachings of Jesus Christ and or to say they are optional is to make your own teaching that is simply not true.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, we are saved by grace thru faith and not of works. Yet, how do you define your faith, though. Is not faith dead without works? Well, the key to resolving Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2:17 is understanding that God does the work in you and it is not you alone. Hence, why we are not saved by works because God does the good work within the believer. However, if a believer refuses to yield to God's Spirit wanting to do the good work within them, then how are they in favor with God if they are refusing to do His will? Will the Lord continue to abide in that servant who is wicked and sinful against Him all their life?

 

[Jason0047]

For whatever happened to the unprofitable servant that was mentioned in the New Testament? Does it sound like they will be in Heaven?

 

[just-me]

For you cannot obey both the Old and the New. It's impossible. They do not even all agree with each other. Yes, many Laws do line up between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. But there are many Laws that conflict with each other, too.

Just look at all of the New Testmant Commands and tell me how they all agree with the Old Testament Commands?

1,050 + New Testament Commands

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Jason0047 An eye for an eye agrees with the turning of the other cheek in relation to the God of equity.
The carnal mind says they do not agree with each other. It takes Spiritual understanding to see the agreement. God and Jesus are not opposed to each other, for a house divided against itself cannot stand.

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7
"Ye shall know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:16a

I think that some believers in the Word of God fail to understand that there are 2 parts that are identified in the law God gave to Moses. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Speaking of Himself, then later in the scriptures, Paul says we are the temple.

The question arises concerning the law. What did Jesus fulfill, and through the grace of Christ, by faith, what is it that we are supposed to fulfill in response to the belief we have in Christ loving God in return? The temple worship is physically done away with. I present some questions to all who read this.

Have we received the Spirit of understanding all of God's words that He has ever spoken?
Are the teachings of Christ really against the law that God gave Moses concerning our responsibility?
Is it right to say what Jesus fulfilled also includes a reciprocation from us that involves all of what He has spoken?
When did the New Testament really take effect, and are the teachings of Christ actually Old Testament truths?

Fulfilling the law is what Jesus did in respect to the sacrifices, yet we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice also. This includes our responsibility toward Him as we are to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

Why in the world do we desire to negate those things we are responsible for when we are to love Him His way?
Do we desire to love our way instead of loving Him and others His way?

I have even heard some say that Jesus had the right to change the law. Maybe so, but if that were the case, why would He say that whatever He said was from His Father who doesn't change. "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49

If change was the cure for salvation's sake, then God is a liar and we cannot believe in a lie.
"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Malachi 3:6

 

[Jason0047]

Jason0047 An eye for an eye agrees with the turning of the other cheek in relation to the God of equity.
The carnal mind says they do not agree with each other. It takes Spiritual understanding to see the agreement. God and Jesus are not opposed to each other, for a house divided against itself cannot stand.

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7
"Ye shall know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:16a

I think that some believers in the Word of God fail to understand that there are 2 parts that are identified in the law God gave to Moses. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Speaking of Himself, then later in the scriptures, Paul says we are the temple.

The question arises concerning the law. What did Jesus fulfill, and through the grace of Christ, by faith, what is it that we are supposed to fulfill in response to the belief we have in Christ loving God in return? The temple worship is physically done away with. I present some questions to all who read this.

Have we received the Spirit of understanding all of God's words that He has ever spoken?
Are the teachings of Christ really against the law that God gave Moses concerning our responsibility?
Is it right to say what Jesus fulfilled also includes a reciprocation from us that involves all of what He has spoken?
When did the New Testament really take effect, and are the teachings of Christ actually Old Testament truths?

Fulfilling the law is what Jesus did in respect to the sacrifices, yet we are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice also. This includes our responsibility toward Him as we are to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

Why in the world do we desire to negate those things we are responsible for when we are to love Him His way?
Do we desire to love our way instead of loving Him and others His way?

I have even heard some say that Jesus had the right to change the law. Maybe so, but if that were the case, why would He say that whatever He said was from His Father who doesn't change. "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49

If change was the cure for salvation's sake, then God is a liar and we cannot believe in a lie.
"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed." Malachi 3:6

You yourself have said temple worship worship is done away with. Yet, animal sacrifices is a part of the Old Testament Law. Yet, James says, if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all. So if you believe you can break the law of animal sacrifices, then you are guilty of breaking all of the OT Law. Peter was told to eat unclean animals which is a violation of OT Law. So no. We are not under the Old Testament Law anymore. We are under the Law of Christ under the New Testament. Although Christ primarily taught New Covenant and not Old Covenant, the New Testament went officially into effect with His death. For the Scriptures say, a testament is not in effect until there is the death of the testator.

 

[just-me]

I don't mean to be pushy but for those who say the law is dead I would like an honest answer to this post I made earlier


God himself and said these words will not pass away. The law does not save us and our works on how we keep the law doesn't either but the heart behind keeping it is what pleases God. Don't follow the law and keep his commandments because you think you have to do it because you love him.

He says to love the Lord your God with all your mind all your soul and all your strength, do you disagree? He says to love your neighbor as yourself which is where the phrase treat others as you want to be treated came from do you disagree? He said to not lie to not steal to not kill do you disagree? The law is not gone it is written on the hearts of those who truly love and adore God

Amen brother!

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

This is how to love God. This is the fulfilling of the law on our part. Instructions of exacting love.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

This is how to love our neighbor as ourselves. This is the fulfilling of the law on our part.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31

I don't see a difference in Christ's law and God's law.

 

[Jason0047]

Amen brother!

Deuteronomy 6:1-6
1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the Lord thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

This is how to love God. This is the fulfilling of the law on our part. Instructions of exacting love.

Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

This is how to love our neighbor as ourselves. This is the fulfilling of the law on our part.

"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31

I don't see a difference in Christ's law and God's law.

Jesus Christ is God. So there is no God's Law and Christ's Law. God's Law is the Law of Christ. Jesus said, if you loved me, you would keep his commandments. The Law of Moses? No. The Law of Christ as mentioned in the New Testament. For a person cannot obey both the Old and the New because many of it's Laws conflict with one another.

 

[Jason0047]

As for an eye for an eye and Jesus saying to turn the other cheek:

Well, the Old Testament was allowing for you to get justice, whereas in the New Testament Jesus is saying that you are to pray for those who are your enemy and to do good unto those who despitefully use you. For we are not to render evil for evil under the New Testament. For none of the apostles fought back and used their fists of fury and or double edged swords. They instead relied upon God and trusted in the double edged sword known as the Word of God instead. The apostles of Jesus were persecuted for their faith and they did not wage war against their enemies like God had made the Israelites to do (So as to protect a nation that was to be a Light to the rest of the world).

 

[just-me]

You yourself have said temple worship worship is done away with. Yet, animal sacrifices is a part of the Old Testament Law. Yet, James says, if you break one law you are guilty of breaking them all. So if you believe you can break the law of animal sacrifices, then you are guilty of breaking all of the OT Law. Peter was told to eat unclean animals which is a violation of OT Law. So no. We are not under the Old Testament Law anymore. We are under the Law of Christ under the New Testament. Although Christ primarily taught New Covenant and not Old Covenant, the New Testament went officially into effect with His death. For the Scriptures say, a testament is not in effect until there is the death of the testator.

Get real. Is it recorded that Peter actually ate unclean animals or was it actually for him to see that in the New Covenant that Gentiles were offered the same status as believing Jews?
A burnt offering represents devotion if you study the sacrificial law which Jesus fulfilled. Is He not the Mediator?
A peace offering represents contact with God and being able to communicate with Him because we are accepted into His presence.
Trespass offerings and sin offerings are sacrifices that are standing in the place of a sinner for atonement. That's why hands were laid on the head of the sacrifice before the slaughtering. Can you not understand the spiritual concept with sacrifice and the way they still work these days?

You desire for the Father and the Son to be separated when Jesus is now sitting on the Father's right hand side? Wow!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If that is the case the Word contradicts itself. Too bad that so many do not understand that Jesus Christ our Lord created all things and He is the same yesterday today and forever. Heaven and earth are still here. Even though new wine cannot be fermented in an old skin, doesn't mean you have to refuse the fermented wine in the old skin. Drink it first as God planned, and then throw the old skin away. "And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new." Leviticus 26:10

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18

Christ doesn't replace His own words. The Father and the Son are the architects of salvation and of the chronological events from the beginning.

Colossians 1:12-19 "He is before all things, and by him all things consist."

I would just like to ask you - Why do we have a NEW Testament? What is the purpose of the New Testament if nothing has changed and everything is as it was under the OT?

Why are you always pitting the OT against the NT? The OT was written for our learning to teach us that through the endurance of the OT believers, we too are encouraged and provided with hope. [Rom. 15:4]

 

[Blain]

Sigh.... this is why I hate threads about the law.....

 

[just-me]

As for an eye for an eye and Jesus saying to turn the other cheek:

Well, the Old Testament was allowing for you to get justice, whereas in the New Testament Jesus is saying that you are to pray for those who are your enemy and to do good unto those who despitefully use you. For we are not to render evil for evil under the New Testament. For none of the apostles fought back and used their fists of fury and or double edged swords. They instead relied upon God and trusted in the double edged sword known as the Word of God instead. The apostles of Jesus were persecuted for their faith and they did not wage war against their enemies like God had made the Israelites to do (So as to protect a nation that was to be a Light to the rest of the world).

We are not to make judgments concerning vengance, for it is God's right not ours. God is a God of equity, and if you study the law of the eye for an eye thing you would see that it is not humans who make the equity status right. Jesus didn't change the concepts of God's equity, and how we are suppose to adhere to that by loving Him and our neighbor.