Jew/Muslim; Race, Religion or Both?

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GuitarPraise

Guest
#1
First off I don't want this to be a rant of who is right or who is wrong. Understand this is ONLY the beginning. If you want to correct/discredit me please be a Jew or Muslim as I have personal friends on both sides.

Jews and Muslims are unlike any other religion in that they are BOTH a race AND a religion. Let us examine why. Genesis 25 shows us that Abraham had ten male children but it only referrers to two of them as his sons. And here is the great divide, Jews are descendants of Issac and Muslims are descendants of Ishmael. Each side believes they are descendants of the promised child and the other are not. Muslims believe Ishmael was the promise child and the bible teaches us Issac was. Irregardless of who is right and who is wrong, they are both descendants of Abraham. Ironically neither side believes that Jesus was the messiah but even Muslims are taught to respect and not speak evil against Jesus. Still both MUST come to the knowledge of Jesus being their savior, what we refer to as being saved, born again, or Christian.

Let's take a look at the religion side. Genesis 17 says that Abraham asked God to make the covenant through Ishmael. God said he would not but God said he would bless Ishmael with twelve sons (princes) and they would become a great nation (Genesis 17:20). This is equal to Issac who also had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Judah. Now the covenant that was given to Abraham was circumcision, and Ishmael was with Abraham when he circumcised everyone in his house (Genesis 17:23). The rest of the Levitical law (jewdaism) came much later beginning with Moses.

So there you have it, there are Jews and there is Jewdaism, Muslims and Islam. One is a race, the other is a religion. They may be common religions of those races but they are still very separate. You wouldn't say all white people are christian would you?


Now the term Arab is a completely different word which encompasses a much larger demographic. It includes a vast number of countries and cultures, just like the term Asian. So it's somewhat ignorant to assume every Arab person follows Islam.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#2
You'll find few to discuss with if you only wish Muslims or Jews to answer you.
 
G

GuitarPraise

Guest
#3
I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Discussion is fine, if you want to argue the facts please have some first hand knowledge of what you are saying. Wikipedia doesn't count.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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meccatochrist.org
#4
First off I don't want this to be a rant of who is right or who is wrong. Understand this is ONLY the beginning. If you want to correct/discredit me please be a Jew or Muslim as I have personal friends on both sides.

Jews and Muslims are unlike any other religion in that they are BOTH a race AND a religion (thats not true about islam its only religion , arab is the race). Let us examine why. Genesis 25 shows us that Abraham had ten male children but it only referrers to two of them as his sons. And here is the great divide, Jews are descendants of Issac and Muslims are descendants of Ishmael(myth)(not all muslims are discentant of ishmael , not even all arabs are from ishmael !). Each side believes they are descendants of the promised child and the other are not(myth). Muslims believe Ishmael was the promise child and the bible teaches us Issac was. Irregardless of who is right and who is wrong, they are both descendants of Abraham. Ironically neither side believes that Jesus was the messiah(myth) (Qurran does recognize Jesus as the massiah Son of mary) but even Muslims are taught to respect and not speak evil against Jesus . Still both MUST come to the knowledge of Jesus being their savior, what we refer to as being saved, born again, or Christian.

Let's take a look at the religion side. Genesis 17 says that Abraham asked God to make the covenant through Ishmael. God said he would not but God said he would bless Ishmael with twelve sons (princes) and they would become a great nation (Genesis 17:20). This is equal to Issac who also had twelve sons which became the twelve tribes of Judah. Now the covenant that was given to Abraham was circumcision, and Ishmael was with Abraham when he circumcised everyone in his house (Genesis 17:23). The rest of the Levitical law (jewdaism) came much later beginning with Moses.

So there you have it, there are Jews and there is Jewdaism, Muslims and Islam. One is a race, the other is a religion. They may be common religions of those races but they are still very separate. You wouldn't say all white people are christian would you?


Now the term Arab is a completely different word which encompasses a much larger demographic. It includes a vast number of countries and cultures, just like the term Asian. So it's somewhat ignorant to assume every Arab person follows Islam.
brother you have misconception about Islam and Muslims and Arabs.
 
G

GuitarPraise

Guest
#5
Thanks for the comment Azizi. My terminology may not be perfect. There is a race that are descendants for Ishmael, call them Ishmaelites if you like. It is my understanding that through this people is where Muslim/Islam originated but long after the days of Abraham. My only goal was to separate the two which you seem to agree with? In America we have been taught for a long time that all Arabs are Muslim and so they are our born enemy as well as God's. I believe that is partially propaganda.

I wasn't saying that all present day Muslims/Arabs are descendants of Ishmael, I know that is not true. Just like the Jews there has always been conversion and mixing of races. This has always been frowned upon by the Jews, I don't know how that is viewed by Arabs.

Muslims do not believe Jesus is their savior or that he is God. They believe he is a prophet.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#6
Muslims believe Ishmael was the promise child and the bible teaches us Issac was.
The Koran also teaches that the Promise was through Isaac, same as its source, the Holy Bible.

It is only Islamic ignorance which changes this...




Ironically neither side believes that Jesus was the messiah but even Muslims are taught to respect and not speak evil against Jesus.
Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah....after all, it is stated plainly in their Koran...
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#7
I think you need to work on your reading comprehension. Discussion is fine, if you want to argue the facts please have some first hand knowledge of what you are saying. Wikipedia doesn't count.
Well dont we think a lot of ourselves?!

If you want to correct/discredit me please be a Jew or Muslim as I have personal friends on both sides.

So ya Im not as stupid as you seem to think.As I said not a whole lot of Jews and Muslims here on a CHRISTIAN website to discredit you.So it might be nice if you drop the sanctimonious attitude.
 
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GuitarPraise

Guest
#8
Kayla, I was only trying to prevent the 90% of people that just reply to post with hateful nonsense without having any knowledge of what they are replying to. I don't think highly of myself I think quite poorly of this forums. It holds the largest collection of hateful people of all the forums I have ever been on. No matter what someone starts there will be someone to come in and disagree and find a way to start an argument.


Bowman, help me out man, the post is not that long yet. Read through the discussion before replying. I already addressed that Muslims do not believe Jesus is the son of God or that he died for their sins. They may use the word messiah but it obviously doesn't have the same meaning. Otherwise they would be Christian right? I can't update the the first post, I suppose it should say "Neither religion believes Jesus is their savior".
 
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didymos

Guest
#9
Ignorant nonsense or intelligent trolling.

 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#10
Kayla, I was only trying to prevent the 90% of people that just reply to post with hateful nonsense without having any knowledge of what they are replying to. I don't think highly of myself I think quite poorly of this forums. It holds the largest collection of hateful people of all the forums I have ever been on. No matter what someone starts there will be someone to come in and disagree and find a way to start an argument.


Bowman, help me out man, the post is not that long yet. Read through the discussion before replying. I already addressed that Muslims do not believe Jesus is the son of God or that he died for their sins. They may use the word messiah but it obviously doesn't have the same meaning. Otherwise they would be Christian right? I can't update the the first post, I suppose it should say "Neither religion believes Jesus is their savior".


Thanks for PMing me.We're all good. :) I understand what you're getting at.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#11
So there you have it, One is a race, the other is a religion.
Not necessarily, saying 'race' you imply 'races' there is no such thing as 'races' the Bible doesn't even use 'race' it simply states nation, people or tongue, in actual fact there is only one 'human race' with variation within mankind, and obviously many different religious organizations.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#12
Not necessarily, saying 'race' you imply 'races' there is no such thing as 'races' the Bible doesn't even use 'race' it simply states nation, people or tongue, in actual fact there is only one 'human race' with variation within mankind, and obviously many different religious organizations.
Kedge,

Ummmm... you seem to know a lot about the bible, and have a lot of opinions, for somebody who claims not to have any opinions and is only here "looking for answers".
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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#13
Not necessarily, saying 'race' you imply 'races' there is no such thing as 'races' the Bible doesn't even use 'race' it simply states nation, people or tongue, in actual fact there is only one 'human race' with variation within mankind, and obviously many different religious organizations.
It is only in later days that the race concept has been questioned. And that basically on political grounds (those in the antropological field who question it are usually cultural marxists, favoring the term as being but a mere social construct). Otherwise, genetical factors or differences within a species would do as an explanation. There are still plenty of scientific research that proves genetical differences between populations.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#14
Kedge,

Ummmm... you seem to know a lot about the bible, and have a lot of opinions, for somebody who claims not to have any opinions and is only here "looking for answers".
You stated i have no opinions not me so get facts straight please, i don't know everything i know nothing i assume just like evryone else, i can only search and research what the truth really is, i have opinions and i make no claim i don't, i came here to research on things related to the Bible and those that profess they are Christian. Yeah i have questions that come up into my mind and i try to find out the truth, my search continues.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#15
Muslims do not believe Jesus is their savior or that he is God. They believe he is a prophet.
Some muslims i spoke to a while ago say they believe the same God as the Christian, the abrahamic God.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#16







Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah....after all, it is stated plainly in their Koran...
There obviously must be different kinds of muslim belief systems, because i can claerly remember a muslim i spoke with saying they believe that Jesus Christ was just a prophet but not the Son of God, they always say Jesus (peace be upon Him), they say that muhammad was the last prophet to speak with the Abrahamic God or something like that.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#17
There obviously must be different kinds of muslim belief systems, because i can claerly remember a muslim i spoke with saying they believe that Jesus Christ was just a prophet but not the Son of God, they always say Jesus (peace be upon Him), they say that muhammad was the last prophet to speak with the Abrahamic God or something like that.
Muslims can only parrot what islam tells them...they don't know what, or why, they believe anything...
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#18
Muslims can only parrot what islam tells them...they don't know what, or why, they believe anything...
Christians can only assume their place by their own interpretation of scripture, if it was all smooth sailing for christianity then why the division?.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#19
Christians can only assume their place by their own interpretation of scripture, if it was all smooth sailing for christianity then why the division?.
There is no assumption involved for those that study scripture...
 
Mar 20, 2015
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#20
There is no assumption involved for those that study scripture...
Anyone can study scripture, anyone can make of it what they want to, i'm not saying that is right to do that, that doesn't make anything "the truth".