Jews are Going Home,Signs of the Times are Everywhere

[JesusistheChrist]

Please save your time.I simply dont believe your way of viewing Scripture.The Jews are still Gods chosen and I dont know how anyone who reads Romans 11 can argue that point.But please dont go to the bother on my behalf,it wont change my mind.

I wasn't posting simply for your potential benefit, but also for the potential benefit of others and I'll continue to do so as the Lord directs me to. Again, the Jews were NEVER "God's chosen people" in the manner in which you erroneously believe them to be. They were "chosen" to represent the True Israel, Jesus Christ, and, for the most part, they failed miserably at the same as their own history documents. Why do you suppose that out of the original 603,550 Israelite men who were 20 years old and upward only two of them, Joshua and Caleb, ever stepped foot into "the promised land" while the rest were OVERTHROWN BY GOD IN HIS WRATH? The answer is actually quite simple, kaylagrl, even if you don't like it. Joshua and Caleb were the only two who "wholly followed the LORD" or who "wholly followed Christ" Who was the Rock that followed the children of Israel during their wilderness journeys. Yes, when God made promises to Abraham and his "seed", that SINGULAR SEED WAS JESUS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16). As such, seeing how Joshua and Caleb were the only two who actually followed/obeyed said "seed", they were the only two who stepped foot within "the promised land".

Anyhow, you can harden your heart and close your mind to God's Word all that you'd like to, but you'll only be harming yourself in the process. Again, you're focused on the wrong Israel and the wrong Jerusalem and such could prove deadly...especially for any Jews whom you might witness to with your presently held erroneous beliefs.

 

[Sophia]

I wasn't posting simply for your potential benefit, but also for the potential benefit of others and I'll continue to do so as the Lord directs me to. Again, the Jews were NEVER "God's chosen people" in the manner in which you erroneously believe them to be. They were "chosen" to represent the True Israel, Jesus Christ, and, for the most part, they failed miserably at the same as their own history documents. Why do you suppose that out of the original 603,550 Israelite men who were 20 years old and upward only two of them, Joshua and Caleb, ever stepped foot into "the promised land" while the rest were OVERTHROWN BY GOD IN HIS WRATH? The answer is actually quite simple, kaylagrl, even if you don't like it. Joshua and Caleb were the only two who "wholly followed the LORD" or who "wholly followed Christ" Who was the Rock that followed the children of Israel during their wilderness journeys. Yes, when God made promises to Abraham and his "seed", that SINGULAR SEED WAS JESUS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16). As such, seeing how Joshua and Caleb were the only two who actually followed/obeyed said "seed", they were the only two who stepped foot within "the promised land".

Anyhow, you can harden your heart and close your mind to God's Word all that you'd like to, but you'll only be harming yourself in the process. Again, you're focused on the wrong Israel and the wrong Jerusalem and such could prove deadly...especially for any Jews whom you might witness to with your presently held erroneous beliefs.

Also focusing on wrong Promised Land and wrong k(K)ingdom.

 

[Karraster]

Kaylagrl has a very sweet heart.
jitc you should learn some manners, and get a heart.

 

[crossnote]

Based on your last sentence, I'm pretty sure it was not a misunderstanding. This issue is, that these people are not Israel, nor are they Jews.. and certainly not God's chosen people. Romans 2, Revelation 2 and 3. The Bible tells us who is and isn't a Jew. Don't let the media define words and labels.

Satan will deceive many by such things. He will proclaim this gathering to be the gathering of Israel, when the truth is that this is the gathering of the Synogogue of Satan. Do not be sucked into it.
Do not support the work of Satan,
but accept that it is what it is, and that God's plan works through it, as it does in all things. We don't need to hinder it, but nor do we need to support it, but simply glorify God that He works all these things for His good purpose, and that He told us this would happen.

Do not confuse this physical gathering of fake Jews as being the fulfillment of OT propbecy. That occurs at or after the Return of Christ, NOT BEFORE. Anything beforehand is part of the great deception.

Funny thing, Hitler didn't see them as fake Jews...neither does Hamas or Hezbollah...nor many of the countries that persecuted them down through the centuries. Someone has been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

 

[crossnote]

I agree that we are seeing an influx of Jews back to their land which tells me that there will be coming a major persecution of Jews here in the USA as New York city has nearly as many Jewish people as Israel itself.

 

[Sophia]

Funny thing, Hitler didn't see them as fake Jews...neither does Hamas or Hezbollah...nor many of the countries that persecuted them down through the centuries. Someone has been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

I think you might be tasting your own glass, and thinking it mine.

As a dispensationalist, do you see the restoration of the Promised Land before or after the Return of Christ?
Do you not believe in apostasy before the End?
What do you believe the great deception will be? Will it include Judaism... even to the point of bringing back temple sacrifice?
Do you see a Biblical reference to a mass Israeli revival, or an small group of Israelis (144k) out of the millions there.
Let is assume that "God is not done with the nation of Israel" is a given, as both sides agree on that point. The question is: are the physical promises for THIS dispensation, or reserved until this one is over?

Hitler, as an agent of Satan, certainly is the spark that began (or at least inflamed) the deception, and the current Zionist movement. This is a deception we are talking about. When the son of perdition comes, he will save his people from destruction of groups like Hezbollah, and be hailed a hero by the world (admittedly an assumption based on current events).

Why would Satan war against physical Jews during THIS dispensation? Does he not know Scriptures? Does he not know that God is working through another group? Why would he allow false Christianity to dominate the globe (Catholicism) for centuries, and yet persecute bloodline and converted Jews? Deception.
Which is why he has set his false people as the true, even though Scripture tells us who is TRULY a Jew... and it is not one who practices Judaism.

God will fulfill His Promises to Israel, and to all those who have been engrafted in with them... but not to any who have not been brought back to the Vine. They will remain upon the ground where they have fallen.

The deception is in full swing.
We are called to evangelize, especially to the Jews, but not to have blind support of their politics, religion, and societies.
The whore who killed the prophets should not be praised; only the Husband that she left behind, long before she gave birth to Christ.

Be wary of pop culture Bible interpretation. Kool Aid tastes good.

 

[veryelect]

Interesting,I heard on the news last night that Jews are going back to Israel.The attack in France has frightened many and they expect more Jews to be going back to their homeland.They said this has been the biggest influx of Jews to their homeland since the 60s and because of the attack they expect more. Netanyahu said all Jews are welcome back to Israel.If that isn't a sign of the times I dont know what is.

Bravo to the president for not attending the march in Paris btw.Way to represent there man.Guess there wasnt a golf course close enough.

Does anyone know the current statistics of the religious makeup of Israel?
For example, how many are Pentateuch Old Testament Law, how many are Christian, how many are Babylonian Talmud or the Oral Law that was passed down through the generations?

 

[Sophia]

Another point to remember is this: was being "a Jew" (or any tribe for at matter) hereditary, or by inclusion through circumcision and conversion? Even the children had to be circumcised and instructed in order to be considered a part of the assembly.
If these people have forsaken God, by rejecting His Son, how can they be even considered as Jews? They have converted to paganism, and circumcize the flesh but not the heart.
Are we, those of us who are in Christ, the seed of only Abraham, and not also of Isaac and Jacob(Israel)? We are the seed of Christ, and claim His lineage, through faith, as His lineage was by faith... all the way back to Abraham, and before.

If a person is not in Christ, then they are not in Abraham. If they are not in Abraham, then how can they claim to be of Isaac and Jacob? (the seed of Abraham)

The Restoration of Israel is not for genetic Jews, but for Blood-Bought Children of Abraham (The true bloodline), which will certainly include many genetic Jews.
The "right division" is not Church from Israel, but physical from spiritual. The physical is temporary, while the spiritual is eternal. Don't hold on to the physical so tightly. It is a shadow of what has already come, and what is yet coming.

 

[Sophia]

Does anyone know the current statistics of the religious makeup of Israel?
For example, how many are Pentateuch Old Testament Law, how many are Christian, how many are Babylonian Talmud or the Oral Law that was passed down through the generations?

75.4% Jewish
17.5% Muslim
2% Christian
1.6% Druze
3.7% Other


Of those who claim to be Jewish:
8% are orthodox (Haredim)
11% are religious (non-haredim, practicing)
13% are religious traditionalists (keeping only the commands of Halakha law)
25% are non-religious traditionalists (respecting only the secular aspects of Halakha law)
43% are secular


Demographics of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sophia]

In my hometown, we have a large group of Hasidic Jews. I just found out that they would be considered a subdivision of Haredim.

 

[Jeff_56]

Yes you can pray for leaders but when they are going directly against Gods word I dont think he wants us to be quiet about it or go along with it.Not from what I see in the OT.

It seems with mans knowledge there are always "hairs to split and pieces that don't fit".

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.
Quote...Of course, Jonah would have much preferred GOD'S WRATH TO COME UPON THESE PEOPLE...and that sounds eerily close to some of the heart attitudes here.

If Muslims accept the Lord,wonderful!! I know missionaries that are overseas now trying to win some to the Lord.But to continue to try and accept them as they are sends their souls to hell.You must let them know the truth.That they are in a false and demonic religion.And hey if they want to continue in it I say have at it.But do it in your own country and live at peace with the world.But they cant do that because their Koran tells them to make jihad.Gods wrath will come upon them whether I want it to or not.He wont allow the Muslims to hate and murder his chosen people.If he did that would make him a liar.

mainly, who do you trust? Yahweh, Scripture, by faith/grace in Yahshua(Yahweh's Salvation)
or men ? Yahweh plainly says whoever trusts in men, "I(YahwehtheOnlyCreator) curse"... though He wants to bless, IF there's repentance, with True Truth(from HimHimself) in Yahshua...

speak as Yahweh says to speak, in Yahshua. do as Yahweh's Word says to do, and as Yahweh says to do(HE IS ALIVE!), always in line with all of His Own Word. the leaders of all the nations and religions have gotten in bed(had illicit immoral spiritual sex) with the p..e, for thousand years, and is described thoroughly in Scripture (which is why 'they' say do not read or interpret the Bible yourself, but listen to "us" (as they lie and deceive always).

as to "man's knowledge", as it is written, it is useless, of no profit at all.

it is written, by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and the WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY , not by phdumb, or fatherdodobird - i.e. overcoming the enemy and sin is Yahweh's Way in Jesus(Yahshua),
not man's way, or any other way....

we (ekklesia) are under attack from every quarter all over the world, including throughout the usa, and we(ekklesia) are few everywhere.
the enemy is many, and even in the 'house of God' many traps are laid every day for the man of faith. it is a dangerous world we live in, blind, pernicious, stupid, and senseless; only by sheer grace in Yahweh's Mercy in Yahshua does anyone survive at all.

Overwhelmingly, the gentiles(all the nations) don't even know which gentiles are saved and which ones aren't saved, so how can they 'claim', if they do claim, to know who are Yahweh's chosen people ???
One good point made in one of the posts - it seems/was obvious that hitler, mussolini, russian programs of extermination(pogroms?), and the rcc all made a strong determined effort to WIPE OUT GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE ! ! !
I.E.
the wicked leaders , without consciousness of God or of Truth or of Spiritual Life, ALL came against(and still come against) God's Chosen People,
all over the earth, even in the united states.... so maybe, just maybe, the simple might turn to God and recognize the Truth.

 

[crossnote]

I think you might be tasting your own glass, and thinking it mine.

As a dispensationalist, do you see the restoration of the Promised Land before or after the Return of Christ?
Do you not believe in apostasy before the End?
What do you believe the great deception will be? Will it include Judaism... even to the point of bringing back temple sacrifice?
Do you see a Biblical reference to a mass Israeli revival, or an small group of Israelis (144k) out of the millions there.
Let is assume that "God is not done with the nation of Israel" is a given, as both sides agree on that point. The question is: are the physical promises for THIS dispensation, or reserved until this one is over?

Hitler, as an agent of Satan, certainly is the spark that began (or at least inflamed) the deception, and the current Zionist movement. This is a deception we are talking about. When the son of perdition comes, he will save his people from destruction of groups like Hezbollah, and be hailed a hero by the world (admittedly an assumption based on current events).

Why would Satan war against physical Jews during THIS dispensation? Does he not know Scriptures? Does he not know that God is working through another group? Why would he allow false Christianity to dominate the globe (Catholicism) for centuries, and yet persecute bloodline and converted Jews? Deception.
Which is why he has set his false people as the true, even though Scripture tells us who is TRULY a Jew... and it is not one who practices Judaism.

God will fulfill His Promises to Israel, and to all those who have been engrafted in with them... but not to any who have not been brought back to the Vine. They will remain upon the ground where they have fallen.

The deception is in full swing.
We are called to evangelize, especially to the Jews, but not to have blind support of their politics, religion, and societies.
The whore who killed the prophets should not be praised; only the Husband that she left behind, long before she gave birth to Christ.

Be wary of pop culture Bible interpretation. Kool Aid tastes good.

Well in your post I responded to you called them 'fake Jews', now you say we need to evangelize the Jews. I guess my confusion with what you are saying is "who are the 'fake' Jews and who are the real ones?"

 

[crossnote]

Another point to remember is this: was being "a Jew" (or any tribe for at matter) hereditary, or by inclusion through circumcision and conversion? Even the children had to be circumcised and instructed in order to be considered a part of the assembly.
If these people have forsaken God, by rejecting His Son, how can they be even considered as Jews? They have converted to paganism, and circumcize the flesh but not the heart.
Are we, those of us who are in Christ, the seed of only Abraham, and not also of Isaac and Jacob(Israel)? We are the seed of Christ, and claim His lineage, through faith, as His lineage was by faith... all the way back to Abraham, and before.

If a person is not in Christ, then they are not in Abraham. If they are not in Abraham, then how can they claim to be of Isaac and Jacob? (the seed of Abraham)

The Restoration of Israel is not for genetic Jews, but for Blood-Bought Children of Abraham (The true bloodline), which will certainly include many genetic Jews.
The "right division" is not Church from Israel, but physical from spiritual. The physical is temporary, while the spiritual is eternal. Don't hold on to the physical so tightly. It is a shadow of what has already come, and what is yet coming.

Do you ever read Paul?

Romans 11:1-5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

God has reserved a remnant according to election.

Romans 9:3-5
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

vss. 4-5 are all in the present tense! !

 

[Sophia]

Well in your post I responded to you called them 'fake Jews', now you say we need to evangelize the Jews. I guess my confusion with what you are saying is "who are the 'fake' Jews and who are the real ones?"

The confusion comes from terms being used for different things.
One who is truly a Jew is one who is circumcised in their heart, and converted to Christ.
A fake Jew is one who calls themselves a Jew, but is not, because their circumcision is only skin deep, and their conversion is to a false god. If they worshiped the True God of their forefathers, then they would believe Christ.

Instead, God has raised up children for Abraham from all nations.

Why do we need to evangelize to the false Jews? To bring them to Christ! It says in the Word that, although they are hardened, the Lord accepts (grafts) them back in willingly, and even more easily than the "wild shoot".
They are not false Jews by birth, but false by unbelief.

Just like those who claim Christ, but live in legalism, the unsaved Jews are still under the OC, and condemned by it.
Just like those who claim Christ, but live in lasciviousness, the unsaved Jews who do not follow the commands (quite a number based on the percentages) are displaying who their REAL father is... and it's not God.

I agree that seeing people, who claim to be Jews, gathering to the land of Israel is a sign of the times.
I just don't think it's a "good" thing to support. It isn't furthering the Gospel, having them gather there, or furthering the Kingdom, but furthering the goal of Satan's deception of the world. We should be calling for them to come out of Babylon, not to get more involved in it's construction.

 

[Sophia]

Do you ever read Paul?

Romans 11:1-5
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

God has reserved a remnant according to election.

Romans 9:3-5
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

vss. 4-5 are all in the present tense! !

I agree, but do you think that the remnant (saved genetic Israelites) are Zionists? You should read what they say in their magazines. Why do you think only 2% of Israeli citizens are Christian. (And 70% of that number is Catholic)

Did God cast them all off? No, and I never said anything of the sort. He has kept a remnant, but not the whole. That remnant is the very reason we are called to evangelize to those who call themselves Jews. We are workers in a ripe field.

 

[kaylagrl]

I wasn't posting simply for your potential benefit, but also for the potential benefit of others and I'll continue to do so as the Lord directs me to. Again, the Jews were NEVER "God's chosen people" in the manner in which you erroneously believe them to be. They were "chosen" to represent the True Israel, Jesus Christ, and, for the most part, they failed miserably at the same as their own history documents. Why do you suppose that out of the original 603,550 Israelite men who were 20 years old and upward only two of them, Joshua and Caleb, ever stepped foot into "the promised land" while the rest were OVERTHROWN BY GOD IN HIS WRATH? The answer is actually quite simple, kaylagrl, even if you don't like it. Joshua and Caleb were the only two who "wholly followed the LORD" or who "wholly followed Christ" Who was the Rock that followed the children of Israel during their wilderness journeys. Yes, when God made promises to Abraham and his "seed", that SINGULAR SEED WAS JESUS CHRIST (Galatians 3:16). As such, seeing how Joshua and Caleb were the only two who actually followed/obeyed said "seed", they were the only two who stepped foot within "the promised land".

Anyhow, you can harden your heart and close your mind to God's Word all that you'd like to, but you'll only be harming yourself in the process. Again, you're focused on the wrong Israel and the wrong Jerusalem and such could prove deadly...especially for any Jews whom you might witness to with your presently held erroneous beliefs.

Quote ...The Jews are NOT God's "chosen people" in the manner in which you apparently believe them to be and I'll prove as much to you, FROM SCRIPTURE, before this weekend is through (God willing, of course).

I assumed from this quote that you were speaking to me therefore I said don't bother trying to prove it to me,or for my sake because I disagree and believe the Jews are Gods chosen according to what Romans 11. I never forbade you from doing what you feel the Lord wants or sharing what you believe.I specifically said "dont do it for my benefit." What you say is none of my business,if I disagree I say so.Where you got that I was trying to stop you from doing the Lords work is beyond me.

 

[Sophia]

Quote ...The Jews are NOT God's "chosen people" in the manner in which you apparently believe them to be and I'll prove as much to you, FROM SCRIPTURE, before this weekend is through (God willing, of course).

I assumed from this quote that you were speaking to me therefore I said don't bother trying to prove it to me,or for my sake because I disagree and believe the Jews are Gods chosen according to what Romans 11. I never forbade you from doing what you feel the Lord wants or sharing what you believe.I specifically said "dont do it for my benefit." What you say is none of my business,if I disagree I say so.Where you got that I was trying to stop you from doing the Lords work is beyond me.

Romans 11 proves a remnant is chosen out of Israel for salvation, but does not prove (in fact refutes) the whole of Israel being considered God's Chosen People during this dispensation.

 

[jahsoul]

Read Romans 11 I believe God will restore them.They will repent and be saved.

I knew I'm a couple days late but this isn't scripture.

23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

Restoration comes after belief and not before, unless I read your post wrong. If I did, carry on.

 

[jahsoul]

the Jews are Yahweh's chosen people.

it is written, Yahweh entrusted Scripture to the Jews, (and 'most all' gentiles in the usa (maybe whole world, but i live in the usa) haven't got even basic understanding that Jewish believers have, even in Jesus).

it is written, Yahweh brought salvation to the world through the Jews, and so it is.

they are being gathered together by Yahweh. He entreated them gently at first, and they wouldn't leave their 'comfortable' lives in other countries; so He sent more devastating persuasion, and they willingly began returning...... their restoration will mean LIFE to the world, more than the world has seen since the first 143 years after Yahshua walked the planet earth in person....

Yahweh spoke, for His people:
it is written (and remains forever unchanged and unchangeable) whoever blesses you, I will bless, and whoever seeks to hurt you, I curse, declares Yahweh the One and Only Creator.

Please save your time.I simply dont believe your way of viewing Scripture.The Jews are still Gods chosen and I dont know how anyone who reads Romans 11 can argue that point.But please dont go to the bother on my behalf,it wont change my mind.

Actually, scripture doesn't say that Jews are chosen people. Scripture always refers to the House or Children of Israel, which is not synonymous with Jew. *scripture backs this up*

Also, Paul doesn't once use the word Jew in Romans 11 (you can check any translation to verify). Paul specifically speaks of the Children of Israel, which Paul identifies himself as. (in reading Romans 11, Paul gives his genealogy at the beginning of the scripture).

In Scripture, Jew is usually referred to someone who is of the Tribe of Judah, someone who was an inhabitant of the Kingdom of Judah, or one who practiced the religion. If this is the case, it would be impossible for all of the Tribes of Israel to be considered Jews. *shrugs*

 

[Sophia]

Actually, scripture doesn't say that Jews are chosen people. Scripture always refers to the House or Children of Israel, which is not synonymous with Jew. *scripture backs this up*

Also, Paul doesn't once use the word Jew in Romans 11 (you can check any translation to verify). Paul specifically speaks of the Children of Israel, which Paul identifies himself as. (in reading Romans 11, Paul gives his genealogy at the beginning of the scripture).

In Scripture, Jew is usually referred to someone who is of the Tribe of Judah, someone who was an inhabitant of the Kingdom of Judah, or one who practiced the religion. If this is the case, it would be impossible for all of the Tribes of Israel to be considered Jews. *shrugs*

Good things to remember. It is hard to break terminology habits though.
Modern speech uses the term "Jew" to label anyone born of a parent who considered themselves Jewish, and of anyone who converts to Judaism.