Jews

[Flamingspirit]

Again I ask do people view heaven in which we would have to pay rent and work for heavenly money to buy what we need? What would happen if someone were not to have the money? Are they evicted from heaven by landlord God?

NO, of course not! So let us also WALK in that image of heaven we hope for!

 

[Kerry]

24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Could we possibly get back on the OP topic out of respect for the Sister that started this thread question?

Maybe start another thread on paying or not paying taxes?

That is the problem you have today. The same threads regurgitated day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year!

Lets talk about something worthy of us Christians to endeavor upon, like ending poverty, homelessness and injustice everywhere. Let us talk about ending our servitude to our masters the lenders!

 

[ChristIsGod]

Oy Vey! Who schtarted this tax rabbit trail?

Don't pay your taxes and we'll visit you in prison, as Jesus said we should, in order to be a sheep and not a goat.

Or just wait until the "world tax" comes into affect - then we'll all be in jail by then but for different reasons.

 

[GuessWho]

I am going off daniels prophesies.

In his prophesies the 4th beast destroy the 3rd. We know this to be the roman empire, who destroyed the grecian empire.

They were also gentile nations, not jewish.

Jesus Christ also used Daniel prophecies and said that people must flee from Judea. Why?
I read and re-read Christ prophecies about the destruction of the temple and the end of times (in each gospel) and I don't see Him talking about Romans fighting the Greeks. Rather, He talks about Jerusalem ("Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you..."), then He talks about the destruction of the Temple and the end of times, then He narrates the parables about the kingdom, and then He predicts His death. And right after He predicts His death, the Pharisees plan to kill Him. Where do the Romans and the Greeks fit in this picture?

 

[JimmieD]

Oy Vey! Who schtarted this tax rabbit trail?

Don't pay your taxes and we'll visit you in prison, as Jesus said we should, in order to be a sheep and not a goat.

This is an interesting comment. Do you think Jesus indicated that his followers should pay taxes?

 

[Kerry]

Read 2 Samuel as God promises that they will pay taxes.

 

[Flamingspirit]

24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

So I ask as Christ did, of whom does the kings of the earth take custom or tribute from? Peter replied that they get their money from STRANGERS!

The children of these kings pay NOTHING! Why? Because it's their kingdom! But Christ has risen and sits on the right hand of the most High now. So now who's kingdom is it now!?

I am but a small voice of that mighty angel proclaiming the fall the babylon!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus Christ also used Daniel prophecies and said that people must flee from Judea. Why?
I read and re-read Christ prophecies about the destruction of the temple and the end of times (in each gospel) and I don't see Him talking about Romans fighting the Greeks. Rather, He talks about Jerusalem ("Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you..."), then He talks about the destruction of the Temple, then He narrates the parables about the kingdom, and then He predicts His death. And right after He predicts His death, the Pharisees plan to kill Him. Where do the Romans and the Greeks fit in this picture?

let me help you..

Dan 2: 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others

Dan 7: 7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.

Nothing about ciaphis and Israel here

 

[Flamingspirit]

Read 2 Samuel as God promises that they will pay taxes.

I'd discussed this in a previous thread of mine. How God described the king who would rule over us bad that he will demand a tenth of everything. How this came to pass in our time as "possession is nine-tenths of the law." This means that your person, house, car, etc. all though in your possession, you only hold nine-tenths of it. The other tenth is what the king demanded, THAT BEING THE TITLE! You own a car? Don't pay insurance or pay for plates and see if it's really yours. You dropped $200,000 for a house and you own it now? Ok. Lol. Don't pay your "property taxes" and see what that $200,000 got you.

 

[GuessWho]

Nothing about ciaphis and Israel here

You made me smile. Of course there is nothing about Caiaphas and Israel in Daniel's vision/prophecy. It is Christ who take this prophesy and re-interpret it.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a]spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Why must those in Judea flee to the mountains? It is implied that a cataclysm will happen there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You made me smile. Of course there is nothing about Caiaphas and Israel in Daniel's vision/prophecy. It is Christ who take this prophesy and re-interpret it.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a]spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Why must those in Judea flee to the mountains? It is implied that a cataclysm will happen there.

Re-interpret it? Jesus did not re-interpret it. He told us what will happen.

Isreal will be back in its land, The temple will be rebuilt. And this world leader (beast will enter the temple. and speak pompous words. and abominate the inner sanctum,) As the prophesy of daniel says.

It is a warning for jews to run to the mountains, Because God promised to protect them.

 

[GuessWho]

Re-interpret it? Jesus did not re-interpret it. He told us what will happen.

Isreal will be back in its land, The temple will be rebuilt. And this world leader (beast will enter the temple. and speak pompous words. and abominate the inner sanctum,) As the prophesy of daniel says.

It is a warning for jews to run to the mountains, Because God promised to protect them.

Yeees! You begin to understand what I am trying to say. Maybe "re-interpret" wasn't the best word to use. Christ interpreted Daniel's prophesy as applying to Him (the true Israel, or the true representative of Israel, the king of Zion) on one hand and the Pharisees on the other hand. It is them who defiled the temple, not the romans, not the gentiles. It is them the abominate beast!

That's why they planned to kill Him. That's why they preferred Barabas (an insurgent and murderer) over Him. Because no one, before Christ, dared to say that the temple is being defiled by the Pharisees (who based their entire ideology on temple and law). Christ implied that He is the true temple and that only Him can rebuilt it.

Anyway, that's how I read it. And it makes a lot of sense to me.

Also, Christ prophesied that a great destruction will come over Jerusalem. A punishment (because of their rejection of Him as Messiah).

 

[Matt1626]

Who are those who say they are Jews and are not?

I know a lot of Jewish people so according to them

for you to be Jewish by birth our mother must have been Jewish not required for the father

for a reformed Jew this would be the only requirement

For a conservative or Orthodox Jew for one to be Jewish you would have to be born Jewish and ad hear to the law which would vary depending how you are talking to. In the most extreme case it would be following all 613 lavitical commandments

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeees! You begin to understand what I am trying to say. Maybe "re-interpret" wasn't the best word to use. Christ interpreted Daniel's prophesy as applying to Him (the true Israel, or the true representative of Israel, the king of Zion) on one hand and the Pharisees on the other hand. It is them who defiled the temple, not the romans, not the gentiles. It is them the abominate beast!

The world leader of the final empire will abominate the temple. And declare himself to be the messiah. Not sure where you are getting what you say, it does not fit the prophesy.

And yes, it will be the romans, The prince who is to come, whose people destroyed the city and sanctuary, will break a covenant with the people half way through, by commiting the abomination.

That's why they planned to kill Him. That's why they preferred Barabas (an insurgent and murderer) over Him. Because no one, before Christ, dared to say that the temple is being defiled by the Pharisees (who based their entire ideology on temple and law). Christ implied that He is the true temple and that only Him can rebuilt it.

They killed him because he rejected their authority and power. and were not what they wanted him to be.

Anyway, that's how I read it. And it makes a lot of sense to me.

Thats fine, But I can not destroy prophesy like that, If prophesy does not happen the way it is prophesied, God himself said it is from a false prophet and should not be listened to.

Also, Christ prophesied that a great destruction will come over Jerusalem. A punishment (because of their rejection of Him as Messiah).

Yep. That destruction before the tribulation.

 

[GuessWho]

The world leader of the final empire will abominate the temple. And declare himself to be the messiah. Not sure where you are getting what you say, it does not fit the prophesy.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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What temple? Christ re-built the temple: is the christian church. We are to be temples of God, now.
Also, Christ said that all those things would happen soon (in his generation).

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[/FONT]And yes, it will be the romans, The prince who is to come, whose people destroyed the city and sanctuary, will break a covenant with the people half way through, by commiting the abomination. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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What abomination? What abomination is greater than that of killing Jesus Christ?
And how do you know it will be the romans? Romans no longer exist today.

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[/FONT]They killed him because he rejected their authority and power. and were not what they wanted him to be. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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Really? The Pharisees accused Christ for rejecting their power and Pilates agreed to crucify Him, just like that?

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[/FONT]Thats fine, But I can not destroy prophesy like that, If prophesy does not happen the way it is prophesied, God himself said it is from a false prophet and should not be listened to. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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What do you mean? You expect four literal beasts to emerge from the sea? Is this what you expect?
Was Christ a false prophet then?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/FONT]
What temple? Christ re-built the temple: is the christian church. We are to be temples of God, now.

So the final beast is going to enter the body of a believer and obominate it? do you realise who that sounds?

Also, Christ said that all those things would happen soon (in his generation).

He was answering the question.

What are the signs of your comming, and the end of the age. He said the abomination starts that time.

What abomination? What abomination is greater than that of killing Jesus Christ?

lol. Wow. Jesus meantions this abomination. and it was not his death. so you tell me what Jesus was talking about.

And how do you know it will be the romans? Romans no longer exist today.

Because Daniel said it would be the final beast, the final beast is rome.

Really? The Pharisees accused Christ for rejecting their power and Pilates agreed to crucify Him, just like that?

Father forgive them, they know not what they do

What do you mean? You expect four literal beasts to emerge from the sea? Is this what you expect?
Was Christ a false prophet then?

lol. Sis. I love ya, but you need to study more. If you have a question ask it. But making accusations like this is not helping you. Who ever said 4 beasts will come out of the sea?

 

[Straightshot]

This debate above is a wild one .... much bias to unravel

The believer is a temple of the Lord's holy spirit .... but the Lord has more .... one currently in heaven, one to be placed upon the earth for His coming millennial rule, and an eternal temple next

There will be no tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount during the period

Satan's beast will sit in the temple of "his" god .... it is already there today

And this one will not claim to be Jesus Christ, but will blaspheme Him to His face .... this one is "against" the Son of God

Neither will he make some sort of "peace" agreement with Israel .... he will be Israel's enemy from the get go

That's all for now

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This debate above is a wild one .... much bias to unravel

The believer is a temple of the Lord's holy spirit .... but the Lord has more .... one currently in heaven, one to be placed upon the earth for His coming millennial rule, and an eternal temple next

There will be no tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount during the period

Satan's beast will sit in the temple of "his" god .... it is already there today

And this one will not claim to be Jesus Christ, but will blaspheme Him to His face .... this one is "against" the Son of God

Neither will he make some sort of "peace" agreement with Israel ..., he will be Israel's enemy from the get go

That's all for now

this is unfounded.

The abomination which makes desolate can only happen in the jewish temple. Otherwise we can not SEE IT. and the warning is useless.

 

[Straightshot]

One more thing

It will be those in Israel that will see the abomination of desolation at the middle of the 70th week decreed for the nation .... and those that believe will flee into the Jordanian wilderness for 1260 days of protection [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12:6; 12:14]

Today's true church will not flee, but will see the tribulation period from the state of immortality

The believing remnant of Israel will flee ..... from the abomination of desolation .... Satan's beast

Useless instruction from the Lord?

I do not think so ..... this event will trigger the remnant to escape him for their own protection ... this has nothing to do with today's church

Unless you are an unbelieving "Jew" today that turns to the Lord during the tribulation period and living in Israel who will flee .... this has no bearing upon you whatsoever

No peace treaty and no temple on the mount of the Lord's during the tribulation period

It is the Lord who confirms the covenant with Israel in Daniel 9, not the beast

And the Muslim temple is already on the mount