Job 1:6, Job 2:2, and Omniscience

[Grandpa]

yes but don't you think, this sentiment is present in the account?

you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, ​

in order to bring it about as it is this day​

(Genesis 50:20)​

​

is that what's meant here -

Behold, God works all these things,​

twice, in fact, three times with a man,​

to bring back his soul from the pit,​

that he may be enlightened with the light of life. ​

(Job 33:29-30) ​

​

​

- that suffering is not for God's children punitive, at least not always, but purifying, maturing: like Hebrews 2:10 and Romans 8:28 harmonized, and in that sense, Job's story isn't tragic, but demonstrative, and salvific? and in the end, after all, he was blessed more than the blessing with which he was blessed in the beginning.
i think Satan meant this for Job's evil, but God meant it for good

I see what you are saying.

The world would consider Jobs story a tragedy.

But how can we, who are Christians, call someones story a tragedy if it brings them to Christ and Salvation?


Kind of like that song lyric, God Blessed the broken road that led me straight to you. (You being the Lord Jesus)

 

[posthuman]

I see what you are saying.

The world would consider Jobs story a tragedy.

But how can we, who are Christians, call someones story a tragedy if it brings them to Christ and Salvation?


Kind of like that song lyric, God Blessed the broken road that led me straight to you. (You being the Lord Jesus)

i think Job nailed it at the beginning --

he fell to the ground and worshiped, and he said:​

“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,​

and naked shall I return there.​

the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away;​

blessed be the name of the LORD!”​

In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.​

(Job 1:20-22)​

​

​

& i think that this is what i should do likewise, when something seems tragic to me in my present time in this present life - and pray for the patience and insight to do so always
i should have faith; God will work all things for good, to the praise of His name

 

[Sipsey]

Here is a summation from a Mr. Kukis, a fellow that has spent many years in the Hebrew Scriptures doing some serious exegesis. See if this fits your opinion as to the why you inquire of;

So, here is the key to understanding the book of Job: what is said throughout the book of Job is essentially accurate; Job’s friends know what is right and wrong, and they state these things, and they suggest that Job is suffering because he has done this or that sin. It is true, that what they speak of are sins; and when they speak of God’s character and what He does, that is also true. However, apart from all of that, there is the invisible conflict that goes on (Job 1–2), and sometimes God allows evil tings to happen to good people in order to show His character to both fallen and elect angels. This is exactly what God is doing with Job. So, what is being said and discussed is essentially correct doctrine. His friends are not way out of line to suggest these things. However, Job knows that these things that they say—sins that they impute to him—do not really apply to him, and so he answers their each and every question or objection.

Therefore, even though these friends of Job’s do understand what is good and true, they seem to be unaware of the invisible conflict, and that is key to much of the evil in the world. This is why we are introduced to Satan in the first two chapters and in these, we learn all the evil he wants to inflict on us.

 

[posthuman]

I think God was punishing Satan by sending him to a man of faith.

Would hat necessarily be punitive?
When Gid sends us to people of faith, it's not to punish us, but to provoke us to repent and be restored, or that in some way their faith may add to us a good thing.

Does Gid mean to do good to His enemies?

 

[oldethennew]

the Command to 'walk to and fro', in the earth is given several times in the scriptures -
ZEC. 1:11.
And they answered the angel of The LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said,
We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sits still, and is at rest.
ZEC. 4:10.
For who has despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet
in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; 'they are the eyes of The LORD', which run to and fro through the whole earth.
it appears, in the Book of Job, that satan has also done this 'command' -
he may be answering begrudgingly, BUT, he has done it, for he has NOT been cast-out, 'yet'!!!
it is commonly taught in traditional Christianity, that there is, 'a very GREAT CONTEST going on,
between God and satan = this is a very great 'falsehood', for this would be putting satan on an 'equal plane'
with our Heavenly Father...
just a rough estimate here = God The Father can never/ever be even in the same nano second/identified with
the 'un-holiness' of the filth/ infected-ness of the 'darkness' that prevails in our world today...
our daily HOPE/PRAYER is, that no matter the 'trial and tribulation', that we may be able to withstand the wiles of the devil'...
'For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and the rulers of the 'darkness of this world'..........

 

[AndyMaleh]

Would hat necessarily be punitive?
When Gid sends us to people of faith, it's not to punish us, but to provoke us to repent and be restored, or that in some way their faith may add to us a good thing.

Does Gid mean to do good to His enemies?

Posthuman, you're scaring me right now... are you affected by the Devil? You kept calling God, Gid ! Kinda like Bible folks who worshipped Gad, which was not a true god.

Also, you flipped all my words upside down, just like the Devil and his followers would.

"When Gid sends us to people of faith"

See, that's the opposite of what I said, which was about God (not Gid) sending a man of faith to Satan (not us). If I were in your position, I would have happily appreciated that someone said something against Satan for God instead of saying something that sounds like you think I'm not on your side. If I am a man of God, you have to accept me by the way or else you would be rejecting God for rejecting one of his children and thus go to Hell for it. You don't have a choice to reject anyone in the Kingdom of God. People who have done things like that did so only outside of the Kingdom of God.

I am shivering now... but thanks be to God, I am no longer afraid.

Posthuman... do you strive to obey God 100% in your life? (I am asking if you strive to do so not if you did.. i realize everyone falls short of the glory of God, but everyone who follows God strives 100% to obey God since God asked us to be perfect like him). I have to test your spirit before I could chat with you any further. There have been a lot of reprobates, sanctioned trolls, liars who try to weaken others' faith, mockers who don't respect God's people, and masqueraded homosexuality practitioners who were trying to steal sexual energy from others on these forums to use in homosexual acts. Moderators haven't been doing a good job of moderating the forums at all to protect us from them (if I were a moderator, I'm sure I would do a 100x better job easily, which leads me to think some moderators are reprobates too). I need to protect myself and others from them by withholding all contact from them. Which is why I'm testing your spirit. Anyone who does not answer me (or other people of faith) "yes." to that question is not for God and must be avoided by all people of faith no matter what they say and how they try to defend themselves.

"Does Gid mean to do good to His enemies?"

God created everything, so he doesn't have enemies. He is the all powerful omnipotent omnipresent creator. Everything that happens on earth is a petty concern for him. He gave life to everyone, so whether they obey or not is only for their benefit, not for God's. God does not need our prayers and obedience. He wants them because it is his will, not because he needs them like some Satan reprobates think or make hollywood movies about. To think that God truly has enemies is very kidish and childish. Anyone who thinks that doesn't truly believe in God because if they did they would understand the truth. But, some Satan reprobates who wanted to steal the energy of God's children tried to spin the story that way to keep them in the dark. Fortunately, all people who truly believe in God end up getting the truth directly from him and break out of the chains of elder reprobates realizing they have no authority over anyone since all authority comes from God.

Godspeed.

 

[posthuman]

Posthuman, you're scaring me right now... are you affected by the Devil? You kept calling God, Gid ! Kinda like Bible folks who worshipped Gad, which was not a true god.

no idea why my phone autocorrected to that; sorry

 

[posthuman]

God created everything, so he doesn't have enemies.

au contraire --

Make a joyful shout to God, all the earth!​

Sing out the honor of His name; make His praise glorious.​

Say to God,​

“How awesome are Your works!​

Through the greatness of Your power Your enemies shall submit themselves to You.​

All the earth shall worship You and sing praises to You; ​

they shall sing praises to Your name.” ​

Selah
(Psalm 66"1-4)​

 

[posthuman]

See, that's the opposite of what I said

you said "punish" -- that is exactly, "punitive"

i am just asking, since the LORD commanded that you love your enemies, and do good to them, is it not natural to think that He does the same to His own enemies? that the good God does good.

is "punish" good? compared to "seek to reform" or "offer to save" or "edify" ?
how does asking Satan where he has been and asking him if he has considered Job constitute "punishment" ?

i asked why omniscient God asks The Adversary a question, and you said you think, in order to punish him.
i asked if pointing to a portrayal of righteousness is necessarily understood as 'punishing' or if there is a more plausible explanation.
sorry you got hung up on a typo.

 

[posthuman]

to steal the energy of God's children

"the energy of God's children"

what is that? & it can be "stolen" ?

 

[oyster67]

twice in the opening scenes of the book of Job, the Sons of God are presenting themselves before Him, "and Satan also" among them
God asks him, "from where do you come?"

taking two things for granted, axiomatically:

• this is not an idle question
• God isn't asking because He doesn't know

there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?

does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?

God uses this as an opportunity to teach us about the way things are between Himself, Satan, and You and I.

1. God allows Satan to walk the Earth.
2. Satan can do a limited number of things if given permission.
3. God can use any means He so chooses to mold and shape us.
4. God will never push us beyond what we can take as individuals.

Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

A good theme for Job? How about "God is just and we don't have to have all the answers right now. Just trust."
Remember Abraham as he climbed that mountain with his son.

 

[oyster67]

you said "punish" -- that is exactly, "punitive"

i am just asking, since the LORD commanded that you love your enemies, and do good to them, is it not natural to think that He does the same to His own enemies? that the good God does good.

is "punish" good? compared to "seek to reform" or "offer to save" or "edify" ?
how does asking Satan where he has been and asking him if he has considered Job constitute "punishment" ?

i asked why omniscient God asks The Adversary a question, and you said you think, in order to punish him.
i asked if pointing to a portrayal of righteousness is necessarily understood as 'punishing' or if there is a more plausible explanation.
sorry you got hung up on a typo.

Punishment and Pruning are definitely different concepts.