In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. Job 1:22
(Some claim the opposite what the Holy Spirit says.)
(Some claim the opposite what the Holy Spirit says.)
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"Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me, which I did not know."
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."
according to God Job even after this was considered to not have spoken incorrectly.
ignorance is different than sinning. Knoweldge is required in order to be accounted as sin.
for instance, you have twin 5 year olds, a box of crayons. one you take aside and tell them " do not write on the wall with these crayons" this one writes on the wall after He knows what you have said.
the other you give the crayons, and say nothing of writing on the wall, this one writes on the wall....i ask you
Which is guilty and which is innocent?
In fact it was Job who triggered the event....Look...Job said "Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me." Fear, being the opposite of faith, or faith corrupted is sin...Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Job, if he was in fear, spoke his fear and that triggered the event. His words of fear
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Ariel82
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NoNameMcgee
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Ariel82
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Both are guilty of writing on the wall and both with be corrected/ chastens....
Why do folks think punishment instead of a teaching moment when you fall into sin?
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Ariel82
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hahahaha
hey ariel
Hi Mcgee, haven't been on much today.
Making my daughter a Phoenix Xmen custome...harder than it sounds.. Lol.
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NoNameMcgee
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sounds hard
o_o
lol
i wouldnt know where to start
kudos to you for bein so thoughtfull
hope your daughter appreciates it
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Ariel82
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That is extreme Word of Faith doctrine...that your words are like magic and make things happen.
It's not Biblical.
You can't pull verses out of context and make them say whatever you feel like.
Hi message, Your comments about Elihu are totally without scriptural backing and come from the mind of J. Swaggart. Hey, I have his commentary, he is right about a lot of things, however he has this terrible practice of writing himself into scripture. What I mean is that he will place his opinion on equal footing with scripture and teach that opinion as if it were scripture. The negative things he says about Elihu that are not found in the bible is an example.
Ya You would see it that way...Nonetheless your words do have the power to help you or to hinder you....Your belief or lack thereof is not even relevant....Just like gravity, you can deny its existence then jump off the house or.....
and the verse was not out of context
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NoNameMcgee
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every man sinned at somepoint other than Jesus
i think the debate is over if he sinned during the book of Job
i think the debate is over if he sinned during the book of Job
Hey Den, Job did not in any way cause what happened to him to occur, first God said he was the most righteous man on earth, second God said to Satan about Job, you moved Me against him WITHOUT CAUSE. WOF folks hijacked this story to use in their teaching of prosperity and name it and claim it, however they had to rewrite most of the story in order to get it to conform. By the way, I was in WOF for years until I realized how much false doctrine they teach.
How did Job trigger the event when they happened before that?
i take that God is able to speak truthfully when He calls job perfect and upright. He then after all the chapters concludes Job still remained right in what He said. because He spoke of things He did not understand, which is what He learned from the testing and His loss after Gods Last reprove to him. His repentance isnt because He sinned, its because he spoke of something He didnt know or understand.
God is teaching job something that He didnt previously Know that God is sovoriegn, anything He does is within His power to do whether He gives or takes away. Job didnt understand that bad things happen to good people as well, and God is never in a position to be blamed, He is God, He is good and no one Has the place to reprove or correct His ways is the overwhelming message in Gods final answer. you find the same in davids writings and solomons, only with the understanding of job.
after the Lord final reproval teaching Job, Job understands finally
Job 42:1-6Then Job answered the LORD, and said,2I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.3Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.4Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.5I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Job is sorry that He didnt get it, Now He does. Gods response afterward
job 42:7 "And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath."
Thier folly was to accuse job of being the cause of His suffering. and lead Him in poor counsel claiming they Knew, when they did not get it either. job 42:10 "And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before."
Jobs lesson, God giveth and take away. the righteous fall and the wicked stand, and the wicked fall and the righteous stand, But God is good and faithful to restore what we have Lost. who is man to question the Lords ways? and keep faith in God even when youd rather not even be born.
concerning anything that is "not of faith" " faith cometh by Hearing, and hearing by the word of God"
a side note comparing as some are in this thread Jesus to job, is like comparing an ant to God. Jesus is far beyond sinless, and it is that further aspect of Jesus that saves us. Jesus came from before the world was, already ordained to be who He is already glorified and all the sacrifice of the ot, is based on what He was ordained to do in the shedding of His blood. like a foreshadow, still forgiven through Christ were those of the Law, they just didnt understand that until God has revealed Christ Jesus. Jesus is much more than just a sinless man, He is the son of God who took upon Himself the sin of the world.
Yeah...Our loving God did use the event to teach Job, but He did not cause it....And Job was wise enough to learn what God taught him.
what of enoch bro? he never died and the "wages of sin, is death" i think the misunderstanding is that abstaining from sin, and having no sinful nature within us, ( passed on from adam) is 2 different things.
in one regard all born of adam have that nature, but enoch is a good example, that He must have not sinned for He walked with God and never saw death. sin = death. another example are these 144000 from the tribes of isreal
"And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
in fact sin was never charged to man until after the flood, though its presence was in the world, but when the Law came, men became guilty of sin.
romans 5:12-14 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."
adam knew the command, thus He is a sinner. if you look at what paul is saying here, it shows why we have to grasp the rest or it would make enoch not dying untrue
"so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" << if this is infallibly true, what of enoch? who never saw death ? was He not a man?
If Enoch was sinless... he would have gone to the Cross for the sins of mankind instead of Jesus
He didn't, so he wasn't.
Since he please God so much God translated him to paradise probably does mean he sinned the least of all men... but none the less he ain't no where near being sinless like Jesus.
so you would punish a kid for doing something they didnt know was wrong? the same as one who did know, and did it? i think in that instance ( just for the sake of our discussion, not saying you) the guilty party would be the parent who failed teaching the child would it?
to me, id think " dang, i didnt tell jr, its on me, and then id explain to him not to wrote on the wall, if then he did it after that, His punishment would be just
but anyways, im not sure this is important and i hope i havent offended you thanks for the disscussion, and good posts God bless you