Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?
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Yes, that's true, but keep in mind Job has already repented himself in dust an ashes. And who were Job's friends that sinned? It wasn't Elihu.
BTW Job's 3 friends sin was "because they had found no way to refute Job (his claims to blamelessness), and yet had condemned him." (see Job 32:3)
As always, let's look at the context:
First, Job's repentance: "Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:6
Now, Job's three friends, who were they?
Job 42:7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends (that's 3), because you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.
You see Job's three friends not only sinned by condemning Job without proof, but they also claimed that the reason Job was suffering all these calamities plus the boils was because there was some secret sin in his life, that he was doing something behind the backs of the people, and that God was punishing him.
Now, who were Job's three friends that had to repent also? Was if Elihu? No! He was the 4th man, used of God, to point out Job's problem.
Job 42:8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job's prayer.
Just no, Roberth!
You have completely mangled and read into the text things that are not there! Job is never called self righteous, the three friends are false friends who misrepresent the truth about why Job's condition has happened. In the end, we never learn God's reasons for what happened, so do stop using fleshly reasons and imaginings to think you have discovered the answer.
Truly one of the most blatant examples of bad hermeneutics I have ever seen!
You have completely mangled and read into the text things that are not there! Job is never called self righteous, the three friends are false friends who misrepresent the truth about why Job's condition has happened. In the end, we never learn God's reasons for what happened, so do stop using fleshly reasons and imaginings to think you have discovered the answer.
Truly one of the most blatant examples of bad hermeneutics I have ever seen!
Notice Elihu didn't need to repent because he spoke "in God's behalf" [Job 36:2]
What did He Elihu quote that Job stated of himself?
'I am pure and without sin" Job 33:9
What was Job's problem?
"he was righteous in his own eyes" Job 32:1
Therefore his sin was "he justified himself before God" Job 32:2
He was like the Pharisee in the NT:
Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
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Yes, you've done a terrible job of Job....
It's actually time to put your preconceived, traditionalism in the garbage and start honestly looking at the context of the book of Job.
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Tintin
Guest
Yes, you've done a terrible job of Job....
It's actually time to put your preconceived, traditionalism in the garbage and start honestly looking at the context of the book of Job.
Haha! You're ridiculous. Angela would be one of the most informed and wisest Christians here at CC.
These are the claims of self-righteous man full of pride and boastfulness.
What does John state about those who claim to be without sin?
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin (i.e., without sin, blameless), we deceive ourselves, and the truth (Christ, through the Spirit) is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins (including the sin of self-righteousness) , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
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Yes, maybe I should bow down to all you infallible folks....Sounds like some of you have Job's problem. Just saying...
T
Tintin
Guest
I never said any of us were infallible. I'm just saying that Angela is very well versed in the Book of Job. And you don't seem to be. I read this book for the first time in Grade 5 and even I could understand Job as something other than what you're teaching here.
Let's get back to the context instead of jawing who is well versed and who is not.....
You know, one thing I've realized, is that self-righteousness is in all churches. You have goats and you have sheep. The goats are the legalistic among us. And the sheep are those who place no confidence is their own righteousness, but instead the righteousness of Christ.
Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?
All of God's children are blameless in His sight because of Jesus Christ. We are holy vessels because of the Lord.
All of us are vile in our flesh (ego, carnal mind) because it's impossible for the flesh to receive anything from God.
Soooo................. was Job blameless or vile? The answer is: YES!
Yes, you've done a terrible job of Job....
It's actually time to put your preconceived, traditionalism in the garbage and start honestly looking at the context of the book of Job.
No, it is you that has strayed a million miles from the text, with your ridiculous extensions of the text, reading into it things that are not there, and twisting the book to fit your absurd speculations.
I have read Job over 50 times including in other languages. I have studied it in books written by a variety of authors, with some creative viewpoints.
Your is the only explanation that is exegetically wrong. Wrong because you are reading into the text words, doctrine that is simplhy not in the text. Wrong, because you are doing eisegesis - reading IN to the text what you want it to say, instead of taking OUT (exegesis) of the text what is actually saying.
Job has been my best friend on many occasions. In 2009, I had my foot reconstructed because it was so deformed. God told me to read Job, and we cried, blessed God together, and I learned to trust God in spite of the pain and the agony, because God spoke through Job to me.
It is too late at night for me to show you, in Hebrew how you are totally wrong. But if I am feeling ok tomorrow, I will take a stab at it.
I just hate to see people being led astray with false and damaging doctrines like the ones you have posted in this thread.
No. Elihu is not accusing Job of self-righteousness, he is defending him. In 33:1-14, the only thing Elihu says against Job is what I have already told you. Elihu chides job for questioning God concerning his miseries. Elihu is the only one of Job's friends who spoke the truth about God. This is why God did not require a sacrifice from him in chapter 40 as he did from Job's other friends who had not spoken that which was right about the Lord. All you are doing is trying to find fault with Job and falsely accuse him just like his friends did. God does not accuse Job so why do you? At any rate, I have heard enough of this nonsense.
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chancer
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That's a really unbalanced view of this book. Job was just a man, but God had a high view of him ... why else would he test him? Putting his confidence in him so much that he basically wagers his integrity in-front of Satan. That's why I think people who cant read the bible without tools should refrain from using the KJV, because the terminology used then doesn't make sense unless you study the book and do so contextually. Actually what am I saying ... it's easy to say what he's saying lol!! what happened man! It also says Job didn't sin and curse God, although he cursed himself and the day he was born. Human, but a good example of dealing with suffering ... there's reality in it.
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ember
Guest
typical response
not from the Holy Spirit
the Holy Spirit does not divide and conquer and He does not mock...he unites believers in truth and the love of Christ
there I proved it
Here's the context:
Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Righteous in your own eyes is self-righteousness. Saul, before conversion, said that has far as his law performance went he was blameless. See Phil :36. That again is self-righteousness.
2 But the anger of Elihu ... burned; against Job his anger burned because he (Job) justified himself before God.
How did Job justify himself before God? "let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless" (Job 31:6)
3 And his anger burned against his three friends because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.
So Elihu's anger was against both Job and Job's three friends.
Elihu was not defending Job. He is pointing our his self-righteous attitude.
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typical response
not from the Holy Spirit
the Holy Spirit does not divide and conquer and He does not mock...he unites believers in truth and the love of Christ
there I proved it
Speaking of dividing and conquering...that's what you are doing. You don't want to look at the context, you want to avoid it because it goes against your preconceived ideas. Therefore you change the subject and attack me. Let's keep to the context and avoid all this drama....
Job had the "I" problem too:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=job+31&version=NIV
Perhaps I should make you my pope?