John 3:9-18

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree Amniotic fluid is of the natural and has nothing whatsoever to do with a Spiritual rebirth There is water (H2O) present in amniotic fluid, but also electrolytes, proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, phospholipids, urea, and fetal urine. Anyone want to drink that? Ick!

The Bible uses the word water figuratively to signify both the cleansing properties of the Holy Spirit, and as a source of power. As Paul says, we are sanctified and cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. Jesus said, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." This water that Jesus speaks of cannot be H2O. Scripture also states: "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." But this He (Jesus) spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

ohhhh I love water but now ill
Have to think on it haha 🤪

yes the word provides these things always , when it comes to baptism in water for remission of sins , it is an act of faith we do it because Gods word said “ be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins and I will remit your sins and give to you the Holy Spirit “

faith it seems to be is where we are saved. Faith is like this we first hear what God says , and because we believe he said it , we know it’s true so we then act upon the blessing he’s said will come ..

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this of course is referencing abrams first recorded interaction with God. Abram was a believer and obeyed well
Before God labeled him as righteous by faith . and it is evident in that he didn’t question or reason away what God told him he believed that what God had said was true even though it may have not made sense to his thinking to leave his homeland …..but he received a promise from almighty God son the instruction beforehand became the path of Abraham

the word to abram

“Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

the blessing promised

and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

abrahams faith

So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭12:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this (in my opinion ) is the same principle In baptism. A word from the lord with a promised blessing and belief rather than reasoning it away so the action becomes faith like it was for Abraham regarding the word God had spoken to him .


“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

…Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They heard and believed and acted in faith . faith requires us to hear a word of faith , believe it simply because it’s Gods word in whom we believe , and the action comes based on that true belief of the hearing faith.

But if we reason it away ( like adam
And eve had done ) rather than believing what is said by God , we’re acting according to what we know and think rather than belief of what God said is going to Provide the blessing he’s offering.

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭

Noah again was told about the coming flood , it made no sense he didn’t see it happening , but God had said it and he believed and acted upon what God said.

God promised if he did what he was told he would make a new covenant with him , Noah believes the word about the ark and the blessing that would come from it and became heir of the same righteousness of faith we are offered.

We aren’t called to build an ark but a simple act of faith regarding baptism is the word we’re given and the promise of salvation follows according to what our God has said to us in Christ.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The principle of faith remains the same continually of God speaks a word and a promise that will result it’s always true to a believer and will surely come to
Pass just as the word of God has said it will.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift o

Davidtree I thank we have a to many people that have let the traditions of men make void the word of God for them

so you believe that Gods word teaches “ the traditions of men “ and we should just invent our own path ?

was this a tradition of men or did it come because God said it would ?

“As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you are saying this is a tradition of men and not the fulfillment of Gods word ?

Which was the same here after the apostles received the holy spirit

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just making sure your saying John , and Peter taught the traditions of men ? Or is it that some won’t believe what’s plainly there and act in faith ?

 

[pottersclay]

Ever notice that the meeting of jesus and nick took place at night?

These things that jesus said to nick were forbidden to even be discussed.
They (the jews) believed that the circumcision saved them. That the law justifies them.
Nick called for this meeting....why....because he witnessed the actions of jesus many times before.
He knew in his heart something more was needed.
I dare say if if this conversation took place today to common unbelievers or those not knowing term born again 80 percent of people would think of reincarnation.
Nick was not a stupid man and was a great teacher in israel. To even ask jesus to meet with him was very risky.
As we see as time goes on nick becomes a believer as he helps joseph of Aramathea with the body of jesus which was forbidden also.
Sorry i just didnt like the way you protrayed Nicodemus. Which has influence on the event being told.
One should also see what his name implies.

 

[DavidTree]

so you believe that Gods word teaches “ the traditions of men “ and we should just invent our own path ?

was this a tradition of men or did it come because God said it would ?

“As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you are saying this is a tradition of men and not the fulfillment of Gods word ?

Which was the same here after the apostles received the holy spirit

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just making sure your saying John , and Peter taught the traditions of men ? Or is it that some won’t believe what’s plainly there and act in faith ?

Traditions of men is not water baptism, just as you clearly pointed out.

The traditions of men would be teaching that the water baptism saves us and/or equates to the Second Birth.

This is why the LORD separated the 'water' = natural birth, from the 'wind' = Spirit birth

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” NOTICE = Jesus never includes water baptism for the second birth = ONLY WIND/Spirit

Jesus never says to Nickedemus: You must be water baptized then Step 2 the Spirit birth you again

Jesus says "You must be born-again by the Spirit alone".

Jesus says: "These words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life - the flesh profits nothing"

So then why water baptism??? = "To fulfill all righteousness"

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Traditions of men is not water baptism, just as you clearly pointed out.

The traditions of men would be teaching that the water baptism saves us and/or equates to the Second Birth.

This is why the LORD separated the 'water' = natural birth, from the 'wind' = Spirit birth

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” NOTICE = Jesus never includes water baptism for the second birth = ONLY WIND/Spirit

Jesus never says to Nickedemus: You must be water baptized then Step 2 the Spirit birth you again

Jesus says "You must be born-again by the Spirit alone".

Jesus says: "These words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life - the flesh profits nothing"

So then why water baptism??? = "To fulfill all righteousness"

“The traditions of men would be teaching that the water baptism saves us and/or equates to the Second Birth.”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is an act of basic faith , faith saves.

baptism is equated to a new birth according to the Bible. You guys are saying “ when a persons born thier born of water “ when a persons born again water is part of it.

it’s a basic fundamental thing. If bekng born of a woman mattered and covered water why did they all get baptized in water including Jesus ? Because it’s a basic pint of the gospel is why. It’s an act of faith.

It’s simple in my view but again if we want to stray from scripture and teach of a different baptism than the one Jesus partook of and insist that’s not the right baptism , there’s going to be no agreement with me which is okay in my view

when you guys are talking about how “the word washes us “ it is to hear and actually do the word not to hear and then explain it away as a ritual that has no connection to what it says it is. It’s extremely simple you believe Jesus died for your sins and raised up again from death , so you get baptized into his death as your submerged and raised up in the new life of a Christian.

baptism is just like communion it’s in no way a ritual it’s something you do because you believe what Jesus said. It’s an action of faith.

“and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rituals don’t have the impact that faith does. a ritual doesn’t come from faith , faith is something you do because you believe what God said is true. If you don’t hear and believe I guess it becomes a ritual though

water and spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Spirit and water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Either way your being born of water and spirit just like when a human baby is born thier born of water and then take thier breath of life.

but again you know it’s basic faith. And no one in earth needs to agree with me we should be able to agree with scripture though without our secret ways of changing what it actually says.

 

[Thewatchman]

yes I agree that’s sort of my point regarding a new birth. We have the natural which is meaningless in terms of what the Bible is talking about. But we have all three spoken forth by God the water of remission of sins , the word of remission of sins and of course the blood shed for remission of sins

these three witnesses agree upon remission of sins , in order to remit the witnesses needed for imputation of sin by the law of sin and death

“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭17:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it is only my wierd thinking but it makes sense that since two or three witnesses are needed to impute sin according to the law , and also the gospel. God has provided remission of sins by his witness.

which his testimony is greater than any mans in these three the water provided by Gods word , the blood provided by Gods word and the spirit provided by Gods word.

makes relatively good sense to me anyways

honestly brother I don’t think in need you to teach me about baptism I’m willing to just believe what scripture says

but yes have a great evening love always

Pilgrimshope Trying to explain something to you is like trying to plow drought hardened Ground. Born of water. You have to be born physically before you can be born again "Saved by the blood of Christ" Born physically "born of the womb" Go to the book of John chapter 3 verse 3 Jesus answered and said unto him "Verilly, Verilly. [Truely, Truely] I say to you unless a man be born again, He can not see the kingdom of God. " Verse 4. Nicodemus saith unto him "How can a man be born when he is old? can He enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born" He did not have a clue as to what Jesus was talking about. Verse 5. Jesus answered Verilly Verilly I say unto thee Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he CAN NOT enter the kingdom of God. Verse 6. That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Jesus is talking about 2 very different types of birth. 1 is a physical birth, the birth of a child as it combs out of the mothers womb. The second that can not take place untill you become of age to understand the basic things of God That is the spiritual birth. No birth takes place because someone dunks you into a tub of water, dunks you in the creek, in the pool, in the lake, or a muddy body of water. All it is going to do is get you wet. I don't care how many prayers are said as you are under the water, what words are said to you before you go into the water, not unless you are Jesus Christ reincarnated and John the Baptist comes along to put you into the river Jorden no dove is coming down from heaven, no voice is going to say this is My Son whom I am well pleased. With out asking Jesus to come into your heart replace the heart of stone with a heart of flesh; unless He stands at the door and knocks and you let him in; NO amount of water is going to save you. You have a better chance of droning in that water than you do of being saved, born again and have a chance to enter heaven.

 

[DavidTree]

“The traditions of men would be teaching that the water baptism saves us and/or equates to the Second Birth.”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is an act of basic faith , faith saves.

baptism is equated to a new birth according to the Bible. You guys are saying “ when a persons born thier born of water “ when a persons born again water is part of it.

it’s a basic fundamental thing. If bekng born of a woman mattered and covered water why did they all get baptized in water including Jesus ? Because it’s a basic pint of the gospel is why. It’s an act of faith.

It’s simple in my view but again if we want to stray from scripture and teach of a different baptism than the one Jesus partook of and insist that’s not the right baptism , there’s going to be no agreement with me which is okay in my view

when you guys are talking about how “the word washes us “ it is to hear and actually do the word not to hear and then explain it away as a ritual that has no connection to what it says it is. It’s extremely simple you believe Jesus died for your sins and raised up again from death , so you get baptized into his death as your submerged and raised up in the new life of a Christian.

baptism is just like communion it’s in no way a ritual it’s something you do because you believe what Jesus said. It’s an action of faith.

“and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:24-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rituals don’t have the impact that faith does. a ritual doesn’t come from faith , faith is something you do because you believe what God said is true. If you don’t hear and believe I guess it becomes a ritual though

water and spirit

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Spirit and water

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Either way your being born of water and spirit just like when a human baby is born thier born of water and then take thier breath of life.

but again you know it’s basic faith. And no one in earth needs to agree with me we should be able to agree with scripture though without our secret ways of changing what it actually says.

Yes Brother, this was covered in one Question/Answer = So then why water baptism??? = "To fulfill all righteousness"

A.) There are souls in Heaven who have been baptized in water and THEN were Born-Again by the SPIRIT
B.) There are souls in Heaven who Born-Again by the SPIRIT and THEN baptized in water ( Me ).
C.) There are souls in Heaven who were NOT baptized in water but they were Born-Again by the SPIRIT
D.) There are souls in Hell who were baptized in water.
E.) A,B & C = all souls Born-Again but not all baptized in water

You KNOW this Brother = water baptism cannot save anyone = PERIOD
If it could, Christ would not have suffered and died on the Cross.

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct
by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Did ELOHIM save the Children of Israel by water or by the BLOOD of the Lamb?
Did the Angel of Death pass over the dwellings of the Israelites because they were water baptized OR because the BLOOD
Now think Brother = ELOHIM did give them another MUST DO before the sacrifice of the LAMB = what was it???

Sing with me my Brother.....

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

• Refrain:
  Oh! precious is the flow
  That makes me white as snow;
  No other fount I know,
  Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

1. For my pardon, this I see,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   For my cleansing this my plea,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
2. Nothing can for sin atone,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   Naught of good that I have done,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
3. This is all my hope and peace,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   This is all my righteousness,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
4. Now by this I’ll overcome—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   Now by this I’ll reach my home—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
5. Glory! Glory! This I sing—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
   All my praise for this I bring—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes Brother, this was covered in one Question/Answer = So then why water baptism??? = "To fulfill all righteousness"

A.) There are souls in Heaven who have been baptized in water and THEN were Born-Again by the SPIRIT
B.) There are souls in Heaven who Born-Again by the SPIRIT and THEN baptized in water ( Me ).
C.) There are souls in Heaven who were NOT baptized in water but they were Born-Again by the SPIRIT
D.) There are souls in Hell who were baptized in water.
E.) A,B & C = all souls Born-Again but not all baptized in water

You KNOW this Brother = water baptism cannot save anyone = PERIOD
If it could, Christ would not have suffered and died on the Cross.

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct
by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Did ELOHIM save the Children of Israel by water or by the BLOOD of the Lamb?
Did the Angel of Death pass over the dwellings of the Israelites because they were water baptized OR because the BLOOD
Now think Brother = ELOHIM did give them another MUST DO before the sacrifice of the LAMB = what was it???

Sing with me my Brother.....
What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

• Refrain:
  Oh! precious is the flow
  That makes me white as snow;
  No other fount I know,
  Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

1. For my pardon, this I see,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   For my cleansing this my plea,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
2. Nothing can for sin atone,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   Naught of good that I have done,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
3. This is all my hope and peace,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   This is all my righteousness,
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
4. Now by this I’ll overcome—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
   Now by this I’ll reach my home—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
5. Glory! Glory! This I sing—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
   All my praise for this I bring—
   Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

the hearing of faith

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the action of faith from believer of that

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

the resulting promise


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

brother believing jesus shed his blood is good , to ignore what God said to do because you believe it is not good. Faith saves

if we believe Jesus died for us , we should get baptized into his death that’s what scripture says to do. It’s faith

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pilgrimshope Trying to explain something to you is like trying to plow drought hardened Ground. Born of water. You have to be born physically before you can be born again "Saved by the blood of Christ" Born physically "born of the womb" Go to the book of John chapter 3 verse 3 Jesus answered and said unto him "Verilly, Verilly. [Truely, Truely] I say to you unless a man be born again, He can not see the kingdom of God. " Verse 4. Nicodemus saith unto him "How can a man be born when he is old? can He enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born" He did not have a clue as to what Jesus was talking about. Verse 5. Jesus answered Verilly Verilly I say unto thee Except a man be born of water and of the spirit he CAN NOT enter the kingdom of God. Verse 6. That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Jesus is talking about 2 very different types of birth. 1 is a physical birth, the birth of a child as it combs out of the mothers womb. The second that can not take place untill you become of age to understand the basic things of God That is the spiritual birth. No birth takes place because someone dunks you into a tub of water, dunks you in the creek, in the pool, in the lake, or a muddy body of water. All it is going to do is get you wet. I don't care how many prayers are said as you are under the water, what words are said to you before you go into the water, not unless you are Jesus Christ reincarnated and John the Baptist comes along to put you into the river Jorden no dove is coming down from heaven, no voice is going to say this is My Son whom I am well pleased. With out asking Jesus to come into your heart replace the heart of stone with a heart of flesh; unless He stands at the door and knocks and you let him in; NO amount of water is going to save you. You have a better chance of droning in that water than you do of being saved, born again and have a chance to enter heaven.

lol yes because I just believe what scripture says ,and getting you to accept plain and basic scripture that is what we’re supposed to actually believe seems like mission impossible

 

[DavidTree]

the hearing of faith

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the action of faith from believer of that

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

the resulting promise


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

brother believing jesus shed his blood is good , to ignore what God said to do because you believe it is not good. Faith saves

if we believe Jesus died for us , we should get baptized into his death that’s what scripture says to do. It’s faith

I never said "do not water baptize" - that would be foolish.
Even if you add faith to water baptism, it still is insufficient to save anyone.

Now pay careful attention because the Lord Jesus will tell you again what He said to Nicodemus

Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

 

[Thewatchman]

so you believe that Gods word teaches “ the traditions of men “ and we should just invent our own path ?

was this a tradition of men or did it come because God said it would ?

“As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you are saying this is a tradition of men and not the fulfillment of Gods word ?

Which was the same here after the apostles received the holy spirit

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just making sure your saying John , and Peter taught the traditions of men ? Or is it that some won’t believe what’s plainly there and act in faith ?

Pilgrimshop You thank that the teaching of the traditions of men spoken of by Jesus in Mark 7:6-13 Is the bible telling us we should just invent our own path?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
He was talking about the traditions of religion making void the word. Just like water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
That Jesus will return at some other time than the 7th trump. Flesh bodies go to heaven. We could keep this list going on and on.
If you truly don't understand the traditions of men make void the word of God and are not trying to push my buttons; You need to find a new teacher, pastor. . . because they are not leading you to good pasture. I am not judging I am asking if they really teach you that it is against Gods word which I just posted from Mark chapter 7 and we could go to other places.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I never said "do not water baptize" - that would be foolish.
Even if you add faith to water baptism, it still is insufficient to save anyone.

Now pay careful attention because the Lord Jesus will tell you again what He said to Nicodemus

Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Oof brother my spirit is worn out on this discussion.

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s much simpler than what’s being made out in this thread. Your acting as if I’m saying “ water saves without the spirit “

I’m saying this it’s simple we believe this

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so we do this because we believe he does for our sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s simple faith isn’t complex it believes what God said , believes what God said to do and acts in that same faith.

if the lord appeared to you and said “ David there is ten million dollars buried three feet down in the very center of your back yard

there’s a new shovel in your garage

fond of it up and posses it it’s a gift from me to you


would you then begin to say “ lord the shovel has no meaning or purpose , lord I don’t need to dig it up you told
Me it was there already

faith is belief of just what God said first he says a truth “ Jesus died for remission of sins “ then he says “ get baptized in his name for remission of sins “ then he says “ you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost “

there’s absolutely no reason to argue that baptism isn’t part of believing what he said he said it it’s on us to hear and believe and act.

but you have the last word it’s exhausting going back and forth over one of the most basic principles of the gospel

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pilgrimshop You thank that the teaching of the traditions of men spoken of by Jesus in Mark 7:6-13 Is the bible telling us we should just invent our own path?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
He was talking about the traditions of religion making void the word. Just like water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
That Jesus will return at some other time than the 7th trump. Flesh bodies go to heaven. We could keep this list going on and on.
If you truly don't understand the traditions of men make void the word of God and are not trying to push my buttons; You need to find a new teacher, pastor. . . because they are not leading you to good pasture. I am not judging I am asking if they really teach you that it is against Gods word which I just posted from Mark chapter 7 and we could go to other places.

the traditions of men is when you reject the plain things and create some other bizarre teaching explaining it away

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not a tradition of man but the word of the lord

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

not a tradition invented by man but a chief apostle carrying out what the lord said to do after he himself received the Holy Spirit as he was promised.

when we start making up bizarre reasons why that’s a tradition of man I’d say we’ve parted from the way he made clear and began to create our own path.

but as I told David this is exhausting to debate over such a simple and plain thing so you have the last word im going to move on to those willing to share and also hear the scripture and talk about what it says

 

[DavidTree]

Oof brother my spirit is worn out on this discussion.

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s much simpler than what’s being made out in this thread. Your acting as if I’m saying “ water saves without the spirit “

I’m saying this it’s simple we believe this

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so we do this because we believe he does for our sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s simple faith isn’t complex it believes what God said , believes what God said to do and acts in that same faith.

if the lord appeared to you and said “ David there is ten million dollars buried three feet down in the very center of your back yard

there’s a new shovel in your garage

fond of it up and posses it it’s a gift from me to you


would you then begin to say “ lord the shovel has no meaning or purpose , lord I don’t need to dig it up you told
Me it was there already

faith is belief of just what God said first he says a truth “ Jesus died for remission of sins “ then he says “ get baptized in his name for remission of sins “ then he says “ you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost “

there’s absolutely no reason to argue that baptism isn’t part of believing what he said he said it it’s on us to hear and believe and act.

but you have the last word it’s exhausting going back and forth over one of the most basic principles of the gospel

water baptism and faith = dead end

Faith in the Word of God = His Finished Work of Christ on the Cross and His Resurrection and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit = BINGO
(includes the water baptism of the flesh also)

How are you going to see if you bypass the message of Christ to Nickodemus, and to us, in John 3:1-21 ???

 

[Pilgrimshope]

water baptism and faith = dead end

Faith in the Word of God = His Finished Work of Christ on the Cross and His Resurrection and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit = BINGO

well the Bible must be teaching a dead end then

 

[DavidTree]

well the Bible must be teaching a dead end then

Only if you focus on water baptized flesh that is condemned to death, even after it is baptized in His Name.

Now, if you focus on what Jesus says in John 3:1-21 - then you get the whole Message of Salvation.

 

[DavidTree]

well the Bible must be teaching a dead end then

Remember, i never said "do not water baptize", so don't give the devil any ground.

Right now, your focus is on water baptism.
The LORD wants to Bless you brother:
Follow the recommendation of John the Baptist who said: "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Remember, i never said "do not water baptize", so don't give the devil any ground.

Right now, your focus is on water baptism.
The LORD wants to Bless you brother:
Follow the recommendation of John the Baptist who said: "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"

lol no I’m just agreeing with what scripture says about water baptism I’m not looking for what isn’t stated in scripture.

brother I’m old not looking for any new age teachings that go beyond what’s written . I’m content with believing what the word of God has to say.

if you notice Peter had just received the Holy Ghost at pentocost when he said this

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

he also had just preached Jesus death to them. So are you explaining to me that Peter just didn’t get it and you do ?

it’s always been the same gotta believe the gospel , then get baptized according to his word , and he Jesus will give the Holy Spirit according to his word.

If someone believes Jesus died for our sins , the next step of faith is to get baptized as Jesus showed us and the apostles all did , and taught because they believe he died for our sins.

Water baptism is for remission of sins because you believe Jesus died to remit your sins, and said in the gospel he forgives our sins.

the Holy Ghost is something God gives us because we believe. Again it’s not rocket science and it’s not hidden it’s plain so anyone who hears and believes can act in it.

 

[DavidTree]

lol no I’m just agreeing with what scripture says about water baptism I’m not looking for what isn’t stated in scripture.

brother I’m old not looking for any new age teachings that go beyond what’s written . I’m content with believing what the word of God has to say.

if you notice Peter had just received the Holy Ghost at pentocost when he said this

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

he also had just preached Jesus death to them. So are you explaining to me that Peter just didn’t get it and you do ?

it’s always been the same gotta believe the gospel , then get baptized according to his word , and he Jesus will give the Holy Spirit according to his word.

If someone believes Jesus died for our sins , the next step of faith is to get baptized as Jesus showed us and the apostles all did , and taught because they believe he died for our sins.

Water baptism is for remission of sins because you believe Jesus died to remit your sins, and said in the gospel he forgives our sins.

the Holy Ghost is something God gives us because we believe. Again it’s not rocket science and it’s not hidden it’s plain so anyone who hears and believes can act in it.

Many christians today are saved, born-again by the Spirit, but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit made this clear in Acts and i have personally seen and heard the difference from the Testimony of Saints who were saved for many years but were taught, like John McArthur, against the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, later to receive it and blessed in it.

If you believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is automatically 'given' then you do not know the book of Acts.
Remember, we are 2,000 Years away from the time of the Apostles when the Outpouring was first delivered.
Since then, the majority of christian churches has denied it, fought against and misunderstood.
Today, Baptists and others, such as John McArthur continue to speak against the baptism of the Holy Spirit - just as in Acts.

When we only seek select quotes of scripture to conform to our view but refuse the entire text as it is written, we can easily be misguided.

PS - i have no idea what you mean by "new age teachings beyond what's written".
I have never spoken to you about anything other then His Word of Truth.

"They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Many christians today are saved, born-again by the Spirit, but have not been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit made this clear in Acts and i have personally seen and heard the difference from the Testimony of Saints who were saved for many years but were taught, like John McArthur, against the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, later to receive it and blessed in it.

If you believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is automatically 'given' then you do not know the book of Acts.
Remember, we are 2,000 Years away from the time of the Apostles when the Outpouring was first delivered.
Since then, the majority of christian churches has denied it, fought against and misunderstood.
Today, Baptists and others, such as John McArthur continue to speak against the baptism of the Holy Spirit - just as in Acts.

When we only seek select quotes of scripture to conform to our view but refuse the entire text as it is written, we can easily be misguided.

PS - i have no idea what you mean by "new age teachings beyond what's written".
I have never spoken to you about anything other then His Word of Truth.

"They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth."

“they also may be sanctified by the truth."


That’s what believing the gospel is about

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Part of it is to get baptized believing the gospel ( christs word and his death and resurrection are all the gospel ) everything that’s found in Matthew mark Luke and John those are the gospel we’re meant to believe the gospel and get baptized that covers it all of we ac to ally believe the gospel including christs word of truth this in no way changes the meaning or importance of baptism ot fully agrees with it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

Jesus said that in the gospel and he was sent to preach the gospel first in Israel and then sent them to spread it to the world including baptism for remission of sins


“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

here’s Peter filled with the Holy Ghost beginning that commission first he preached Jesus and his death and resurrection to them and then says

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s never going to change believing his word will always sanctify the heart and mind and life over time , getting baptized because we believe he shed his blood for remission of sins is always going to be the same act of faith , and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is always going to be the same for any who the lord calls

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism hasn’t changed it’s the e same as John established , receiving the soirit hasn’t changed it’s the same Jesus preached and gives. And the blood hasn’t changed it’s the same that flowed down the cross at Calvary