Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet

[blondieindahouse]

I don't know you well enough to falsely or truly accuse you of anything

you made my point

thank you and good day.....

"you always sound like you are about to explode"

"I don't know you well enough to falsely or truly accuse you of anything"


Id say you proved something but it wasnt good for you chica

 

[shotgunner]

Well first you need to distinguish between condemning and righteous judgment of calling another out on their false teachings.

Because for some reason you think I am condemning a person which never has been said or done by me. I am instead calling out and exposing what they or others teach that does not align with the Word of God. That in no way is condemning a person by doing that, and Jesus called out the Pharisees in front of others as well did John the Baptist call out openly King Herod on his sin.

We are called to expose the works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11) not keep them hidden from others. If we sit back and do not tell others of the falsehoods another teaches we will be held accountable for letting others fall under the false teachings instead of warning them.

God bless

Just because you believe what she is teaching does not align with God's word, doesn't mean that it doesn't align with God's word, it's just your opinion. There are many of thousands of believers that do agree with her teaching. I have personally listened to a dozen or more hours of her and have never heard anything contrary to God's word.

 

[blondieindahouse]

well one more thing...this thread is actually about spreading rumors and lies and exaggerating...

there are worse things then having a fancy toilet...at any rate, she does not have any such toilet

I've been the target of false accusations and hung out to dry...it's poison and people need to stop

So why did you do as you wish people to stop doing? You are a hypocrite .

 

[PoetMary]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I've never watched an entire sermon by Joyce Meyer. I know very little about her doctrinal views, and I have no dog in the fight regarding the rise or fall of her ministry.

Part of the reason why people are given to believe rumor, etc., instead of getting the facts (which, btw, are readily available on wikipedia, for example) is because people love scandal. Americans in particular love to build people up into demi-gods then celebrate as we tear them down.

Joyce Meyer is a bit of a conundrum for many people because 1) she's a woman enjoying this level of success in a ministry 2) she's not affiliated with a church (and I don't mean that she's not a member or supporter of a church/churches, only that her ministry is not an outreach of a particular church or denomination) and 3) she's rich.

However, Joyce Meyer Ministries is a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. In other words, her ministry submits their financials every year to this oversight committee for revue (they have done, apparently since 2009). These financials are available to review online.

Her income, btw, comes primarily from her book sales...which are substantial. I have yet to see a someone in here create a board about Christian writers and how they spend their money.

Some people go after Joyce Meyers (and others) based on doctrinal issues. While I can't comment on particulars, I've seen plenty of people float unsubstantiated propaganda about others and build some theological discourse based on false information. I think it's possible that some people have a false understanding of her doctrine and build their case based on erroneous assumptions.

Having said that, I'm sure there are also legitimate points for complaint. The idea that somehow someone must have perfectly spotless doctrine before they dare step forward and serve Christ is part of the reason why so many Christians are pew-sitters instead of more active in living the gospel. I give kudos to people who are out there willing to take a risk...even if they're risking screwing up. Look at Peter, when he implied to Jesus that he'd not really have to die, Jesus said, "Get behind me Satan!" to him. Yet Peter kept following Jesus...only to betray him. But he accepted the forgiveness of Jesus and kept at it...only to be corrected about food in a dream. And he kept going....again to be corrected about circumcision.

It's easy for people who are watching from the sidelines of the arena to take pot shots at the people who are actually gladiating. Those people feel very safe with their ideas. They can Monday-morning quarterback all day long. Of course, they can't be bothered to enter the arena. They prefer the safety of the cheap seats.

 

[KennethC]

Just because you believe what she is teaching does not align with God's word, doesn't mean that it doesn't align with God's word, it's just your opinion. There are many of thousands of believers that do agree with her teaching. I have personally listened to a dozen or more hours of her and have never heard anything contrary to God's word.

Well I would say keep listening because I have done the same in listen to many of her sermons as well as looked into a couple of her books.

I am not going off just what others have said nor is just my opinion as if the Word of God says one thing clearly and she or another says completely different, opposite, or even rearranges the order of the scripture then it makes it false. I have heard her personally say things that do not align so it is not just opinion !!!

Here is a quote from Joyce Meyer herself.........

"All I was ever taught to say was, 'I, a poor, miserable sinner.' I am not poor. I am not miserable. And I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell!"

Claiming to not be a sinner is the same as saying she is without sin and we know what 1 John has to say about that !!!

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Frankly I don't care about Joyce Meyer, don't know who she is, and I don't care to find out.

The $23,000 toilet, whether it exists or not, reminds me of a funny folk maxim.

"Even a golden toilet is full of s***."

 

[shotgunner]

Well I would say keep listening because I have done the same in listen to many of her sermons as well as looked into a couple of her books.

I am not going off just what others have said nor is just my opinion as if the Word of God says one thing clearly and she or another says completely different, opposite, or even rearranges the order of the scripture then it makes it false. I have heard her personally say things that do not align so it is not just opinion !!!

Here is a quote from Joyce Meyer herself.........

"All I was ever taught to say was, 'I, a poor, miserable sinner.' I am not poor. I am not miserable. And I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell!"

Claiming to not be a sinner is the same as saying she is without sin and we know what 1 John has to say about that !!!

That's not false teaching! It's you not understanding what the Word says. She didn't say that she never sins. She said she isn't a sinner. You aren't a sinner either if you are born again, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You can't be the righteousness of God and a sinner at the same time. She just chooses to believe what God says about herself instead of basing who she is on her own works. That is exactly what all Christians should be doing.

 

[ladylynn]

Well that is where you are wrong because I just installed a new toilet in my house 6 months ago, and for the whole toilet it only cost $75 dollars at Do-It-Best hardware.

Also I just bought a new dresser for $50 two years ago so those prices do exist if one would just look around instead of having to gone to big name chains. Even then you can still find cheaper prices less then $600-$2,000 dollars.

Heck there is even a place in Kansas City, Missouri called Gaines Furniture where you can by a whole bedroom set for less then $2,000.

I'm a woman on my own and can't install things in the house anymore. 8 yrs ago I would never have considered buying a brand new home that had everything new and sparkling. I'd have done without and been VERY happy for a roof over my head and a leaky toilet to learn how to fix on my own by watching youtube. Going the 'high road' and learning what tools and how to use them all from HomeDepot and spend a week or more getting one of the many different house repair jobs done., I was also very proud of my thriftiness and new found ability to do this house stuff or go without if needs be.

As the years have progressed and I've gotten older., the things I use to have the energy to fix no longer get done, unless I hire it and that has not always worked since not all contractors are honest., and because it also means taking time off from work to interview and allow strangers in my house. I have the money now but not the time.

So now, years later, circumstances have caused me to see I can afford this brand new home with every faucet perfect, every carpet perfect and complete, every window new and thermal insulated no more taping seams and using caulk each year. No more plastic on the windows with duct tape. No more fear of the pipes freezing and the roof falling in. At one time I could deal with those issues and even climb up on the roof and shovel the snow off and be happy about it., but today., it's a totally different deal.

God brought me through the rough times when job and monies were not in abundance. It was how to survive the way God gave opportunity. Today the opportunities are not like they were 8 yrs ago. But only me and God know that. People see my house and me and think all is fine and in good order. They don't know that same toilet is leaking again., that the window leaks and water gets on the sills., that my body is not as strong as before.

That I get home tired from working at a job I very much enjoy but don't have the energy to fix toilets and seal windows before winter like before. It takes about 2 weeks for my home to be winterized and I've just gotten another job. No one but God and I know this. (and now who ever reads this) But really, only the person who is spending the money for what some would consider a high priced home knows it's the thing to do and with God's blessings too!

My issues are on a different dollar scale than Joyce, but none the less the ISSUE and subject matter is exactly the same. Someone looking on from the outside seeing what they THINK my life is vs the REALITY. I used to buy used furniture and enjoy getting a good deal for something the store charges 5x s more for. But today I'm not able to truck the stuff or shop for the deals. I have to have them deliver stuff because I can't lift such things anymore and rent a UHaul. Takes something I don't have anymore.

So please try to consider not everyone is in the same boat. We each have individual lives that NO ONE can know the depths of and certainly have no place to rightfully judge except God in His wisdom and knowledge.

 

[KennethC]

That's not false teaching! It's you not understanding what the Word says. She didn't say that she never sins. She said she isn't a sinner. You aren't a sinner either if you are born again, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You can't be the righteousness of God and a sinner at the same time. She just chooses to believe what God says about herself instead of basing who she is on her own works. That is exactly what all Christians should be doing.

Come on now I know and understand what the Word of God says about being a sinner, and it says we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

To say you are not a sinner means you never sin but unfortunately we all do as we live in a corruptible body of flesh that can not inherit the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 15:50). This is why the Holy Spirit is sent to us to help guide us, strengthen us, and chastise us for correction because of our sinful behaviors we must put aside.

Lord Jesus presents us blameless and without spot when we stand before God because He covers our sins with His blood when we have repented and confessed them to Him for forgiveness. We are still sinners in flesh learning to walk away from our own righteousness and instead walk in His righteousness (Spirit).

The difference is that we learn not to live a lifestyle of continuous deliberate habitual sinning, but we can still give into temptations at times which is why we need times of refreshing Acts 3:19-21.

We are in a molding process as even the Apostle Paul showed the maturing in the faith that occurs as he showed when he was new to the faith of Christ his fleshly desires (carnal ways) warred with his new nature (Spiritual). Only by walking by the Spirit was there now no condemnation as walking by the flesh still keeps one under bondage.

 

[KennethC]

I'm a woman on my own and can't install things in the house anymore. 8 yrs ago I would never have considered buying a brand new home that had everything new and sparkling. I'd have done without and been VERY happy for a roof over my head and a leaky toilet to learn how to fix on my own by watching youtube. Going the 'high road' and learning what tools and how to use them all from HomeDepot and spend a week or more getting one of the many different house repair jobs done., I was also very proud of my thriftiness and new found ability to do this house stuff or go without if needs be.

As the years have progressed and I've gotten older., the things I use to have the energy to fix no longer get done, unless I hire it and that has not always worked since not all contractors are honest., and because it also means taking time off from work to interview and allow strangers in my house. I have the money now but not the time.

So now, years later, circumstances have caused me to see I can afford this brand new home with every faucet perfect, every carpet perfect and complete, every window new and thermal insulated no more taping seams and using caulk each year. No more plastic on the windows with duct tape. No more fear of the pipes freezing and the roof falling in. At one time I could deal with those issues and even climb up on the roof and shovel the snow off and be happy about it., but today., it's a totally different deal.

God brought me through the rough times when job and monies were not in abundance. It was how to survive the way God gave opportunity. Today the opportunities are not like they were 8 yrs ago. But only me and God know that. People see my house and me and think all is fine and in good order. They don't know that same toilet is leaking again., that the window leaks and water gets on the sills., that my body is not as strong as before.

That I get home tired from working at a job I very much enjoy but don't have the energy to fix toilets and seal windows before winter like before. It takes about 2 weeks for my home to be winterized and I've just gotten another job. No one but God and I know this. (and now who ever reads this) But really, only the person who is spending the money for what some would consider a high priced home knows it's the thing to do and with God's blessings too!

My issues are on a different dollar scale than Joyce, but none the less the ISSUE and subject matter is exactly the same. Someone looking on from the outside seeing what they THINK my life is vs the REALITY. I used to buy used furniture and enjoy getting a good deal for something the store charges 5x s more for. But today I'm not able to truck the stuff or shop for the deals. I have to have them deliver stuff because I can't lift such things anymore and rent a UHaul. Takes something I don't have anymore.

So please try to consider not everyone is in the same boat. We each have individual lives that NO ONE can know the depths of and certainly have no place to rightfully judge except God in His wisdom and knowledge.

What are you trying to get at because I am not against people being rich, I don't have a problem with that.

The issue that I have is that people who claim to be Christians or true followers of Christ spend more time and money on self then on others, as the Word of God clearly says we are to esteem others more then self.

I also am not talking about buying used or dealing with junk, as I am talking about brand new products that are good that still can be purchased at low costs. Higher prices does not mean better quality all of the time as that is a lie that is feed to consumers to make them purchase their products.

Also I don't know about where you live but here in Missouri where I live we have church based and city based organizations that will come out and install things for disabled and senior citizens at no cost. They will also come in and winterize their homes and other choirs at no cost.

People need to look around and do more research then just think that things can not be done or gotten cheap any more !!!

To end there is two forms of judgment spoken of in the bible; Wrongful judgment (condemning) and Righteous judgment (calling out the sinful behavior of others for correction/and helping them in the process).

 

[blue_ladybug]

That's not false teaching! It's you not understanding what the Word says. She didn't say that she never sins. She said she isn't a sinner. You aren't a sinner either if you are born again, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. You can't be the righteousness of God and a sinner at the same time. She just chooses to believe what God says about herself instead of basing who she is on her own works. That is exactly what all Christians should be doing.

Umm, yeah, "never sinning" and "not a sinner" is kind of an oxymoron, because if you never sin, then how is it possible to be a sinner? lol Sorry, shotgunner, but YES, even born again christians sin. Just because we're saved doesn't mean that we aren't still tempted to sin.

 

[LanceA]

What are you trying to get at because I am not against people being rich, I don't have a problem with that.

The issue that I have is that people who claim to be Christians or true followers of Christ spend more time and money on self then on others, as the Word of God clearly says we are to esteem others more then self.

I also am not talking about buying used or dealing with junk, as I am talking about brand new products that are good that still can be purchased at low costs. Higher prices does not mean better quality all of the time as that is a lie that is feed to consumers to make them purchase their products.

Also I don't know about where you live but here in Missouri where I live we have church based and city based organizations that will come out and install things for disabled and senior citizens at no cost. They will also come in and winterize their homes and other choirs at no cost.

People need to look around and do more research then just think that things can not be done or gotten cheap any more !!!

To end there is two forms of judgment spoken of in the bible; Wrongful judgment (condemning) and Righteous judgment (calling out the sinful behavior of others for correction/and helping them in the process).

So how do you know that the Joyce Meyers aren't spending more time preaching the word of God than fixing their homes? I'm sure Joyce has someone else put in her fancy toilet or whatever. This gives her plenty of time to serve the Lord and give to others that are in need.

 

[ladylynn]

What are you trying to get at because I am not against people being rich, I don't have a problem with that.

The issue that I have is that people who claim to be Christians or true followers of Christ spend more time and money on self then on others, as the Word of God clearly says we are to esteem others more then self.

I also am not talking about buying used or dealing with junk, as I am talking about brand new products that are good that still can be purchased at low costs. Higher prices does not mean better quality all of the time as that is a lie that is feed to consumers to make them purchase their products.

Also I don't know about where you live but here in Missouri where I live we have church based and city based organizations that will come out and install things for disabled and senior citizens at no cost. They will also come in and winterize their homes and other choirs at no cost.

People need to look around and do more research then just think that things can not be done or gotten cheap any more !!!

To end there is two forms of judgment spoken of in the bible; Wrongful judgment (condemning) and Righteous judgment (calling out the sinful behavior of others for correction/and helping them in the process).

And you just did it again., I don't have anyone to do those things now nor the time to find them. My situation is not one you can put in a nice neat category with nice perfect even rows of this reason and that reason. You can't do that with people Kenneth. Each person is not the same, we each have different opportunities and different abilities and different sources. You have missed the point again;



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Higher prices does not mean better quality all of the time as that is a lie that is feed to consumers to make them purchase their products.

Also I don't know about where you live but here in Missouri where I live we have church based and city based organizations that will come out and install things for disabled and senior citizens at no cost. They will also come in and winterize their homes and other choirs at no cost.

People need to look around and do more research then just think that things can not be done or gotten cheap any more !!!

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I'm "people" and I don't have time to look around and do even more research than I already have done. What people need to do is stop judging others according to their own circumstances. Kenneth., we do not share the same circumstances. And I've already been down some roads you just mentioned. Sometimes you GOT TOO give out some grace.

 

[KennethC]

So how do you know that the Joyce Meyers aren't spending more time preaching the word of God than fixing their homes? I'm sure Joyce has someone else put in her fancy toilet or whatever. This gives her plenty of time to serve the Lord and give to others that are in need.

Well first of all the position of a preacher is not just to give the Word of God as all believers in Christ are to do this in sharing the word.

The role of the preacher is to be the overseers of the rest of the flock and to keep them from wandering off in false doctrines and to help others when they are in need. They who seek this position are also told to be careful to make sure it is the right decision because those who preach the word will be held more accountable then others because they hold the salvation of others in their hands by what they teach.

For sticking to sound doctrine has an importance when it comes to salvation and the bible clearly shows this, as it shows that some will fall into apostasy teaching leading to their destruction.

Last who said anything about her fixing others homes ???

You are confusing and intermingling two separate situations as the fixing of homes was because ladylynn said she has to pay others to do it now and had nothing to do with rather Meyers does this or not. I mentioned how there are organizations out there that will help others at no cost !!!

Serving the Lord has more to it then just giving the gospel message !!!

 

[KennethC]

And you just did it again., I don't have anyone to do those things now nor the time to find them. My situation is not one you can put in a nice neat category with nice perfect even rows of this reason and that reason. You can't do that with people Kenneth. Each person is not the same, we each have different opportunities and different abilities and different sources. You have missed the point again;



============================================================================
Higher prices does not mean better quality all of the time as that is a lie that is feed to consumers to make them purchase their products.

Also I don't know about where you live but here in Missouri where I live we have church based and city based organizations that will come out and install things for disabled and senior citizens at no cost. They will also come in and winterize their homes and other choirs at no cost.

People need to look around and do more research then just think that things can not be done or gotten cheap any more !!!

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I'm "people" and I don't have time to look around and do even more research than I already have done. What people need to do is stop judging others according to their own circumstances. Kenneth., we do not share the same circumstances. And I've already been down some roads you just mentioned. Sometimes you GOT TOO give out some grace.

Just did what again ???

What I preach is God's grace along with the warnings of the bible, as you can not teach one without the other.

The Apostle Paul never threw one side of the new covenant teachings aside for the other as he constantly preached on both, and the majority of the warnings he gave was to believers and not unbelievers.

 

[VioletReigns]

Wow..... I posted my comment in the wrong Joyce Meyer's thread. I guess it's "Pick on Joyce Meyer" day.

Anyway, here's the comment I meant to post here:

I Corinthians 1:26-31

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.

Dorcas (Tabitha) was wealthy. She invested her time and money in helping the poor and making coats for them, too. In fact, when she died she was so loved and respected that the widows and other believers went to Peter crying and beckoning him to raise her from the dead. Peter prayed and Dorcas was raised up.

There's nothing wrong with being wealthy. But being wealthy is no barometer for worthiness. In fact, Jesus said it's hard for a rich person to not put faith in their wealth. Or to not be proud because of it.

So wealth isn't the issue. Who or what you put faith in is the issue.

 

[shotgunner]

Umm, yeah, "never sinning" and "not a sinner" is kind of an oxymoron, because if you never sin, then how is it possible to be a sinner? lol Sorry, shotgunner, but YES, even born again christians sin. Just because we're saved doesn't mean that we aren't still tempted to sin.

Maybe you don't understand what I am saying. All Christians sin, but that does not make them sinners. Christians aren't righteous by their works of righteousness, in the same way Christians aren't sinners by their sinning. Everything a Christian is, is based on Jesus and not on themselves.

I am the righteousness of God because I am in Christ Jesus, not because I never sin. Sinning doesn't make me a sinner because it doesn't remove me from Christ Jesus. Jesus paid for my sin.

 

[shotgunner]

Maybe you don't understand what I am saying. All Christians sin, but that does not make them sinners. Christians aren't righteous by their works of righteousness, in the same way Christians aren't sinners by their sinning. Everything a Christian is, is based on Jesus and not on themselves.

I am the righteousness of God because I am in Christ Jesus, not because I never sin. Sinning doesn't make me a sinner because it doesn't remove me from Christ Jesus. Jesus paid for my sin.

I'm quoting myself because I need to add that all I said above isn't a license to sin. It's actually the way to get free from sin. I will continue in sin if I remain a sinner saved by grace. I will sin because I see myself as a sinner. A man is as he see's himself in his heart.

The way to be free is to see myself as the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, by faith, regardless of what I look like. The more I see myself as righteous , the more I will act righteous. I will do the things a righteous man does.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

You have no problem with her million dollar lifestyle? That says plenty about you guys. Whoa!

Grace for Grace.

 

[shotgunner]

Come on now I know and understand what the Word of God says about being a sinner, and it says we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

To say you are not a sinner means you never sin but unfortunately we all do as we live in a corruptible body of flesh that can not inherit the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 15:50). This is why the Holy Spirit is sent to us to help guide us, strengthen us, and chastise us for correction because of our sinful behaviors we must put aside.

Lord Jesus presents us blameless and without spot when we stand before God because He covers our sins with His blood when we have repented and confessed them to Him for forgiveness. We are still sinners in flesh learning to walk away from our own righteousness and instead walk in His righteousness (Spirit).

The difference is that we learn not to live a lifestyle of continuous deliberate habitual sinning, but we can still give into temptations at times which is why we need times of refreshing Acts 3:19-21.

We are in a molding process as even the Apostle Paul showed the maturing in the faith that occurs as he showed when he was new to the faith of Christ his fleshly desires (carnal ways) warred with his new nature (Spiritual). Only by walking by the Spirit was there now no condemnation as walking by the flesh still keeps one under bondage.

See my posts #97 and #98