JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Thanks for the links, and I even provided proof myself from another thread a couple of days ago when he tried playing the Mr. Twister context card on me with the book of Hebrews, saying it does not apply. But then later tries to use it as proof text for himself when he quotes the same book and chapter, exposing how he constantly flip flops. Now we see he has caught himself up in own little tangled web of lies and deceit by twisting and misrepresenting the words of God. I think it's good to expose these reprobates for what they are, so no else who is new here will fall for their twisting and perverting of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And it is a distraction for those who want to discuss the Bible, but have to constantly hear people say that does not apply to us, that is out of context, that is only for the Jews, that's a bad translation, Jesus words are Old Testament, yada, yada, yada. Anything to actually believe in what Jesus said to do, and what is clearly written in scripture. It's all about misrepresenting and stealing the words of God by creating a distraction for them.

And I don't blame you for wanting to take a break from this constant warfare, and it is spiritual warfare, as Satan is trying to cast the Truth to ground and stomp all over it through these many deceivers. May the Lord rebuke them all who try to pervert and twist the gospel of Jesus Christ to support the false doctrines of men.

Thanks ISIT! This and your last post specially I needed to hear it was like the lightbulb went on concerning these things, just taking a couple of days, you never know, I just got here but I never went to bed last night and I have got to stop doing that cant burn the oil into the night like I used to and unaffected as I used to (feeling my age) lol and that compounds the problem and then I will pick up studying what is twisted not what is right (then) and Im done I need a break.

Can I contact you by PM? I need to add you to my freinds its not working without that for some reason thats why I had to have help

Peace, God bless you

 

[PollyAnna]

And I don't blame you for wanting to take a break from this constant warfare, and it is spiritual warfare, as Satan is trying to cast the Truth to ground and stomp all over it through these many deceivers. May the Lord rebuke them all who try to pervert and twist the gospel of Jesus Christ to support the false doctrines of men.

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.


Matthew 10:28

fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I know man, and am guilty of causing contention far too often myself, so I understand first hand, I mean this is Jesus we are talking about here, if we were not emotional about Him that would be a bigger problem. I just find myself concentrating more on being right and a lot less of getting to know someone. That's me I'm talking about obviously, but kind of the "style" of interaction I see here far to often really. I hate being part of it even more. Yes I agree there is a TRUTH in reality, and Jesus is that TRUTH, and we have to let Him show us who He is. That's all, it would just be cool if we could come together in respect and be able to have healthy conversation about God and Truth, but then again world peace would be nice too. It's just a thought I thought was worth putting out there.

it is odd. But I think the fact that it is attacked so much, not only by other supposed believers, but the world as a whole. more than any other religion, except for maybe the jews (the most hated people on earth) proves to me that it has some meat to it. If it was like any other religion. which is not really attacked.. I would wonder what satan was not out trying to attack it to destroy it. The fact it is attacked so brutally not only by other religions but other supposed "members" of the same body proves to me it is from God. Because satan would attack it viciously and mercilessly

 

[PeterJens]

so is this the spirit of love? funny..... I just don't see these words coming out of Jesus mouth

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
John 8:44-47

Jesus caught people lying and condemned it. The reason why we believers find this so hard
to believe someone who appears to be a believer would openly lie, continually and consistently
is it is such a tell tale of not be part of the Kingdom.

It is like light and darkness. I spend my life trying to be fair with people, understanding their
position and then discussing it. I may be harsh about the position if it deserves it, but it is
not personal.

It is why it was hard to take to even think people would lie and have no problem with it
spiritually. It again is night and day. You have lost the plot when you go down this road.

But it does not stop them because there is no respect or integrity here. I mean such things
would be legalism, and living in a lawless world, if you are sinning it is already forgiven.

But on a simple one to one level, I cannot trust someone like this with anything.
But it goes much deeper than this. The whole of scripture relies on the testimonies being
true, sincere and honest. So if the people with integrity are lying, why should anything else
be sound. And so you see the whole enemies ploy to bring everything crashing down.

And the lost will always fall for it, hook line and sinker.

 

[Jimbone]

it is odd. But I think the fact that it is attacked so much, not only by other supposed believers, but the world as a whole. more than any other religion, except for maybe the jews (the most hated people on earth) proves to me that it has some meat to it. If it was like any other religion. which is not really attacked.. I would wonder what satan was not out trying to attack it to destroy it. The fact it is attacked so brutally not only by other religions but other supposed "members" of the same body proves to me it is from God. Because satan would attack it viciously and mercilessly

I agree, and He told us it would be this way too. I mean I have heard people on the TV defending Islam and calling Mohammed the world first and best women's right activist. Yet if you mention the name of Jesus the world condemns you a hateful, un-Christ like , intolerant, enemy that doesn't even know the meaning of love or tolerance. That too points me to the conclusion that there might just be something to this Jesus fella.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus caught people lying and condemned it. The reason why we believers find this so hard
to believe someone who appears to be a believer would openly lie, continually and consistently
is it is such a tell tale of not be part of the Kingdom.

.

Then why do you do it peter. You have been in Christian chat for months now. Many of the things you continue to say about other believers are lies, and false truths, You slander people over and over again, And have been called out for it, and refused to even repent,

Then sit there and claim it is always everyone else who is doing the lying, you are innocent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, and He told us it would be this way too. I mean I have heard people on the TV defending Islam and calling Mohammed the world first and best women's right activist. Yet if you mention the name of Jesus the world condemns you a hateful, un-Christ like , intolerant, enemy that doesn't even know the meaning of love or tolerance. That too points me to the conclusion that there might just be something to this Jesus fella.

It is pretty amazing that all religions in the USA are given equal rights, that is unless you are a Christian, Christian rights are fading every day..

 

[followjesus]

I recently posted a thread about the process of fighting the good fight of faith, and how by the power of God's Spirit we can resist temptation and sin, and also bring every thought into the obedience of Christ, and also be purified in our hearts and minds by the same Spirit. But this thread like many of mine was met with great resistance and anger by those who follow a certain "cult" following and the teachings of Joseph Prince. Because I preach against sin and for an obedient walk of faith empowered by God I am usually falsely labeled as a "sinless perfectionist" or preaching D.I.Y. "self righteousness".

But here is the funny part, when looking through some of the false teachings of JP I found this quote of his....



What happened to the process of first being made a babe in Christ by spiritual rebirth, and the ongoing process of sanctification and purification, working toward that perfection by the trans formative power of God's Holy Spirit? This is why so many of his followers are so opposed to the idea of actually being set free from sin and heart purity, because that process has been totally removed in JP's teaching.

Basically JP's false teaching just says you need to have "right thinking" not that there is an actual spiritual transformation and rebirth that set's you free from sin and gives you the empowerment to purify your hearts and minds. His teaching is nothing more than declaring yourself as righteous, when in reality there was never a spiritual rebirth that took place.

So by not experiencing an actual rebirth in Christ that transform ones heart and mind, they just proclaim themselves to be "perfect" and "righteous".

That my friends is the true definition of "self righteousness" when a person declares themselves to be something they truly are not, their evil works prove they are not made righteous in Christ.

For those who want to know the many deceptions of this false teacher, here is the link...Joseph Prince exposed, false teachings of Joseph Prince

i remember kenneth copeland so many years ago teaching " I am the righteousness od God, in Christ" it isnt a new thing i think its pretty apparent that the church in the days of paul, peter and them were facing the same issues. they had the jews who wanted to force the Law on Christians, and they had the other side of that, which grace then becomes lawless or unconditional, or without law. there are so many warnings in pauls own writings that oppose the idea that a person can do no wrong because of Grace. in ways like " what, shall we go on sinning because we are under grace ( and then he makes a strong declaration) BY NO MEANS! saying, " in no way by any stretch of the imagination are you to think what im writing excuses how you actually live regarding your actions" he repeatedly says things just like that, to guard His own writings from being taken as without law, or you can do no wrong anymore ect. pater warns of it very clearly as many already know. saying " our dear brother pauls words are easily distorted by men to thier own destruction." upon that you have all of the instructions regarding your own actions in pauls letters. you have paul saying himself " I taught both jews and gentiles they must repent and turn to God with faith in Jesus" and " i taught both jew and gentile they should repent and display it with thier deeds"

its the problem of ommital that ruins what paul actually says because he does go back and forth in his wording of things. some want " imputed righteousness" to disregard all of thier present and future actions, but the very scriptures paul is referring to show plainly that abraham was credited to be righteous because He believed God word, YET, from that moment on, abreaham confirmed His belief by obeying everything God had told Him to do. faith and obedience are one, they are like a root, and a tree, Faith in God is the root, Jesus the tree, we the branch, our actions are the fruit.

some believe " im a new creation" the same refuse " created to do good works" " some believe Jesus is the vine, we are the branch, and the fruit is only what Jesus already did,...omitting " every tree that does noit bear good fruit, will be cut down, thrown into the fire." while thos who do produce good fruit, will be pruned so that they produce more fruit. Its about the fruit, WE produce because of the vine in which we remain, its not the fruit He produced beforehand, But His nourishment that enables us to bear good fruit. we are made new, so that we can live in that imputed righteousness, by acting in it. if faith doesnt produce repentance and obedience to Gods Word, the adjustment is in the doctrine we keep.


belief must be right, and the actions will follow.

 

[PeterJens]

Go ahead and mock all you want. It shows the spirit that is driving this behavior. This actually confirms the word I received from this morning devotions about people "mocking" and to just ignore it as the Lord said that He would be my rear defense. I'll trust Him.
2 Peter 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,
Bless you and have a good night!

Grace777 - as you are truly lost in all this mess, I doubt the Lord is going to be
your rear anything.

I suggest the heavens are really like brass to you and you do not know what to
do.

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”
Jeremiah 4:10

Whatever is going to befall you it is not going to be pleasant.

It is delusion to believe those faithful to Christ are following after their own lusts.
It is a lie and slander again, as if you are the innocent righteous party accused of
sinful behaviour when the opposite is true. This is how deep this delusion gets and
the web of lies you spin to make everything appear rosy.

There is no hope for you, you are just too far gone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

belief must be right, and the actions will follow.

You hit something here

Belief must be right (ie it is more than belief, it is literal faith)

Faith works, This one who has true faith, Actions will follow. It is not a question of "IF" like the workers want to preach, It is a matter of when and how much. (it will differ for every believer, as every believer has differing amounts of faith, and differing speeds of reaching maturity (some may never stop being babes, and continue to need fed mild. But they are still children)

As james said, We believe, we do well. But it is not enough, We need faith, Abraham had faith, how do we know? Abraham had works..

 

[PeterJens]

Then

EG - May you find peace and love, may your family know the grace bestowed freely
on sinner and saint in this world before judgement.

How can I respect or even listen to a liar like you? I love you as a father and as a human,
but you are so different to me, it is like night and day.

Openness, the heart being free, conquering evil. That is what it is to walk with Christ through
the cross. Burning passion, the knowledge of our failure and His overwhelming healing hand,
the glow of support within, the knowledge that the future is certain and eternal.

Satan and his works have no place here, but faithfulness, integrity, truth, a pure heart and
a steadfast will carry us through.

So to anyone who has these things, welcome brother and sister and rejoice for many are
our enemies and they come in many guises but Jesus keeps His own, Amen.

At times I cry at the beauty of how God the Father works everything together to show His
truths and literally burns up the excuses of man, not because he needs to, but because His
grace is so complete He has chosen to.

I spoke with muslims about love and the grace of God in sending Christ and the Lord taught
me and blessed me greatly. Here I have spoken about love and its centrality to God and the
gospel and the Lord has blessed me and taught me much. So Halleluyah, glory to the King.

 

[followjesus]

That's why he is called Mr. Twister. When I quote Hebrews to prove a point about those who can in fact fall away from the faith, he claims I am quoting scripture "out of context." Because Hebrews was for the Jews, which he has said over and over again, even now we see the multitudes of proof.

But when he wants to make a point out of the book of Hebrews concerning salvation, then it is "to us" Christians. Funny how that "context" thing works huh? You can see this constant flip flopping and twisting of words and meanings, and totally misrepresenting God's words in order to hold up a false doctrine and false teachings like OSAS, and the false grace teachings of Joseph Prince and the WOF movement.

Like I said before, this is handling the words of God deceitfully to promote the doctrines of men, and is to me just as bad as adding to and taking away from the words of God, which will cause one to receive the plagues mentioned in God's wrath.

But we now see how his twisting of the scriptures is being exposed even with proof, even though he still denies it.

if we all realize that when Jesus began His ministry, there ceased to be jew and gentile, and that the entre new testament is valid and applicable to any Christian, it would make reconciliation simple and hold us to the truth, provide accountability, and also Grace. Grace perfects Law, it doesnt omit it. and Jesus didnt abolish the law but perfected it for us, by removing the curse that comes through the law of sin and death in those of adams blood. all of the nt is for Christians, to learn, believe and apply. it doesnt matter if Jesus said something to A jew or a gentile. because in Christ there is no distinction as is repeatedly taught by paul. when a doctrine is false, it has to omit things and claim they do not apply. Just Like the first false doctrine "surely you will not die" he could have also said " surely that applies to only adam, Look who God said it to, its not for you eve" thats how deception worked then and also now. When God speaks, it always applies

 

[followjesus]

Grace777 - as you are truly lost in all this mess, I doubt the Lord is going to be
your rear anything.

I suggest the heavens are really like brass to you and you do not know what to
do.

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”
Jeremiah 4:10

Whatever is going to befall you it is not going to be pleasant.

It is delusion to believe those faithful to Christ are following after their own lusts.
It is a lie and slander again, as if you are the innocent righteous party accused of
sinful behaviour when the opposite is true. This is how deep this delusion gets and
the web of lies you spin to make everything appear rosy.

There is no hope for you, you are just too far gone.

there is always hope my friend, i think if a person can see this is kind of what His group does to other on a regular basis. possibly its the beginning of God opening eyes knowing that none of us are beyond correction and continued learning and growth. theres always Hope because of mercy and a willinglness to say " I am wrong, Jesus is right let me adjust my thinking because of Him" remember that paul began persecuting the church, and now is honored as a great apostle and revelator of the gospel of Jesus Christ. its too bad so many dont look at paul through the gospels, He has so many wonderful insights that do not omit a word of Jesus, but offer great understanding of them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - May you find peace and love, may your family know the grace bestowed freely
on sinner and saint in this world before judgement.

How can I respect or even listen to a liar like you? I love you as a father and as a human,
but you are so different to me, it is like night and day.

Openness, the heart being free, conquering evil. That is what it is to walk with Christ through
the cross. Burning passion, the knowledge of our failure and His overwhelming healing hand,
the glow of support within, the knowledge that the future is certain and eternal.

Satan and his works have no place here, but faithfulness, integrity, truth, a pure heart and
a steadfast will carry us through.

So to anyone who has these things, welcome brother and sister and rejoice for many are
our enemies and they come in many guises but Jesus keeps His own, Amen.

At times I cry at the beauty of how God the Father works everything together to show His
truths and literally burns up the excuses of man, not because he needs to, but because His
grace is so complete He has chosen to.

I spoke with muslims about love and the grace of God in sending Christ and the Lord taught
me and blessed me greatly. Here I have spoken about love and its centrality to God and the
gospel and the Lord has blessed me and taught me much. So Halleluyah, glory to the King.

I have peace my friend. My peace is in Christ..

But I guess as you said, I can not respect a liar such as yourself. All I can do is try to show you where you lie about my faith and my belief, and hope and pray you understand, But you don't So I guess there is no hope of us coming to any kind of agreement.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Can I contact you by PM? I need to add you to my freinds its not working without that for some reason thats why I had to have help

Peace, God bless you

Sure, just send it on over, will be looking for it. Peace and God bless

 

[Jimbone]

Grace777 - as you are truly lost in all this mess, I doubt the Lord is going to be
your rear anything.

I suggest the heavens are really like brass to you and you do not know what to
do.

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”
Jeremiah 4:10

Whatever is going to befall you it is not going to be pleasant.

It is delusion to believe those faithful to Christ are following after their own lusts.
It is a lie and slander again, as if you are the innocent righteous party accused of
sinful behaviour when the opposite is true. This is how deep this delusion gets and
the web of lies you spin to make everything appear rosy.

There is no hope for you, you are just too far gone.

I know it seems that way, but does not God need all kinds? Now I will get one thing strait, I honestly agree with the things you say more than what Grace777 does, I agree with you that words do mean something and that the we are to let God guide us to all truth right? Grace777 to me seems a very kind soul that just doesn't want to step on toes. A quality I personally could work on myself. I just think he doesn't think it our place to judge these things, when it absolutely is, but he is doing it out of love, as much as you are I guess it's safe to say. You are both doing this out of your passion for Truth, your passion for Jesus, or are you not? I know what it's like to get "paper blind", with text we can't really always "connect" on a true personal level. It's easy to get lost on paper, this whole world is lost in paper (digital paper). We can get lost to the point when we are not talking face to face, and eye to eye.

I actually do agree with a lot of what Grace777 says, enough to honestly feel he is a true brother in Christ, but now I see if I do love him what good would arguing every day with no headway ever made on either side? Does it not make more sense to try to get to know him better and gain more trust to share what God has taught you, and listen to what He has shown him? I think that would be much more effective personally even if there are things we disagree on, the one thing we know is the Spirit leads us to ALL truth right? Are we going to trust Him to work through us and in others?

See God made you the way you are for a reason, and I respect what your intentions are personally, but I have to be patient and kind with others I am finding out in life. Especially with your kids, an area I have been falling WAY short in, but I see I need to change more, I need to find a better way, and I want to because of such an awesome God that saved "a wretch like me". I just see very little benefit to this ongoing battle (there is even some here, but it could be better). I think our patience and love with each other would represent Christ so much better than what we display now. I'm not saying "stop", just find a better way. We know He can lead us to that way if we let Him. I honestly love all of you guy and want to try harder to get along and find a better way to discuss things that may actually cause us to grow closer to Him and to each other.

Just my thoughts.

 

[voiceinthewild]

The Bible is God's Word. There are about 30,000-40,000 Christian denominations in this world with about 40 major divisions of belief. Those who believe in God's Word and follow it, although they don't dot every i and cross every t, are going to be honored for how they've lived and what they've done in life if they were in Christ and obedient to God to the best of their ability.

I thought we were past the days of Fundamentalism? Jesus said of Herod, "Go and tell that fox..." No one thinks Jesus was actually referring to Herod as a literal fox, but when it comes to other areas of the Bible, it all has to be taken literally line upon line precept upon precept. When God gave the Israelites the Law of Moses, it was line upon line and precept upon precept. It was very ordered and direct and was to be followed perfectly. When God came to Earth as Yeshua Hamashiach, he spoke in parables and with illustrations. It was vague and metaphorical. The people hearing it at the time did not have it expounded to them and Jesus said it fulfilled Isaiah's words that they had eyes to see and ears to hear yet they didn't see or hear or understand what He was talking about.

Now, 2000 years later, we have 40+ major divisions of Christianity and all of them saying they have the truth. We should definitely go back to the Bible for the truth, but how we interpret that may divide us more than unite us. Is it more important to God that we have perfect religion than godly fellowship? This gets to the heart of the matter. Those who Paul condemned in his letters were preaching a different gospel. Want to know what that different gospel was? It was the gospel of "you have to be circumcised" "you can't eat unclean animals" "you have to keep a certain day for the Sabbath". He denounced all those things in favor of "My grace is sufficient".

When Paul would write to the Gentiles and preach to them, he kept his list of commands very simple: don't eat things sacrificed to idols, abstain from sexual immorality, etc. Those who think we have to go back and repent all over again every time we break the speed limit or say a cussword are going to waste a lot of their lives trying to be perfect when God's more interested in us following Him, trusting in Him, being saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves but it is a gift from God, being overcomers of the world, loving thy neighbor as thyself, taking up our cross, etc. Not starting a new religion and DEFINITELY NOT berating our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ because they believe differently than us - that is not the Holy Spirit's desire for His church. He wants us to be clean and full of love and full of grace and full of joy. This hateful spiritual cannibalism is usually caused by people who aren't out there in the world preaching the Gospel. Try getting off your internet high horse and go do some ministry in the real world and you'll find enough trials and tribulations that seeking spiritual perfection through absolute obedience to every letter of the law will be seen for the waste of time that it is. We aren't Levites.

 

[voiceinthewild]

On a personal note, I believe in post-tribulation rapture, a literal 1000 year millennium reign of the saints, I believe Christians all sleep in the grave after we die until the return of Jesus Christ and the first resurrection, I don't believe "Hell" is eternal suffering (I believe those cast into the Lake of Fire are burned up and destroyed forever from the presence of the Lord). Now, prove that I'm wrong on any of those accounts - and good luck, because everything you say, I have 15 years of studying and 2000 years of scripture to back up all my beliefs. The point is, I don't go out of my way to tell people they're wrong about what they believe in since most don't agree with me. I try to find a common ground of fellowship. [Disclaimer for those who might attack me for that: This only extends so far as long as they don't say things that are absolutely contradictory to the will of God as we understand it through the Bible.]

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jimbone said...

. I just see very little benefit to this ongoing battle (there is even some here, but it could be better). I think our patience and love with each other would represent Christ so much better than what we display now. I'm not saying "stop", just find a better way

Jimbone I remember a post awhile back when you stepped in and saw this same battle in an old thread of mine, and it is with a different group, but they hold to many of the same doctrines and tactics of this new hyper grace group. Remember this thread----->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/113972-abide-christ-sin-8.html

Just look at the first response to my OP in post #2 and you will get the idea just how this thread goes, (like so many others go even still today). But I remember what you said in post #150 here--->>>>

I also have to point out from and outsiders perspective the OSAS team comes off WAY more aggressive and more aggressive then the so called "works salvation side", who seem to use more scripture to back up there claims too BTW.

Jimbone, nothing has changed but the names and faces in this ongoing battle between the flesh and Spirit, between the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of a lie. This battle, and this enmity between the 2 ways of thinking will not end until the Lord returns and destroys that Wicked spirit that is at work in the world by the brightness of His coming. This wicked spirit is even at work in many christian denominations, churches, cults, and christian forums as is even displayed in these forums.

Only when that wicked spirit is finally removed from the world and the covering spirit from the minds of men, and when God's Holy Spirit reigns in the hearts and minds of men, only then will there finally be peace and unity.

 

[PeterJens]

Remember this thread----->>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/113972-abide-christ-sin-8.html

Just look at the first response to my OP in post #2

Thankyou for bringing this reminder. Some just hand out abuse without knowledge,
some claim to see and hand out abuse as well, but are twice blind.

It reminds me of fights in the playground at school.
Someone would insult someone else and blows would start.

Now if all you have are blows and no content, you can bring true wisdom down
to the gutter by starting a fight. The reader then just writes off both parties.

So if you actually are of the people of God, the enemy will always attempt to do
this.

A real weapon is pointing out the behaviour and lies that are done, because it
is this that is the fruit of their beliefs.

In their world it is always emotional manipulation and making people look bad.
It comes really hard on them when they loose the spiritual battle, the truth
battle and the emotional battle. But this is really the point. We are the light
of Christ.