judge not lest ye be judged

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tyke

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let me start by saying that I find this site nothing more than a gossip column. was reading negative comments about joyce meyer. first of all, you are not supposed to look toward man for your salvation. secondly, if you don't like what someone is saying or doing, turn away. third, you should pray for a soul if you think that they are lost, not judge or criticize them. talking about others in a negative way and putting their personal business out there is a sin. so what if she is teaching wrong or you think that she is. does that really have anything to do with your salvation? we all have free will as to the choices that we ourselves make. if people were half as concerned about their own doings as they are others, there would be a lot more people going to heaven. judge not lest ye be judged. I pray for all of you.
 
I have not read any of the blogs about Joyce Meyers to which you are referring. Perhaps some of the comments have been out of line; I don't know. However, I do want to address something you said:

……."so what if she is teaching wrong or you think that she is. does that really have anything to do with your salvation?"

So what if a teacher is teaching something wrong? So what? Are you kidding me?

First, it may have everything to do with someone's salvation. The Church is a body. If one part of the Church is involved with error, it affects that whole body. Granted, we need to do so in love. However, Paul essentially called the Galatians fools. Additionally, when he was referring to the judaizers—those who were leading the Galatians astray though their false teaching—he actually said that he wished that they would emasculate themselves! Sounds like judging to me.

Tyke, are you not in fact engaging in the same thing of which you are accusing others? Are you not judging others for judging others? It then follows that I am judging you, for judging those who judge others. It then also follows that anyone reading my post and states their disagreement with me is judging me for judging you for judging them that judge others. In fact, that may place you in the guiltiest position! Since you knew not to judge and did so anyhow, you have begun a chain of judgment for which you will be judged and will cause others to be judged.

It is all rather silly isn't it? Sometimes those most engaged in judging others often cloak it in an accusation that goes something like:

"You are judging others! The Bible says, "Thou shalt not judge!"

Tyke, you are wagging your finger at others while accusing them of wagging their fingers. Moreover, you are doing so while hiding under: "Thou shalt not judge!"

Tyke, did any of these people present arguments? If they did, then why didn't you address those instead of simply accusing them of judging? It is easy to accuse others of judging. It takes some thinking and studying to intelligently engage in the debate.

What you are proposing is simply a debate killer—and more than at any other time in history we need vigorous Biblical debate. If it becomes heated; too bad. There are souls at stake. More than at any other time in history, the Church is being hit with bad teaching from every direction. We need debate, we need arguments, we need heated discussions—what we do not need is anything that kills the debate.

In referring to a dispute between believers, Paul said:

……."Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!"
I Corinthians 6:3

Paul instructed Timothy:

I Timothy 3-7

…….As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

Paul instructed Timothy to COMMAND some not to teach false doctrines. How could Timothy do so if he did not perform a logical evaluation of their teaching?

As the Body of Christ we have an obligation to civilly discuss and debate Biblical teaching. It is not an option. It has everything to do with our salvation.

If a teacher is going publically teach something, then they had better be ready for a critique. If not, then get out of the kitchen.

Now back to Joyce Meyers—I am a fan of hers and I have been for years. I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. Her ministry has on many occasions edified me. With that said, she is involved with some very serious false teaching. She is in deep error on many subjects. That in itself is troubling, but the worst thing is that she will not accept correction from Biblical scholars—of which she is not.

Anytime someone will not subject him or herself to the rest of the Body for correction it is a problem.
 
hello faithman. first of all. I am not accusing anyone in particular of anything. I am not ignorant and know how to read. my point was quite simple. God is our only judge. I was not pointing my figure at anyone. as far as what others preach or say, in my opinion it doesn't matter. we are not to look to man for our answers, we are to look to God. that is what the bible is for. there is an answer to any question that you may have. seek and you shall find. even a little child can understand. if people are willing to just rely on what someone says or teaches or preaches, without studying for themselves, then that is their own fault and no one else. we are all responsible for our own actions and our own souls. not Joyce or anyone else. as far as debating someone or their views, it could instead be used as prayer time and time spent with God. we do not have to subject ourselves to anyone but Him. we only have to answer to Him. someday, we ALL will! so, if we spent have as much time with God as we do debating others, well? what other people do is not going to have any effect on your salvation. you have free will to read the word of God for yourself and make your own decisions with prayer for His guidance. That my friend, is all that we need. God bless.
 
one more thing faithman, ignorance is bliss. we don't need debates, we need God. that is the ONLY thing that is going to save anyone. do not coform yourself to the ways of the world. they are wicked!
 
tyke,

You said, "we don't need debates"

But the Bible says to contend for the faith:
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.​
Jude 1:3-4​

You said, "ignorance is bliss"

But the Bible says:
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.​
Hosea 4:6​

You said, "we don't need debates, we need God. that is the ONLY thing that is going to save anyone."

But the Bible says that Paul debated those in Athens and as a result some of them became believers:
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.​
Acts 17:16-18​

Later in the chapter, we can see the results of this debate. Many of those listening to and debating Paul became believers:
When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.”[SUP]33 [/SUP]At that, Paul left the Council. Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.​
Acts17:32-34​

tyke, at least those that you are criticizing are debating issues. You are simply wagging your finger at those who are contending for the faith. It seems as if you have a handle on your prayer life (why else would you criticize the prayer life those engaging in debate). However, perhaps you should add some Bible study to your prayer time.

You said in original post:

"I am no prophet, nor can I even tell you where these scriptures are……….."

Perhaps you should work on correcting your self-admitted problem before criticizing those who are actually obeying scripture by contending for the faith. If you are going to sit on the sidelines then fine. But don't criticize the players unless you are willing to get into the scrimmage.

Try cracking open a Bible occasionally and doing some study. Every pagan on the planet can quote the, "Judge not that you be not judged" passages. How are you any different? You have admitted that you don't know where that passage can be found but you think you are in a position to criticize those actually debating scripture?

Sister, my challenge to you is to get in the Bible and see if what I said is true. If not, I will be willing to listen to any logical Biblical argument that you present. What I have said to you may sting a little bit but my hope and prayer for you (yes we debaters do break down and pray occasionally) is that it will prompt you to begin studying the scripture. How can you contend for the faith if you don't know the scripture?
 
Wow, peace to you both, you both are right and you both are wrong? Whatever we do, all the Glory must go to Christ. There are times within the Body that a cow has to be called a cow and look at Jesus, I am not all to sure I would feel comfortable if he came knocking at my house door, after all who is without sin, and Jesus always named the sin, if we go to someones house we would be offered a cup of coffee or tea, if Jesus visited he would most likely not be offered the same, and why is that, because of quilt. Oh are we sinners, saved by the Blood but still sinners, and we had better be very careful as to who we point fingers at, Satan just might tear it off. I thank God for His wisdom that we can not see the Spiritual world around us, we live in the middle of a war, it is raging in our homes, at our places of work, everywhere that battle is raging and the price is souls, human souls being lost, Gods Word is a light, even a sword, but do we have the strength to weld it? My train of thought derailed, there were no survivors. Be blessed and why not, onward Christan soldiers.
 
just want everyone to know that my intentions were never to argue with anyone. just because I may not know where a particular scripture is, doesn't mean that I have never studied the bible. I grew up having my grandparents and my mom reading scripture to me every night. I may not know where it is but I did listen and I know what it says. you know, if any man have an ear, let him hear. isn't that the idea? anyone can read a book but if they don't absorb what they read, then its kind of pointless. that's just like believing in God, and knowing him are two different things. I know who I am in Christ and ii know that he loves me. not trying to be rude but Gods opinion of me is the only one that matters. I can handle others criticism. I take it with a grain of salt but not everyone can do that. it doesn't matter to me what others think of me and it shouldn't matter to anyone else either. we are not here to please others, we are here to please God. no one is perfect and we all have our opinions but in the end, our opinions of others aren't going to take us to heaven. yes I have my opinions too but its not worth arguing about. no two people are going to agree on everything but there is no reason to be nasty about it, right? its not the situation that you are in, its how you react. Amen!
 
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