Just wondering if there are any Jehovahs Witnesses here?

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I see you insist very much on Hell as a fiery pit and a torturing place; I propose you something else: how about Hell is awfull not because of the little devils who fries us like chickens, but because we never get to contemplate God and to be in communion with Him?
I really don`t understand what you mean by "God made us human why would we not stay human". I don`t see the logical connection between what I`ve said and what you`ve said.
God made us in his image and likeness. Meditate a little on the word in bold.
 
Simona25 said:
I see you insist very much on Hell as a fiery pit and a torturing place; I propose you something else: how about Hell is awfull not because of the little devils who fries us like chickens, but because we never get to contemplate God and to be in communion with Him?
I really don`t understand what you mean by "God made us human why would we not stay human". I don`t see the logical connection between what I`ve said and what you`ve said.
God made us in his image and likeness. Meditate a little on the word in bold.
Click to expand...

Ok if your definition of Hell is that its a place that lacks God then how is it different from death

But God made Adam and Eve Human did he not?
you said something bout souls and stuff honestly i dont remember atm
 
Kia123 said:
Ok if your definition of Hell is that its a place that lacks God then how is it different from death

But God made Adam and Eve Human did he not?
you said something bout souls and stuff honestly i dont remember atm
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Hell is the result of fallen angels (and eventually, our) own choice, our free will.
Death is a very complex word in christianity and may have both positive and negative conotation. Obviously, you mean the negative one; but still, it can mean that we are alive (in body) and spiritually dead (because of our sins that are seen like an ontological disease), or that our body is death, but we received Life while we were living in our earthly body. Which one of these two deaths seem more devastating for you. From God`s point of view, the answer is clear.
The struggle of a christian is to reach the likeness of God, to become what he is ment to become -he is a sinner, but he`s asked to be a saint- and to partake God`s love, light and peace. With every sin that we make our body and soul gets sicker and sicker (remember that sin is a disease for the soul) and we grow in the likeness of the devil, instead of that of God, we chose Hell.

He did created Adam and Eve human, yes. What about that?:)
 
Simona25 said:
I see you insist very much on Hell as a fiery pit and a torturing place; I propose you something else: how about Hell is awfull not because of the little devils who fries us like chickens, but because we never get to contemplate God and to be in communion with Him?
I really don`t understand what you mean by "God made us human why would we not stay human". I don`t see the logical connection between what I`ve said and what you`ve said.
God made us in his image and likeness. Meditate a little on the word in bold.
Click to expand...
The bible says it is eternal punishment. Maybe instead of listening to your Eastern pope, you can start reading scripture? I think that would help to improve what you believe.
 
Simona25 said:
Anyone before Jesus wasn`t condemned to Hell (understood as a place of doom). Before Jesus there wasn`t salvation so people whether righteous or unrighteous would go in Hell (understood as a place of death).
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You've got the OT system mangled.

This is a good summary with scripture citations that should help you.
Click here
 
Simona25 said:
1. God knows everything, he is omniscient, but his omniscience doesn`t predestine or predetermine.
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Scripture begs to differ.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love [SUP]5 [/SUP]he[SUP][b][/SUP] predestined us for adoption to sonship[SUP][c][/SUP] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. [SUP]7 [/SUP]In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, [SUP]9 [/SUP]he[SUP][d][/SUP] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, [SUP]10 [/SUP]to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him we were also chosen,[SUP][e][/SUP] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.



Regardless of what you believe it means, the word is used, and we can't deny it.

2. Hell wasn`t created for the purpose of torturing man as well as man wasn`t created for the purpose to be judged and ultimately sentenced to heaven or hell. Hell exists due to the rebellion of the angels. Lucifer has been cast away from Paradise and hell is defined as a place where God is absent, the place of evil.
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It isn't the original intent per se, but man will be punished eternally there for rebellion and allegience to satan.

3. We weren`t eternal, only God is eternal; but we were created immortal. When God forbade Adam and Eve from eating the fruit, he warned them that in the moment they eat, they will die, which means, they will become mortal. Your body dies, but not your soul; but you will resurrect in your body, in a transfigurated body, depending on your life, if you were saint or sinner.
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The death is also a spiritual death, Original Sin.


4. A day for God is like a thousand days and a thousand days are like a day. It is hard for us to comprehend life outside of the time and space coordonates that we have.
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Not quite the purpose of that verse. The basic point is that God isn't really effected by time.
 
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jimmydiggs said:
The bible says it is eternal punishment. Maybe instead of listening to your Eastern pope, you can start reading scripture? I think that would help to improve what you believe.
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Maybe you should start to read what I say, not what you assume I say. I didn`t say that Hell wasn`t eternal punishment. I ment that if we chose not to sin, we shall do so out of love for God and not out of fear for Hell.
 
jimmydiggs said:
You've got the OT system mangled.

This is a good summary with scripture citations that should help you.
Click here
Click to expand...

I`m sorry, what did I mangled? The fact that I implyed that before Jesus Christ, humans weren`t judged and sent to Hell, or the fact that I`ve used (on purpose) the same noun (Hell) for two different realities? Should I have used "Champs-Elysees"?
 
jimmydiggs said:
Scripture begs to differ.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love [SUP]5 [/SUP]he[SUP][b][/SUP] predestined us for adoption to sonship[SUP][c][/SUP] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. [SUP]7 [/SUP]In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, [SUP]9 [/SUP]he[SUP][d][/SUP] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, [SUP]10 [/SUP]to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him we were also chosen,[SUP][e][/SUP] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.



Regardless of what you believe it means, the word is used, and we can't deny it.


It isn't the original intent per se, but man will be punished eternally there for rebellion and allegience to satan.


The death is also a spiritual death, Original Sin.



Not quite the purpose of that verse. The basic point is that God isn't really effected by time.
Click to expand...


All humans, with no exception, are called or "predestined for adoption to sonship". When I said that God is omniscient, but he doesn`t predetermine, I was talking about the unfortunates that end up in Hell, not in Heaven.
But than again, if you only pick words from what I say, regardeless of the context, you only proove that you are not an honest person. I hope you don`t mutilate the Bible in the same way.

I wanted to show this girl, Kia, that God is love, not cruelty. I tried to give her a new perspective, another approach on God. I`m not that kind of christian that hits people with the Bible in the head and tell people to repent or else, they`ll burn in Hell.
 
Simona25 said:
All humans, with no exception, are called or "predestined for adoption to sonship".
Click to expand...
So you're a universalist?

When I said that God is omniscient, but he doesn`t predetermine, I was talking about the unfortunates that end up in Hell, not in Heaven.
Click to expand...
Wrong again.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.


But than again, if you only pick words from what I say, regardeless of the context, you only proove that you are not an honest person. I hope you don`t mutilate the Bible in the same way.
Click to expand...
Says the one who is Eastern Orthodox? Your church doesn't believe the bible, but rather believes that you must save yourself. That God cannot save you.

I wanted to show this girl, Kia, that God is love, not cruelty.
Click to expand...
God is love, but we do not get to define love. He is the very definition of love.

I tried to give her a new perspective, another approach on God.
Click to expand...
There is only one approach to God, not multiple approaches.

I`m not that kind of christian that hits people with the Bible in the head and tell people to repent or else, they`ll burn in Hell.
Click to expand...

Jesus said to repent.
[h=3]Mark 1:14-15[/h]Jesus Announces the Good News

[SUP]14 [/SUP]After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. [SUP]15 [/SUP]“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”
 
"So you're a universalist?"

I don`t know what that means. I only know that God doesn`t predestine people to do bad, cowardly things (like selling and betraying their friends) and, surely, He doesn`t predestine to hell.

"Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

You chop the Bible and instead of humbling yourself and trying to understand it as a whole, you chose the verses that best fit your mentalitarian prison.
God does not wish the dead of the sinner because He loves the sinner, but hates the sin; God wishes the sinner to come back home.

"Says the one who is Eastern Orthodox? Your church doesn't believe the bible, but rather believes that you must save yourself. That God cannot save you."

Wow... and you make this incredibly false statement based on...?

"There is only one approach to God, not multiple approaches."

Well, apparently some people see God an evil God. To these people I do want to give them a different approach. Do you even bother to understand the context in which I use some words? Or you just react automatically, something like Pavlov`s dog, to some specific "trigger" words regardeless of their meaning and of what has been previously said?

"God is love, but we do not get to define love. He is the very definition of love."

I try to express God`s love, in my own limited way of comprehension; I don`t try to define it.


 
jimmydiggs said:
Even those who say the bible is not true will quote the bible.
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so if it works for your answer its the truth and anything in the bible against it isn't wow i pray for you there is only one core fact in the bible the rest is to be interpreted so no man can say for shur the way the lords judgment works or how hell works for that matter to say you know for shur is like saying you know how god thinks and i'm not even gonna go there
 
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