Justification by faith or works?

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I was wondering what issue you guys were disagreeing in regard to John 9:31 so I did a little Bible study on it. As it turns out, the once blind - and now seeing man that got healed of his blindness was making a general statement that God does listen to sinners.

So I looked for verses in the Old Testament that the healed man was referencing in order to make that statement.

Psalm 66
18
If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 15
8 The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked,
but the prayer of the upright pleases him.

Proverbs 15
29 The Lord is far from the wicked,
but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

These are not all the verses that could have been referenced. So the healed man said John 9:31 as a generality based on verses like the one above. In this sense @Ouch is correct.

Since these verses in the OT were general truths - it leaves room for God to listen to a sinner who is coming to repentance and wishing to turn to Him for salvation. In this sense @wattie is correct.


I don't think both of you need to fight over this - you're both correct.


🚞

I don't battle with HIS word I just share it.

Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!

In Psalms 66, it's clear the word "IF" I had sin in my heart.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 15, he DON'T like sinners just the upright.

Proverbs 15:8 The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked,
but the prayer of the upright pleases him.

Provers 15, The Lord IS FAR from the (sinners) wicked, BUT hears the righteous.

Proverbs 15:29 The Lord is far from the wicked,
but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

You say,
"it leaves room for God to listen to a sinner who is coming to repentance and wishing to turn to Him for salvation."

GOD is NOT the author of confusion, so I ask you how do you get that out of those scripture's?

All three of those verses backs up John 9-31.

Like in Acts 10, GOD heard Cornelius verse 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

This sinners Cornelius and faimly, come up for a memorial before God.

His prayers did nothing BUT HE sent them an angel to tell them how to be saved.

End result, JESUS filled them with the Holy GHost and they were baptized in JESUS name.

Which means even if HE does hear your hands are tied until YOU do something to be saved.

The big lie we face today, say this prayer and your saved, being baptized in for show has so many people heading down the wrong path is SAD. Of course then we have saved by grace or faith alone, then Paul preached a different message etc.

I sure am humble, but and don't follow men but HIS word only so if I'm wrong I sure will repent!

I will add, I like your style.
 
I don't battle with HIS word I just share it.

Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!

In Psalms 66, it's clear the word "IF" I had sin in my heart.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 15, he DON'T like sinners just the upright.

Proverbs 15:8 The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked,
but the prayer of the upright pleases him.

Provers 15, The Lord IS FAR from the (sinners) wicked, BUT hears the righteous.

Proverbs 15:29 The Lord is far from the wicked,
but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

You say,
"it leaves room for God to listen to a sinner who is coming to repentance and wishing to turn to Him for salvation."

GOD is NOT the author of confusion, so I ask you how do you get that out of those scripture's?

All three of those verses backs up John 9-31.

Like in Acts 10, GOD heard Cornelius verse 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

This sinners Cornelius and faimly, come up for a memorial before God.

His prayers did nothing BUT HE sent them an angel to tell them how to be saved.

End result, JESUS filled them with the Holy GHost and they were baptized in JESUS name.

Which means even if HE does hear your hands are tied until YOU do something to be saved.

The big lie we face today, say this prayer and your saved, being baptized in for show has so many people heading down the wrong path is SAD. Of course then we have saved by grace or faith alone, then Paul preached a different message etc.

I sure am humble, but and don't follow men but HIS word only so if I'm wrong I sure will repent!

I will add, I like your style.


I'm just saying that the verses he referenced are general truths but God will listen to the sinner who isn't saved yet but is seeking Him for salvation.

I was in this category when I wasn't saved yet, but I wanted to get to know God. And He responded! He led me to people doing a Bible study and in turn I received the Bible. From there, I started to read His word and gave me understand. I also learned to pray and He answered my requests and questions.

So, you see, it had to start some where. I was still a sinner, but because I wanted to get to know God, He listened to me and allowed me to get to know Him. I really liked getting to know God and I got saved that way!


🚞
 
I'm just saying that the verses he referenced are general truths but God will listen to the sinner who isn't saved yet but is seeking Him for salvation.

I was in this category when I wasn't saved yet, but I wanted to get to know God. And He responded! He led me to people doing a Bible study and in turn I received the Bible. From there, I started to read His word and gave me understand. I also learned to pray and He answered my requests and questions.

So, you see, it had to start some where. I was still a sinner, but because I wanted to get to know God, He listened to me and allowed me to get to know Him. I really liked getting to know God and I got saved that way!

I understand and have to agree with you.

He speaks to us no matter how far we are goon.

BUT as you said he leads us, AND if we don't follow his lead we will stay lost.

I try to get people to understand that just saying a prayer does not get your sins removed or has JESUS fill you with his spirit.

SO MANY DIFFERENT belives out there, like you get the Holy Ghost the moment you believe.

In any case he talks to us but WE HAVE TO OBEY that.

Kinda a fine line, he talking to us does not mean he hears our prayer since he knows our hearts when he tells us what to do he knows if you will or not.

When he lead you to people, what would have happened if you didn't go?

As for me I was not raised in a church home, when I got my drivers licence I started going to chruch.

Why? He must have been leading me it was my choice to go or not, I went.

It was a say this prayer and your saved church baptized in JESUS titles for show, so was still not saved.

later in life I was still seeking and found out the truth and got saved, now on a mission to help others see. When JESUS filled me with HIS spirit like he did HIS disciples in Acts 2:4 it changed my life.

🚞
 
I'm just saying that the verses he referenced are general truths but God will listen to the sinner who isn't saved yet but is seeking Him for salvation.

I was in this category when I wasn't saved yet, but I wanted to get to know God. And He responded! He led me to people doing a Bible study and in turn I received the Bible. From there, I started to read His word and gave me understand. I also learned to pray and He answered my requests and questions.

So, you see, it had to start some where. I was still a sinner, but because I wanted to get to know God, He listened to me and allowed me to get to know Him. I really liked getting to know God and I got saved that way!


🚞

Would have been easier if I said, there is a big difference between HIM talking to us, and us taking to HIM. LOL.
 
I did share scripture how to get rid of our sins.

Being baptized in JESUS name to get rid of our sins are just 1 part of being reborn, we also need to believe, repent and JESUS to fill us with HIS spirit.

We have GOD'S word and our opinion, so no language barrier if we ONLY use HIS word, BIG languages barrier if we use everyone's own opinion.

What do you think of the scripture I shared?

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?

I have. But the group described as not having received the Spirit have things to consider..

Were they in a time when the Holy Spirit hadn't been given as the Comforter, and therefore not yet saved?

Were they actually individually saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but weren't aware the Holy Spirit was in them?

Were they saved, individually indwelled, but hadn't become a NT church with the Holy Spirit 'in their midst'?
 
I have. But the group described as not having received the Spirit have things to consider..

Were they in a time when the Holy Spirit hadn't been given as the Comforter, and therefore not yet saved?

Were they actually individually saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but weren't aware the Holy Spirit was in them?

Were they saved, individually indwelled, but hadn't become a NT church with the Holy Spirit 'in their midst'?

Were they in a time when the Holy Spirit hadn't been given as the Comforter, and therefore not yet saved?
I think you're referring to Acts 19? If so the the first people to received the Comforter or the Holy Ghost was on the day of Pentecost as JESUS promised. So that was app 20 before Acts 19. Since JESUS says in John 3:5 we need both to be reborn then no they were not.


Were they actually individually saved and indwelled by the Holy Spirit, but weren't aware the Holy Spirit was in them?
No, couldn't have been without the Holy Ghost again JESUS says we need both in John 3:5. When a person is filled they for sure will know it, there will be evidence of speaking in tongues. Acts 2:4, 2:33, Acts 10 and 19. Mark 16:17

Were they saved, individually indwelled, but hadn't become a NT church with the Holy Spirit 'in their midst'?
Again Acts 19? If so how could they have been saved in they have not gotten rid of their sins and received the Holy Ghost.

I will add those in Acts 19 were with John and baptized by him only.

Did I answer all of your questions?
 
I don't battle with HIS word I just share it.

Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!

In Psalms 66, it's clear the word "IF" I had sin in my heart.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 15, he DON'T like sinners just the upright.

Proverbs 15:8 The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked,
but the prayer of the upright pleases him.

Provers 15, The Lord IS FAR from the (sinners) wicked, BUT hears the righteous.

Proverbs 15:29 The Lord is far from the wicked,
but he hears the prayer of the righteous.

You say,
"it leaves room for God to listen to a sinner who is coming to repentance and wishing to turn to Him for salvation."

GOD is NOT the author of confusion, so I ask you how do you get that out of those scripture's?

All three of those verses backs up John 9-31.

Like in Acts 10, GOD heard Cornelius verse 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

This sinners Cornelius and faimly, come up for a memorial before God.

His prayers did nothing BUT HE sent them an angel to tell them how to be saved.

End result, JESUS filled them with the Holy GHost and they were baptized in JESUS name.

Which means even if HE does hear your hands are tied until YOU do something to be saved.

The big lie we face today, say this prayer and your saved, being baptized in for show has so many people heading down the wrong path is SAD. Of course then we have saved by grace or faith alone, then Paul preached a different message etc.

I sure am humble, but and don't follow men but HIS word only so if I'm wrong I sure will repent!

I will add, I like your style.

If you were the couselor of a physchiatric patient who was trying to come down from their mental illness, or more relevantly,
a father who was trying to recover a positive bond with his son; would you turn them down if they made an effort to agree with you, in spite of their blemish?
God is a living soul who witnesses everything and considers them with a heart, not a computer that calculates with 1s & 0s.
 
The fact that they can be burned up means they are recorded and do matter 1 Corinthians 3:15 they are they are proof that we are living faith in action. works alone will not save anyone. their are people that will never be able to save anyone yet they are saved though grace of our lord Jesus Christ who died on the Cross for out sins. Every Christian should understand the story of the man and his vineyard Matthew 21:33-46
 
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If you were the couselor of a physchiatric patient who was trying to come down from their mental illness, or more relevantly,
a father who was trying to recover a positive bond with his son; would you turn them down if they made an effort to agree with you, in spite of their blemish?
God is a living soul who witnesses everything and considers them with a heart, not a computer that calculates with 1s & 0s.
I would do all I could, but I would also have rules.

GOD has rules and gave us his rule book so we could know them.

We have the story of the prodigal son who went away and came back and was accepted with open arms.

So we will say he was saved then lost and repented and got saved again!

The the saddest verses in HIS word,
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

JESUS sending people TO HELL who though they were saved and doing HIS will, so they were NEVER SAVED as JESUS told them I NEVER, NEVER KNEW YOU.

After verse 23 JESUS speaks on FOUNDATION.

Foundation is the key, and so many people today just follow man with the man-made sinners prayer or the others I mentioned AND THINK THEY ARE SAVED.

To end GOD has rules and HE himself has to follow them, we have two choices OBEY HIS rules or be Hell bound.
 
Who mentioned work?

The question is What do WE have to do to get rid of our sins?

So now another question, if he don't hear sinners,

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

How do we confess them if HE DON'T HEAR US, and we are saved?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

MAJOR CONTRADICTION!!

BUT if you look at that verse AFTER we have been reborn it makes since.

OT, when they had their sins removed they had to make a sacrifice once and year to have their sins removed.

TODAY when we are baptized in JESUS name we get rid of our sins and after that all we need to do is repent and confess them to JESUS and he will forgive them.

What do you think of these two verses?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Thats the question of the OP.
Faith or work. And I statet faith!
What I think about this 2 verses? Its questinable to take them out of the context.
 
Still, there are some people who cannot give charity, by disability or simply lack of occasion, and must rely on their hope from within to carry them.
Works are not greater than faith, as works are justified by faith. "For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." Faith comes first before works.

That first statement does not have to be true. I'm on SS Disability and so I stay home a lot. So is there a lack of occasion? Not really. I still have to go out into the world for errands to live, so God creates occasion. Don't be so short sighted.

Works aren't really greater than faith but they complement faith by demonstrating without words that God is real and that he is Justified by his works. Works perfect faith.

James 2:14-26
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also..../KJV
 
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Thats the question of the OP.
Faith or work. And I statet faith!
What I think about this 2 verses? Its questinable to take them out of the context.
How can they be taken out of context?

The message is very clear.

The only way they are taken out of context is one has to add, remove or reareange words to suit their needs. THEN IT'S NO LONGER HIS WORD but yours. That goes for ALL OF HIS WORD.

If anyone things that failh alone saves I ask how does faith along remove our sins?

But you put faith in JESUS and you trust him for the words that come out of his mouth and get baptized in HIS name you are trusting HIS to remove your sins. That is faith.

Anyway, I'm just in the seed bussines you do you.

Your walk is between you and HIM one day we will all be kneeling in front of HIM and he will be judging us by HIS book.
 
I don't battle with HIS word I just share it.

Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!

In Psalms 66, it's clear the word "IF" I had sin in my heart.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;

Proverbs 15, he DON'T like sinners just the upright.
.

The word is plan ....
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We are all sinners.. so if it is simply "Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!" It would mean God hears all of us or none of us... but there is a condition..
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

We have nothing to make us good enough.

Once we sin we are a sinner and the only way to be free from sin is the forgiveness of God which means God must listen.

God listens to the repentant sinners and forgives them but He can not listen to the sinners that hold the sin as their god. They love the sin more then they love God.

The difference is Who we serve.

The repentant sinner has forsaken the sin and given themselves to follow Jesus.

The unrepentant sinner has cherished the sin over God and is not truly sorry.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit......Rom 8: 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.....Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The sinner is not condemned by God IF..If they walk in the Spirit.

The sinners SINS are only forgiven when God hears, so God does hear the sinner but only if the sinner is sincere and sorry.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
 
I agree, but beleiving is faithfulness.

If you read the one and only book that claims to be written to the lost in order to be saved, you'll probably find more clarity on the subject. It is John.

30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Chapter 20

If you are seeking, read the book in KJV with a pen. Then underline every time the word "believe"(s, the, d) is used. You'll get a significantly meaningful number. This Traditional Text is the one that has the correct number.
This term is the proper response that a lost person uses to be saved.

Much is written in the parables and beatitudes ABOUT salvation to God's people. Much is written about rewards, joy and blessings. It is better to look for clear statements written to those clearly lost than figurative speech that some were intentionally not going to understand. Jesus purposely concealed much teaching which was really intended for His disciples.

John's gospel is the key to clearly understanding this topic.
 
Still, there are some people who cannot give charity, by disability or simply lack of occasion, and must rely on their hope from within to carry them.
Works are not greater than faith, as works are justified by faith. "For I desire mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." Faith comes first before works.
Think about how a beleiver in a country where Christianity is strictly persecuted may be saved.
Faith without works isn’t actually faith is the thing James is saying . saying I have faith doesn’t compare to acting in faith

Paul also says “ faith works by love “

Real saving faith acts in the ways of god
 
The word is plan ....
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

We are all sinners.. so if it is simply "Either GOD does hear sinners or he don't!!" It would mean God hears all of us or none of us... but there is a condition..
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

We have nothing to make us good enough.

Once we sin we are a sinner and the only way to be free from sin is the forgiveness of God which means God must listen.

God listens to the repentant sinners and forgives them but He can not listen to the sinners that hold the sin as their god. They love the sin more then they love God.

The difference is Who we serve.

The repentant sinner has forsaken the sin and given themselves to follow Jesus.

The unrepentant sinner has cherished the sin over God and is not truly sorry.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit......Rom 8: 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.....Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The sinner is not condemned by God IF..If they walk in the Spirit.

The sinners SINS are only forgiven when God hears, so God does hear the sinner but only if the sinner is sincere and sorry.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

So we have HIS rule book and our oppinion.

For a fact we are all sinners, we are born in it the questions is how do we get rid of it?

You say,
"God (listens to the repentant sinners and forgives them) but He can not listen to the sinners that hold the sin as their god. They love the sin more then they love God."

Show me a verse "God listens to the repentant sinners and forgives them"

Acts 3:19 Reptent and be converted that you sins may be blotted out.


HOW DO YOU DO THAT? After you repent how do you get converted to get your sins blotted out?

Luke AMEN.
 
That is not hard to answer if we believe the Bible; because the very passage that talks about faith and works tells us the answer. James 2:22. It’s BOTH. Faith and works work together. That’s what the scripture says. That’s what James spends 24 verses trying to tell us. Every illustration, every example he uses is to show how faith and works must go together.

The first illustration is about a brother or sister being naked and hungry. He says it does no good to just TELL them to be warm and filled. You must DO SOMETHING. You must “work”. He concludes in verse 17, faith is DEAD if it doesn’t have works.

The next example is about the demons. He shows that they have faith ( believe) but they have no works, so obviously are not going to be saved. He concludes, again, after this example in verse 20 that faith without works is a DEAD faith and won’t save us anymore than it will save the demons.

The next example is Abraham. We all know Abraham was a man of faith. But he was JUSTIFIED ( saved) when he offered his son Issac as a sacrifice. That just means when he OBEYED God’s instructions. When he DID what GOD told him to do. When he performed the “work” God instructed. He concludes that argument with verse 24. “ You see then that by works a man is justified and NOT by faith only.

The next example is Rahab. She also was saved by works ( justified) when she DID something—when she hid the spies. He concludes thus example and the entire passage with “For as the body without the Spirit is DEAD, so faith without works, is DEAD also.”

This is clear Bible teaching. Nothing hard or complicated about this. It takes BOTH—faith and obeying God’s commandments—whatever He has told us to do, to be saved. Just believing in Jesus is no better than the demons. And men and preachers who say “JUST BELIEVE! That’s ALL you have to do.” Are preaching the doctrine of demons.
 
That is not hard to answer if we believe the Bible; because the very passage that talks about faith and works tells us the answer. James 2:22. It’s BOTH. Faith and works work together. That’s what the scripture says. That’s what James spends 24 verses trying to tell us. Every illustration, every example he uses is to show how faith and works must go together.

The first illustration is about a brother or sister being naked and hungry. He says it does no good to just TELL them to be warm and filled. You must DO SOMETHING. You must “work”. He concludes in verse 17, faith is DEAD if it doesn’t have works.

The next example is about the demons. He shows that they have faith ( believe) but they have no works, so obviously are not going to be saved. He concludes, again, after this example in verse 20 that faith without works is a DEAD faith and won’t save us anymore than it will save the demons.

The next example is Abraham. We all know Abraham was a man of faith. But he was JUSTIFIED ( saved) when he offered his son Issac as a sacrifice. That just means when he OBEYED God’s instructions. When he DID what GOD told him to do. When he performed the “work” God instructed. He concludes that argument with verse 24. “ You see then that by works a man is justified and NOT by faith only.

The next example is Rahab. She also was saved by works ( justified) when she DID something—when she hid the spies. He concludes thus example and the entire passage with “For as the body without the Spirit is DEAD, so faith without works, is DEAD also.”

This is clear Bible teaching. Nothing hard or complicated about this. It takes BOTH—faith and obeying God’s commandments—whatever He has told us to do, to be saved. Just believing in Jesus is no better than the demons. And men and preachers who say “JUST BELIEVE! That’s ALL you have to do.” Are preaching the doctrine of demons.

Hi :) myself I just believe...John 3:16-17. There was just the Torah then no NT and you just didn't carry it in your ..hmm no pockets lol. Its as He said in Samuel...its the heart He looks at. He said who so ever believes.....these signs shall follow them that believe...He said even though you do not believe me.. believe the works so that you may know and believe the Father is in me and I in Him. He also said I tell you the truth anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done.

So I wonder to my self ...who truly believes in Him. The works He did we do as Peter and John said once ... "why look at us as if we did this by our own power its that name faith in that name that healed this man." So many excuses man will give as to why they don't have those works but He has not Change. You notice the "works" I talked about because its what came to mind.

As for demons the word of God does not as far as I know believe in Jesus for whom he was talking to saying you believe in GOD you do well for even the demons believe. I will say not to go far off here they knew when they saw Christ " have you come to torment us before our time". They knew what was coming yet we debate argue about Rapture as if we have no clue....were better? Yeah is He coming in your life time? I watch this guy just because each week he talks about all the "signs" showing any moment. Not that I agree or not he watches waiting always thinking about Jesus. So works? Hmm its just in me and you but the flesh fights it so sometimes its hard to see if your doing works... that go hand in hand with Him... I am grafted in because I believe in Him.. I fall I repent I keep going.. Oh how much He loves us
 
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That is not hard to answer if we believe the Bible; because the very passage that talks about faith and works tells us the answer. James 2:22. It’s BOTH. Faith and works work together. That’s what the scripture says. That’s what James spends 24 verses trying to tell us. Every illustration, every example he uses is to show how faith and works must go together.
We are justified "accounted as righteous" by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified "shown to be righteous" by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context.

The Greek word for justified is "dikaioo":

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered - fits the context of James 2:24.
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Dikaioo Meaning - Greek Lexicon | New Testament (NAS)

So, James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

The first illustration is about a brother or sister being naked and hungry. He says it does no good to just TELL them to be warm and filled. You must DO SOMETHING. You must “work”. He concludes in verse 17, faith is DEAD if it doesn’t have works.
Not work to become saved but work to show that our faith is genuine. How about a little context. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

The next example is about the demons. He shows that they have faith (believe) but they have no works, so obviously are not going to be saved. He concludes, again, after this example in verse 20 that faith without works is a DEAD faith and won’t save us anymore than it will save the demons.
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. That is why they are not going to be saved. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have, and only genuine believers do have.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. That would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree, and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

The next example is Abraham. We all know Abraham was a man of faith. But he was JUSTIFIED ( saved) when he offered his son Issac as a sacrifice. That just means when he OBEYED God’s instructions. When he DID what GOD told him to do. When he performed the “work” God instructed. He concludes that argument with verse 24. “ You see then that by works a man is justified and NOT by faith only.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6 (also see Romans 4:2-3) many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." (James 2:21) He was shown to be righteous.

The next example is Rahab. She also was saved by works (justified) when she DID something—when she hid the spies. He concludes thus example and the entire passage with “For as the body without the Spirit is DEAD, so faith without works, is DEAD also.”
In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) You have the cart before the horse.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26) Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28) It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*

This is clear Bible teaching. Nothing hard or complicated about this. It takes BOTH—faith and obeying God’s commandments—whatever He has told us to do, to be saved.
Salvation by faith AND works is a false gospel. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) Don't confuse what God tells us to do in order to be saved with what God tells us to do after we have been saved.

Just believing in Jesus is no better than the demons. And men and preachers who say “JUST BELIEVE! That’s ALL you have to do.” Are preaching the doctrine of demons.
The difference is the demons merely believe "mental assent" that there is one God (James 2:19) but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) The latter involves faith, trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. Believers are then made alive together with Christ and created in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Good works follow salvation through faith as the demonstrative evidence of authentic belief/faith.

It sounds too simple for you, which is why you mock salvation through faith, not works. You want to work for salvation and boast in your works. Why don't you tell Jesus that believing in Him (John 3:15,16,18; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) is not enough, which means the OBJECT of our belief (Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection) was not enough to save us. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)
 
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It sounds too simple for you, which is why you mock salvation through faith, not works. You want to work for salvation and boast in your works. Why don't you tell Jesus that believing in Him (John 3:15,16,18; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) is not enough, which means the OBJECT of our belief (Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection) was not enough to save us. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)


She didn't say any this. Don't falsely accuse her. Read her post over again.


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