Justification by Works

[Arvir]

Ephesians 2:10 says that we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works that we SHOULD walk in them, not must or else. Doing good works is not forced or legalistic for genuine Christians.

Jesus said:
"If ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:14-15

And it is written:
"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:1-7

According to these verses, are we not obliged to do good? and unless we do, we won't be saved?

 

[TMS]

How can "not of works" in Eph 2:9 mean no works all categories all when the very next verse shows one cannot be a Christian remaining saved without doing good works? If one is to be a Christian and saved then he MUST do good works and has no choice in this matter. One that has become Christian yet does not do good works will be lost, Mt 25.

It is plain. Good works do not save us. but good works are important and will be a result of faith. but get the order right
Works = Faith or Faith = Works. Stop dividing them they go hand in hand with each other. But Faith needs to come first
I like to think (believe, have faith) that i can do good works because Christ lives in me and I'm dead. No boasting on my part, It's Christ's power. By having faith we come closer to the source of all good works and we become like Jesus the perfect example. Works show our faith because faith leads to good works. When we stand before the judgement of God will our works be good enough? NEVER.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said:
"If ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matthew 6:14-15

Unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a true believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others.

And it is written:
"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name’s sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

This is part of the first of the seven letters in Revelation 2-3. These were letters from the Lord to seven local churches in Asia Minor. Clearly the Lord wanted the members of the church at Ephesus to repent--to change their attitudes regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (v 4b). "Repent and do the first works" (v 5b). Works of love no longer characterized the church at Ephesus. The preceding (vv 2-3) and following (v 6) verses make it clear that this church was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended the Ephesian church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers in the Ephesian church. However, "doctrinal purity and loyalty can never be a substitute for love." The question in the verse before us is the identification of the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if it did not repent? The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light-bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city now wrapped in the mantle of Islam. The light of the church has indeed been removed there.

But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Revelation 2:1-7

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

According to these verses, are we not obliged to do good? and unless we do, we won't be saved?

Who is it that forgives men their trespasses? The saved or lost? Who overcomes by faith? The saved or the lost?

 

[Arvir]

It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others.

It is written:
"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." Matthew 18:23-35

 

[mailmandan]

It is written:
"Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.

So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." Matthew 18:23-35

The picture illustrates God's total forgiveness when dealing with our sins at the cross. Our debt has been paid in full by Jesus. The contrast in verse 28, where the same servant is unwilling to forgive his fellow servant a debt of a hundred denarii is deliberately presented as a hideous hypothetical situation. As unbelievable as this action would be, that is how unbelievable it would be for a genuine Christian, who has been forgiven such a huge debt, to be unforgiving of others with such a small debt. In the story, such an unforgiving servant is called a "wicked" servant because no genuine born again Christian would have such an unforgiving heart.

A Christian’s forgiveness of others is based on an understanding that he has been forgiven by God’s undeserved and unearned mercy. Jesus warned that God cannot forgive us if we do not have humble and repentant hearts and we reveal the condition of our hearts by the way we treat others. Hearts that are humble and appreciate God’s grace gladly forgive others from a heart that is saved, but proud and revengeful hearts with no true repentance, that don't forgive in such small mattersrs, reveal a heart that is unsaved and don't receive God's forgiveness.

Those who are unforgiving from the heart show that they are unfitted to receive God’s forgiveness. Failure to forgive in such a small matter shows that this person has not understood God’s grace and forgiveness, hence the term, "wicked servant," which is not descriptive of a genuine believer. The fact that this person is called a servant does not necessarily mean they are saved. The Jews were referred to as "the Lord’s servants" - You are my witnesses, says the LORD, my servant, whom I chose.. - Isaiah 43:10, but they were not all saved.

 

[mailmandan]

For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
(Rom 4:3-6)

Satisfied?

Amen! Romans 4:3 - "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness." Verse 6 - just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:11 - And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also.

Romans 4:22 - And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness." 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

*So where is this righteousness from?

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

 

[crossnote]

The reason why I quoted that passage is because Jesus said that they should be watchful, because he has not found their works perfect. Then he said, Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. Therefore, they should do, and unless they do, he will come upon them as a thief.

Here is another passage:
Luke 10:25-28
And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


There is a difference between the works of the law, and the works by which faith is made perfect. The letter to the Galatians refer to this law:
"And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." Galatians 3:17
What is this covenant, this law that was 430 years after?
"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free." Galatians 4:21-31

And these works of the law include Circumcision, but not works whereby faith is made perfect. And, "in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." Galatians 5:6

Arvir,
Let's simplify this because you seem to be forgetting what the Good News (Gospel) is all about or never knew and are just guessing.
How much good works must a person 'do' until they are assured of their salvation?

 

[Arvir]

How much good works must a person 'do' until they are assured of their salvation?

All that he or she is obliged to do.

 

[FancyNancy]

All that he or she is obliged to do.

I don't see anywhere in scripture where we are obliged to do any good works for the assurance of salvation. That kind of teaching is a bogus gospel message, and so very far removed from the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Arvir]

I don't see anywhere in scripture where we are obliged to do any good works for the assurance of salvation.

Jesus obliged someone, as it is written:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:17-25

 

[psychomom]

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.


But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.(Eph 2:1-10)

try reading it again.

 

[crossnote]

Jesus obliged someone, as it is written:
"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:17-25

You seemed to miss the point. Jesus poured on the law to the young man in order to break him of his self sufficiency.

Notice the totally different reaction of the disciples.

Even after Jesus' answer you gave, the disciples still wondered 'Who can be saved?'

And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? v26

Notice Jesus did not give further commandments seeing His disciples 'got it' but rather said..

And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
(Mar 10:27)

 

[Pray_without_ceasing]

You are in error about this. Did you ever read this?

Works here means works all categories. No works at all, whether they be works of the law or works of faith, has any place in justification, since it is all about being spiritually raised from the dead to life with God. This is God's work alone, without our help. We are but mere passive recipients of an undeserved pardon. As a fruit of having been justified, having been regenerated, works of faith follows. And these works are motivated but nothing else than love of God for having justified us, having saved us.

Of a truth, dear neighbour, it is people like you whom Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God had in mind when he beseeched those that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Saying, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

May I ask you, why do ungodly sinners imagine that they are saved by grace through faith when they have never obeyed the gospel of God? The epistle to the Ephesians is not written to those that be dead in trespasses and sins. It is written to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus.

The Ephesians became saints when they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. As it is written, whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And again, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This is how the Ephesians were saved by grace through faith; and that not of themselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For they are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that they should walk in them. As it is written, where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

And until you obey the gospel of the grace of God, then you shall have your part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Because the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

Repent thou therefore, and be converted, that thy sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. Wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The difference between the works of the law and the works whereby faith is made perfect.

The difference in Moses words and Christs words Old Testament and new

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. ( fulfillment of Old Testament in Christs life death and resurrection )

(New Testament)

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-

Paul the “apostle of grace “

“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

These things are good and profitable unto men.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:8

the good works Christ teaches are brotherly love helping someone else in need , not judging and condemng people by thier sins of the law , but loving and embracing them by the love of Christ who loves sinners and calls us to repentance

eye for an eye is Moses word , forgive offense and not retaliating is Christs word

unhappily married ? Get divorced and remarry is Moses word , never divorce but for adultery is Jesus word and don’t remarry an adulteress is Jesus word.

keep any oath you make to God or else is Moses word , never make an oath or sware by anything to God is Jesus word.

Witness against sinners is Moses word , forgive and prompt sinners to repent privately without witnessing to others , then later if they won’t repent take one witness in private and try to prompt repentance then later if they won’t tell the church leaders so they can try , is Jesus word

Christian’s follow Christ and his doctrine not Moses

that’s the difference in the works of the law and the good works we are born in Christ to learn and do