Justification in Romans

[Jeremiah33v3]

Correct. It doesn't mean eternal, and neither aeonous life nor aeonous damnation mean eternal life or eternal damnation.

aiOn means an age whose end is undetermined. Aeonous life is a life whose end is undetermined, unknown, unspecified. Aeonous damnation is a damnation whose end is undetermined, unknown, unspecified. We have aeonous life because it is a kind of life that can last for as long as we are trusting in Jesus and God, and there is no predetermination of when that might be. And aeonous damnation is damnation that can last for as long as we are refusing to trust in Jesus and God, and there is no predetermination of when that might stop.

Instead of worrying about whether we can lose our salvation, how about living aeonous life now by trusting Jesus and God, and how about learning how to recover aeonous life when we fall from grace, by putting our trust back upon Jesus and God. That way we would learn to experience and appreciate the gracious mercy of God, and we would see no need to stress out about whether we can lose our salvation, because if we do, we can be reconciled again through the Lord Jesus Christ and putting our faith back upon Him.

God speaks English better than you pretend you can speak Greek.

Ever Lasting means EVER LASTING.

Eternal means ETERNAL.

Crazy concept I know, that God can speak English... All you modern day nicolaitans pretend God is ignorant of English and cannot speak it.
The Holy Ghost wrote the KJV and He speaks PERFECT English.

Eternal life, means ETERNAL LIFE.

 

[GWH]

God speaks English better than you pretend you can speak Greek.

Ever Lasting means EVER LASTING.

Eternal means ETERNAL.

Crazy concept I know, that God can speak English... All you modern day nicolaitans pretend God is ignorant of English and cannot speak it.
The Holy Ghost wrote the KJV and He speaks PERFECT English.

Eternal life, means ETERNAL LIFE.

Yes, and eternal means everlasting--and the Greek scholars who translated various versions of the Bible agree with this meaning.

 

[Jeremiah33v3]

Yes, and eternal means everlasting--and the Greek scholars who translated various versions of the Bible agree with this meaning.

Your greek scholars can go back to the pits of hell where they get their wisdom from.

My book is written by God Himself.
1 Thessalonians 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

1 Peter 1:21

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God speaks English better than ANYONE pretends they can speak greek.

 

[PaulThomson]

The Holy Ghost wrote the KJV

The King James version, like all translations, contain some errors.

 

[Komentaja]

Your greek scholars can go back to the pits of hell where they get their wisdom from.

My book is written by God Himself.

Are you aware that the KJV translators were scholars as well? They were baby baptizing anglican scholars.

Cultic KJV-onlyism is reeking off your highly inflammatory comments and derogatory language. This is the Ruckmanite fruit on display.

 

[GWH]

Your greek scholars can go back to the pits of hell where they get their wisdom from.

My book is written by God Himself.
1 Thessalonians 2:13


1 Peter 1:21


God speaks English better than ANYONE pretends they can speak greek.

No, all current Bibles are translations by scholars.

However, even if we had the very words written directly by God without human agency,
our interpretations would not be infallible, because only God is inerrant.
(Thus, blessed are the humble/teachable :^)

 

[PaulThomson]

Believers have life forever. Because it started at a point in time.....The Moment of belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The age of forever life NEVER ends, but it had a beginning.

• "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16)
• "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20)

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, in order (hina) that everyone (pas) believing (pisteuOn) into Him (eis auton) should not perish (mE apolEtai), but should have (all' echEi) everlasting life (zoEn aiOnion) .

The participle pisteuOn is a present participle, which means the referent is presently doing the action. They are believing into Jesus.

It is those who are believing into Jesus who are secure from perishing while, or for as long as, they are believing in Jesus. The corrallary here is that if one stops believing into Jesus, one may indeed perish. Had John used the aorist participle, the implication you are inferring would be reasonable, because he would be saying -
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, in order (hina) that everyone (pas) having believed at some point in time i.e. after believing episteusen) into Him (eis auton) should not perish (mE apolEtai), but should have (all' echEi) everlasting life (zoEn aiOnion) .

The difference in sense is the difference between being secure while believing (as we have in John 3:16) and being secure after believing (as you would like John to be saying).
You are interpreting an ambiguous English translation and are taking one possible emphasis of the English. But what is a possible emphasis of the English, is not a possible emphasis of the Greek that it purports to be interpreting.

The same issue arises in your second citation.

Gal 2:20
I have been crucified (sunestaurOmai) with Christ: nevertheless I am living (zO) ; yet not I, but Christ is living (zEi) in me: and the life which I now am living (zO) in the flesh I am living (zO) by the faith of the Son of God, the one having loved (ho agapEsantos) me, and having given (paradontos) himself for me.

Paul was walking in the Spirit when He wrote this. He could not write it in the flesh. He was living by the Spirit of Christ who was living in him. Is it appropriate to take this affirmation by a man walking in the Spirit and living the life of Christ and applying it to myself if I am walking in the flesh as a carnal Christian? I think not.

 

[donnyscot]

The moment you Confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.

Romans 10:9


Did you know SHALT is indicative tense? This is a tense that exist in "the Greek and hebrew" but not in english!

But fear not, God gave us it in the KJV!
The indicative tense says IN THE PRESENT MOMENT FACT!

So, if you right now confess that Jesus is THE LORD.
And if you right now believe in your heart the God raised Him from the dead...
YOU WILL BE SAVED RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Are you afraid that you don't believe enough? DO NOT WORRY! I have a prayer for you, it worked for me, it worked for this man, and it will work for you too!

There was a man who had a son who was devil possessed.... And he asked Jesus to cast out the devil... And well... I'll just let God tell you the rest of the story.
Mark 9:23-24


You see that? The man prayed for faith and it was GIVEN! Because faith is a gift from God.

So if you have issues believing that God raised from the grave or ANYTHING... Pray that prayer [/

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, in order (hina) that everyone (pas) believing (pisteuOn) into Him (eis auton) should not perish (mE apolEtai), but should have (all' echEi) everlasting life (zoEn aiOnion) .

The participle pisteuOn is a present participle, which means the referent is presently doing the action. They are believing into Jesus.

It is those who are believing into Jesus who are secure from perishing while, or for as long as, they are believing in Jesus. The corrallary here is that if one stops believing into Jesus, one may indeed perish. Had John used the aorist participle, the implication you are inferring would be reasonable, because he would be saying -
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, in order (hina) that everyone (pas) having believed at some point in time i.e. after believing episteusen) into Him (eis auton) should not perish (mE apolEtai), but should have (all' echEi) everlasting life (zoEn aiOnion) .

The difference in sense is the difference between being secure while believing (as we have in John 3:16) and being secure after believing (as you would like John to be saying).
You are interpreting an ambiguous English translation and are taking one possible emphasis of the English. But what is a possible emphasis of the English, is not a possible emphasis of the Greek that it purports to be interpreting.

The same issue arises in your second citation.

Gal 2:20
I have been crucified (sunestaurOmai) with Christ: nevertheless I am living (zO) ; yet not I, but Christ is living (zEi) in me: and the life which I now am living (zO) in the flesh I am living (zO) by the faith of the Son of God, the one having loved (ho agapEsantos) me, and having given (paradontos) himself for me.

Paul was walking in the Spirit when He wrote this. He could not write it in the flesh. He was living by the Spirit of Christ who was living in him. Is it appropriate to take this affirmation by a man walking in the Spirit and living the life of Christ and applying it to myself if I am walking in the flesh as a carnal Christian? I think not.

you are confusing a very simple topic of scripture ,thank The Lord that I never had any say on myself being saved and thank the Lord that He has promised that the work He started He will complete

 

[HeIsHere]

I see the debate between endless security and potential apostasy as a non-event. It does not matter to me which is true. i would not stop worshipping and serving God if either one were not true. My worship and service of God is because of His character demonstrated by Jesus Christ, not because I needed a promise of endless security before i would serve Him. Nor because I needed the threat if endless torment to do so.

Aeonous life is enjoying all of the things in the present that Jesus was given and gave to us, so that we would know God and Jesus. whom God sent. (John 17:3) This can be done whether one believes in OSAS or not. Aeonous life is liveable now, whether we believe in OSAS or not.

Yes aenous life is livable now and this is a part of the good news.

Having stated this, saved is saved, is an essential doctrine to be "lived in" since it speaks to the very heart of what Christ Jesus accomplished on our behalf.

I simply cannot understand the Christian walk without this essential foundational belief.... everything flows from it.

 

[HeIsHere]

I agree that we should pray for benefits to come on earth, and to the extent that people are godly earthly life can be rather heavenly, but because everyone dies, "not perish" must mean not be destroyed after Judgment but instead inherit eternal life/heavenly existence.

I used to view it this way as well, but if "aenous life" is a present reality for believers then perish must also me the reality for non-believers. imo

 

[donnyscot]

I used to view it this way as well, but if "aenous life" is a present reality for believers then perish must also me the reality for non-believers. imo

The whosoever are the elect in Christ
The number the Father gave the son from before the foundation of the world
Those who are called are the whosoever in John 3:16
Whoever are called (by the irresistible call of the Lord )
Are then justified by the blood of Christ
those who are justified WILL be Glorified (made perfect on Christ

The process between justification and glorification is sanctification
In which we are getting moulded into the likeness of Christ through the sifting and refining work
Of the Holy Spirit

That’s what the Bible teaches whatever translation you read
God doesn’t cause confusion
It’s very simple process

 

[GWH]

I used to view it this way as well, but if "aenous life" is a present reality for believers then perish must also me the reality for non-believers. imo

This is a case where both-and logic needs to affirm both that eternal life begins at the moment of salvation and continues after death.

Thus, "perish" when referring to non-believers must mean destruction of the soul will occur in hell after justice is achieved per the following Scriptures:

JN 17:12, “None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.”

RM 9:22, “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?”

GL 6:8a, “Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction.”

PHP 3:19a, “Their destiny is destruction.”

2THS 1:9a, “They will be punished with everlasting destruction.”

2PT 3:7, “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

Right?

 

[HeIsHere]

Are then justified by the blood of Christ
those who are justified WILL be Glorified (made perfect on Christ

Agree on this part for sure.

 

[HeIsHere]

This is a case where both-and logic needs to affirm both that eternal life begins at the moment of salvation and continues after death.

Thus, "perish" when referring to non-believers must mean destruction of the soul will occur in hell after justice is achieved per the following Scriptures:

JN 17:12, “None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.”

RM 9:22, “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?”

GL 6:8a, “Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction.”

PHP 3:19a, “Their destiny is destruction.”

2THS 1:9a, “They will be punished with everlasting destruction.”

2PT 3:7, “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

Right?

Are you an annihilationist?

 

[donnyscot]

This is a case where both-and logic needs to affirm both that eternal life begins at the moment of salvation and continues after death.

Thus, "perish" when referring to non-believers must mean destruction of the soul will occur in hell after justice is achieved per the following Scriptures:

JN 17:12, “None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.”

RM 9:22, “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?”

GL 6:8a, “Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction.”

PHP 3:19a, “Their destiny is destruction.”

2THS 1:9a, “They will be punished with everlasting destruction.”

2PT 3:7, “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

Right?

This is a case where both-and logic needs to affirm both that eternal life begins at the moment of salvation and continues after death.

Thus, "perish" when referring to non-believers must mean destruction of the soul will occur in hell after justice is achieved per the following Scriptures:

JN 17:12, “None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.”

RM 9:22, “What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?”

GL 6:8a, “Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction.”

PHP 3:19a, “Their destiny is destruction.”

2THS 1:9a, “They will be punished with everlasting destruction.”

2PT 3:7, “By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.”

Right?

God refashions and does not annihilate anything ,
The new heaven and the new earth will come from the refashioning of the old
Just like the Christian will be refashioned from the old into a glorious new ,
There is no such proof of annihilation in the scripture

God never uncreates what He has created

 

[PaulThomson]

Agree on this part for sure.

We are already being glorified, being changed from glory to glory as we gaze at Jesus Christ..

 

[HeIsHere]

We are already being glorified, being changed from glory to glory as we gaze at Jesus Christ..

Indeed.

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2 Cor. 3:18

 

[donnyscot]

We are already being glorified, being changed from glory to glory as we gaze at Jesus Christ..

No glorification is an ACT
Just like being called
Adopted
Justified
Are all acts
sanctification is that process which is not an act as it’s a process

We cannot be made perfect (Glorified )until we are dead and that act of Glorification takes place in the twinkle of An eye and present with the Lord

 

[PaulThomson]

No glorification is an ACT
Just like being called
Adopted
Justified
Are all acts
sanctification is that process which is not an act as it’s a process

We cannot be made perfect (Glorified )until we are dead and that act of Glorification takes place in the twinkle of An eye and present with the Lord

2Co 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day the same vail is remaining no being taken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is being done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16
Nevertheless when he should start turning to the Lord, the vail is being taken away.
2Co 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are being changed now from glory to glory. We are becoming more glorious as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are being glorified even now. I'm not sure we need ever reach a limit to our potential glory.

 

[donnyscot]

We are already being glorified, being changed from glory to glory as we gaze at Jesus Christ..

2Co 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day the same vail is remaining no being taken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is being done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16
Nevertheless when he should start turning to the Lord, the vail is being taken away.
2Co 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are being changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

We are being changed now from glory to glory. We are becoming more glorious as we grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are being glorified even now. I'm not sure we need ever reach a limit to our potential glory.

to be fully glorified we need to be free from sin as sin cannot enter into Glory,glorification is that act when we are made perfect in Christ

We will not be made perfect as long as we are this side of eternity

Do u get what I mean ?