Justification in Romans

[HeIsHere]

sanctification is that process which is not an act as it’s a process

The believer is positionally sanctified (set apart) in Christ Jesus.

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

 

[donnyscot]

The believer is positionally sanctified (set apart) in Christ Jesus.

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

We’ve been sanctified
We’re being sanctified
We will be sanctified

 

[PaulThomson]

to be fully glorified we need to be free from sin as sin cannot enter into Glory,glorification is that act when we are made perfect in Christ

We will not be made perfect as long as we are this side of eternity

Do u get what I mean ?

I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me to be based on presuppositions rather than biblical evidence. It leans on an interpretation of "perfect" in scripture meaning "without imperfections", which is what it means fir us in English.However, the Greek word teleios translated as "perfect" actually means "mature".

Phl 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, G5046 be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Phl 3:15
Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

Were there any saints in Paul's day who were without imperfections? And yet some were called perfect/teleioi/mature even then. Is there any reason to presuppose that perfection/maturity in the age to come must mean lacking absolutely all imperfection?

 

[PaulThomson]

The believer is positionally sanctified (set apart) in Christ Jesus.

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
Hebrews 10:10

Yes. The believer "is having been sanctified/set apart" to do works that God has prepared beforehand for us to do. And s/he continues to be being set apart, for the rest of his/her life, whether s/he does those works or not. S/he slso need to be setting herself apart for those works him/herself.

But being set apart for something does not mean we are mature/teleios.

 

[HeIsHere]

We’ve been sanctified
We’re being sanctified
We will be sanctified

Meaning it is a done deal.

We live outwardly what God has given us inwardly.

 

[donnyscot]

I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me to be based on presuppositions rather than biblical evidence. It leans on an interpretation of "perfect" in scripture meaning "without imperfections", which is what it means fir us in English.However, the Greek word teleios translated as "perfect" actually means "mature".

Phl 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, G5046 be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Phl 3:15
Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

Were there any saints in Paul's day who were without imperfections? And yet some were called perfect/teleioi/mature even then. Is there any reason to presuppose that perfection/maturity in the age to come must mean lacking absolutely all imperfection?

I understand what you are saying, but it seems to me to be based on presuppositions rather than biblical evidence. It leans on an interpretation of "perfect" in scripture meaning "without imperfections", which is what it means fir us in English.However, the Greek word teleios translated as "perfect" actually means "mature".

Phl 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, G5046 be thus minded: and

Phl 3:15
Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

Were there any saints in Paul's day who were without imperfections? And yet some were called perfect/teleioi/mature even then. Is there any reason to presuppose that perfection/maturity in the age to come must mean lacking absolutely all imperfection?

If we’re been conformed into the image of the Christ this side of eternity then we are Just men being made perfect and will be sinless and perfected in eternity,
you do understand that it is sin that is the issue here

What state was Adam in paradise before the fall ?

 

[Mem]

Yes. The believer "is having been sanctified/set apart" to do works that God has prepared beforehand for us to do. And s/he continues to be being set apart, for the rest of his/her life, whether s/he does those works or not. S/he slso need to be setting herself apart for those works him/herself.

But being set apart for something does not mean we are mature/teleios.

The idea isn't that we are set apart as some sort of trophy on His mantle, but rather that we distinguished by being clothed with His mantle.

 

[donnyscot]

Yes. The believer "is having been sanctified/set apart" to do works that God has prepared beforehand for us to do. And s/he continues to be being set apart, for the rest of his/her life, whether s/he does those works or not. S/he slso need to be setting herself apart for those works him/herself.

But being set apart for something does not mean we are mature/teleios.

King James Bible
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Meaning it is a done deal.

We live outwardly what God has given us inwardly.

100 percent

 

[PaulThomson]

If we’re been conformed into the image of the Christ this side of eternity then we are Just men being made perfect and will be sinless and perfected in eternity,
you do understand that it is sin that is the issue here

What state was Adam in paradise before the fall ?

Imperfection/immaturity/teleios is not sin. Sin is essentially distrusting God. Adam was trusting God before the fall.

 

[PaulThomson]

No glorification is an ACT
Just like being called
Adopted
Justified
Are all acts
sanctification is that process which is not an act as it’s a process

We cannot be made perfect (Glorified )until we are dead and that act of Glorification takes place in the twinkle of An eye and present with the Lord

There will undoubtedly be a quantum leap in maturity when we are adopted at the resurrection. But we will keep on learning more beyond the resurrection.

 

[donnyscot]

Imperfection/immaturity/teleios is not sin. Sin is essentially distrusting God. Adam was trusting God before the fall.

Will you have free will in Eternity and will your will have any danger of choosing something that cannot exist on perfection ?
As in sin ?

 

[donnyscot]

There will undoubtedly be a quantum leap in maturity when we are adopted at the resurrection. But we will keep on learning more beyond the resurrection.

I agree that we will be learning
For eternity ,we don’t even know a pin prick this side of eternity what awaits those who are His

 

[mailmandan]

Agree on this part for sure.

Amen! In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.

 

[GWH]

Are you an annihilationist?

I believe that destruction means/is synonymous with annihilation, and that it occurs after justice is achieved along the lines of "eye for eye" so that souls such as Hitler and Stalin will suffer in hell for a very long time and Satan almost forever, since he tempted them to do the evil they did.

 

[GWH]

God refashions and does not annihilate anything ,
The new heaven and the new earth will come from the refashioning of the old
Just like the Christian will be refashioned from the old into a glorious new ,
There is no such proof of annihilation in the scripture

God never uncreates what He has created

I believe that God is just, so that punishment in hell is just, and I shared Scriptural evidence (in post #79) to support how just damnation might be done if souls are uncreated or destroyed after justice is achieved along the lines of "eye for eye".

If you have a better idea, please share it.