Keystone passes Senate

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#21
Still be a lot cheaper than oil!
Maybe! and.............maybe not...........once in place, BIG SOLAR could begin to manipulate the Energy Market to raise prices on the consumer.........then the Solar Futures Market would get involved, and the price of Solar Energy could go through the roof!


..........and then there is Alaska, where the sun don't shine for six months of the year........
 
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Sirk

Guest
#22
Maybe! and.............maybe not...........once in place, BIG SOLAR could begin to manipulate the Energy Market to raise prices on the consumer.........then the Solar Futures Market would get involved, and the price of Solar Energy could go through the roof!


..........and then there is Alaska, where the sun don't shine for six months of the year........

Might be getting into a little bit of conspiracy here but it is my understanding that Tesla was advocating for a DC electrical grid while Edison was for AC. DC is stored easier and is cheaper to make....hmmmmm.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#23
Until you suffocate, like Beijing.
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Right, but not everyone wants to do that.
I've jogged in that. Tasted it in my mouth at times, too. That's when I found out that unfortunately there are times when exercise is unhealthy for you. The Chinese just don't have the same technology nor the governmental oversight when it comes to regulating their factories. If they did, there'd be a lot more blue skies in their year.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#24
Does not California have some of the strictest emission regulations/laws in the world? How is that working out for them?

Anyone know which Industry is the 2nd largest polluter in the State of California?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#25
Might be getting into a little bit of conspiracy here but it is my understanding that Tesla was advocating for a DC electrical grid while Edison was for AC. DC is stored easier and is cheaper to make....hmmmmm.
Tesla also figured out how to draw electricity from the earth's gravitational field and transmit it through the air.....funny how he died and his research just disappeared.......

Kind of like the men who in the 50's, 60's and 70's that figured out how to get from 100 to almost 1000 miles per gallon of gas by turning it into a vapor before injecting it into the cylinders.....they ended up dead as well under mysterious circumstances and their research disappeared......

If you ever get a chance and can find it, I recommend a video (Gashole) .........testimony by Shell Engineers, Senators ect......they actually had an older car that weighed as much as a Humvee and were getting 150 miles per gallon and the Shell Executive testified that they had (through research) pushed the limit to almost 1000 miles per gallon!
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#26
It's a nearsighted project. The 8 billion it costs and the few thousand jobs it will create simply aren't as economically cost effective as pursuing greener forms of energy such as wind-turbine, solar or dam produced electricity and electrolysis produced hydrogen for cars. A small space in the uninhabited parts of the Californian deserts filled with solar panels would be enough to fuel the entire United States with electricity, would create thousands of construction and maintenance jobs as well as engineering jobs and such. As for the hydrogen, electrolysis stations could produce the hydrogen without any negative effect on the health of the planet by using the solar electricity, and the hydrogen burns in hydrogen engines without any harmful by-products.

The building of the pumps and manning of the stations for the hydrogen would also create thousand of jobs, as well as the manufacture of the hydrogen cars, the salesmen, the mechanics, etc etc etc.

The cost to initiate the program would be greater than that of the pipeline, but the jobs created and the long term effect on both the economy and the planet would be well worth the investment. Energy companies who fund the projects would never need to worry about ''running out of oil'' -- sunlight doesn't run out (at least not any time in the next billion years).

It makes more sense in the long term.
Yea well gather up some money and start these things...The rest of us think we should always have a good solid flow of oil till these things become advanced enough to take the place of carbon based energy.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#27
Yea well gather up some money and start these things...The rest of us think we should always have a good solid flow of oil till these things become advanced enough to take the place of carbon based energy.

As BP Oil have already said, there's only 53 years of oil left. Geologists agree. Who are the ''rest of us''? Most educated people understand the need to change our energy sources. Your ''rest of us'' are increasingly becoming a minority.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#28
As BP Oil have already said, there's only 53 years of oil left. Geologists agree. Who are the ''rest of us''? Most educated people understand the need to change our energy sources. Your ''rest of us'' are increasingly becoming a minority.
Gee I wonder why the Oil companies would want to make their product sound like its about to run out? No one really believes that their is a real oil shortage and they find more and more reserves everyday...but we can all agree we should move to some of the more cleaner sources as they become economical.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#29
Gee I wonder why the Oil companies would want to make their product sound like its about to run out? No one really believes that their is a real oil shortage and they find more and more reserves everyday...but we can all agree we should move to some of the more cleaner sources as they become economical.
Mitspa, in fifty years, I sincerely, sincerely, hope to God that you're right, but I don't think you are, and personally, I'm not willling to take the risk.

Let's look at this logically, if the oil companies (who stand by oil to the hilt, who have funded climate change denial campaigns and who oppose climate science in many aspects) have carried out studies and then told the public that there's 50 years of oil left, and the public respond by pushing for renewable energy sources (mostly government funded or funded by new companies not dealing in oil) then won't the oil companies actually lose out?

You see, governments asked independent surveyors to calculate how much oil was left, and the oil companies had to oblige. There was no way around it. The oil companies could not sugar coat it or cover it up.

And we have the data: 53 years of oil.

And do you know what happens to the atmosphere if we burn it all? The CO2 rises to a dangerous level in PPM, our planet is unable to release heat from its atmosphere to the degree it currently can and the Earth's ice caps pretty much melt, causing sea levels around the globe to rise to a degree sufficient to wipe out the US Eastern Seaboard, almost all of Bangladesh, a fair bit of India, pretty much all of the southeast United Kingdom including London, almost all of Denmark and the Netherlands, and any and all of the low-lying Pacific islands, among many other areas around the world.

Storms (as we have seen already) will be more frequent and severe due to stronger sea currents, higher tides, more kinetic force in our global surface level energy transfer due to the malleable nature of liquid water, higher wolrdwide temperatures, wetter winter climates, colder winters, and intensely warm summers.

Displacement would be catastrophic, and the areas where most of the world's population now reside, in South East Asia, would be decimated.

I really don't want to take the chance. I don't think it's worth it, and I don't think that considering they say there are 50 years of ol left, that we have time, even economically, to dilly-dally. We need to create jobs in energy sources that aren't about to run out. We need to think of alternatives to sustain our planet, economy, energy needs and of course stop our planet from being drastically altered by us.

Since the industrial revolution, each year more species have become extinct, more storms have happened, higher temperatures have been recorded, more pollutant gases have been counted, more CO2 has been released and the curve for the increase in negative weather patterns and CO2 parts per million has shifted up more drastically than in recorded history.

co2_data_mlo.png

giss_temperature.png
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,783
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#30
Does not California have some of the strictest emission regulations/laws in the world? How is that working out for them?

Anyone know which Industry is the 2nd largest polluter in the State of California?
Yes Calif. does have the strictest emission control and has been enjoying cleaner air since the 80's but taxed out the Ying Yang.
The 1st largest polluter is the film industry in Hollywood, I don't know what the second is...maybe our govt. in Sacramento.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#31
Mitspa, in fifty years, I sincerely, sincerely, hope to God that you're right, but I don't think you are, and personally, I'm not willling to take the risk.

Let's look at this logically, if the oil companies (who stand by oil to the hilt, who have funded climate change denial campaigns and who oppose climate science in many aspects) have carried out studies and then told the public that there's 50 years of oil left, and the public respond by pushing for renewable energy sources (mostly government funded or funded by new companies not dealing in oil) then won't the oil companies actually lose out?

You see, governments asked independent surveyors to calculate how much oil was left, and the oil companies had to oblige. There was no way around it. The oil companies could not sugar coat it or cover it up.

And we have the data: 53 years of oil.

And do you know what happens to the atmosphere if we burn it all? The CO2 rises to a dangerous level in PPM, our planet is unable to release heat from its atmosphere to the degree it currently can and the Earth's ice caps pretty much melt, causing sea levels around the globe to rise to a degree sufficient to wipe out the US Eastern Seaboard, almost all of Bangladesh, a fair bit of India, pretty much all of the southeast United Kingdom including London, almost all of Denmark and the Netherlands, and any and all of the low-lying Pacific islands, among many other areas around the world.

Storms (as we have seen already) will be more frequent and severe due to stronger sea currents, higher tides, more kinetic force in our global surface level energy transfer due to the malleable nature of liquid water, higher wolrdwide temperatures, wetter winter climates, colder winters, and intensely warm summers.

Displacement would be catastrophic, and the areas where most of the world's population now reside, in South East Asia, would be decimated.

I really don't want to take the chance. I don't think it's worth it, and I don't think that considering they say there are 50 years of ol left, that we have time, even economically, to dilly-dally. We need to create jobs in energy sources that aren't about to run out. We need to think of alternatives to sustain our planet, economy, energy needs and of course stop our planet from being drastically altered by us.

Since the industrial revolution, each year more species have become extinct, more storms have happened, higher temperatures have been recorded, more pollutant gases have been counted, more CO2 has been released and the curve for the increase in negative weather patterns and CO2 parts per million has shifted up more drastically than in recorded history.

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View attachment 96716
The true oil reserves of this country are considered a secret and a matter of National defense ...as it probably should be? Of course those who sale oil want folks to believe its demand is greater than its supply...that's just basic economics. Now honestly to me I believe we should move to clean energy but not because I believe in global warming and other such things, and do not trust any group that preaches global warming anymore than I believe any group that teaches evolution...they both are proven scams :)
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#32
The true oil reserves of this country are considered a secret and a matter of National defense ...as it probably should be? Of course those who sale oil want folks to believe its demand is greater than its supply...that's just basic economics. Now honestly to me I believe we should move to clean energy but not because I believe in global warming and other such things, and do not trust any group that preaches global warming anymore than I believe any group that teaches evolution...they both are proven scams :)
If you can demonstrate to me, succinctly, that you understand what reputable scientists have told us both global warming and evolution entail -- what the supposed functions and mechanisms of each are -- then give me a short breakdown of how they are both ''proven scams'', then I'll consider this argument further.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#33
If you can demonstrate to me, succinctly, that you understand what reputable scientists have told us both global warming and evolution entail -- what the supposed functions and mechanisms of each are -- then give me a short breakdown of how they are both ''proven scams'', then I'll consider this argument further.
Man! The super bowl is coming on! and its such a complex issue...but many know exactly why I said that and you probably do too? Lets just save that debate for another day ;)
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#34
Man! The super bowl is coming on! and its such a complex issue...but many know exactly why I said that and you probably do too? Lets just save that debate for another day ;)
Enjoy the game.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,796
6,949
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#35
If you can demonstrate to me, succinctly, that you understand what reputable scientists have told us both global warming and evolution entail -- what the supposed functions and mechanisms of each are -- then give me a short breakdown of how they are both ''proven scams'', then I'll consider this argument further.
why mix the two debates? that's just silly............as for global warming, are you STILL insisting that global warming is MAN MADE? now with regards to "reputable scientists," they are "reputable" ONLY IF they agree with the dialog of the socialist liberals in that man is responsible for global warming............problem is, there are "reputable scientists" on both sides, so taking one over the other is a matter of political ideology and not scientific fact in my opinion.

The latest report released this January from the very folks that brought us man made global warming those "reputable scientists") admit that the climate has increased only two tenths of one degree in the last ten years. And they had no "reputable" evidence to support that this increase was caused by man rather than a natural occurrence within our climate.

Also, it is a real hoot to see how all of these "reputable scientists" have had to RENAME this farce from "man made global warming," to "climate change." Like renaming so very many other things to improve their position in an argument.

The earths climate is in a CONSTANT state of flux/change............so, YES, there IS climate change........goodness, a child knows when it's a sunny day or a rainy day, when it's hot outside, or cold outside...........seriously.

You guys can bloviate all you wish, but you are just selling "woof" tickets when it comes to "man made" global warming.
 
Oct 30, 2014
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#36
why mix the two debates? that's just silly............as for global warming, are you STILL insisting that global warming is MAN MADE? now with regards to "reputable scientists," they are "reputable" ONLY IF they agree with the dialog of the socialist liberals in that man is responsible for global warming............problem is, there are "reputable scientists" on both sides, so taking one over the other is a matter of political ideology and not scientific fact in my opinion.

The latest report released this January from the very folks that brought us man made global warming those "reputable scientists") admit that the climate has increased only two tenths of one degree in the last ten years. And they had no "reputable" evidence to support that this increase was caused by man rather than a natural occurrence within our climate.

Also, it is a real hoot to see how all of these "reputable scientists" have had to RENAME this farce from "man made global warming," to "climate change." Like renaming so very many other things to improve their position in an argument.

The earths climate is in a CONSTANT state of flux/change............so, YES, there IS climate change........goodness, a child knows when it's a sunny day or a rainy day, when it's hot outside, or cold outside...........seriously.

You guys can bloviate all you wish, but you are just selling "woof" tickets when it comes to "man made" global warming.
The most comprehensive report, considered irrefutable proof of climate change, was opposed vehemently by republicans and energy companies, and never saw the light of day. Climate change is a relevant factor in the construction of this pipeline.

Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet: Consensus
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#37
why mix the two debates? that's just silly............as for global warming, are you STILL insisting that global warming is MAN MADE? now with regards to "reputable scientists," they are "reputable" ONLY IF they agree with the dialog of the socialist liberals in that man is responsible for global warming............problem is, there are "reputable scientists" on both sides, so taking one over the other is a matter of political ideology and not scientific fact in my opinion.

The latest report released this January from the very folks that brought us man made global warming those "reputable scientists") admit that the climate has increased only two tenths of one degree in the last ten years. And they had no "reputable" evidence to support that this increase was caused by man rather than a natural occurrence within our climate.

Also, it is a real hoot to see how all of these "reputable scientists" have had to RENAME this farce from "man made global warming," to "climate change." Like renaming so very many other things to improve their position in an argument.

The earths climate is in a CONSTANT state of flux/change............so, YES, there IS climate change........goodness, a child knows when it's a sunny day or a rainy day, when it's hot outside, or cold outside...........seriously.

You guys can bloviate all you wish, but you are just selling "woof" tickets when it comes to "man made" global warming.
I have heard that polar North has been shifting towards Russia by about 40 kilometers a year.....that in itself would cause warming and cooling to hit certain parts of the northern and southern hemispheres.......I noticed about 10 years ago that the sun did not seem to set in the same position that it did when I was a kid and then heard the report about polar north shifting towards Russia.......

I also read a report about that massive dam built by China and how it change the revolution of the earth a bit...and that the airports have had to adjust the gps systems on the planes as the earth slowly shifts polar north towards Russia...

And even the massive earth quake and tsunami that hit Indonesia lifted St. Louis by x amount of inches.......

Just some reports I have read that adds to (global warming and or cooling)
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#38
Oct 30, 2014
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#39
If the Republicans thought it was nonsense? It probably was :)
Republicans are notorious for opposing scientific evidence. Remember the tobacco insdustry? They did exactly the same thing, because Republicans then represented a lot of Southern tobacco farmers, and they do the same thing now because the biggest oil companies in the US are run by Southerners.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#40
Republicans are notorious for opposing scientific evidence. Remember the tobacco insdustry? They did exactly the same thing, because Republicans then represented a lot of Southern tobacco farmers, and they do the same thing now because the biggest oil companies in the US are run by Southerners.
Oh come on when was that 30 years ago? And whats wrong with southerners? That's what we send our reps to do to represent us. And if they rejected this data...Im sure its because its full of left wing type tree-hugger stuff :)