KILLINGS OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS BY ISRAELI FORCES

[Atwood]

I hate to tell you crossnote but that is undeniable history. The state of israel attacked Egypt first and I'm 100% certain you have nothing to dispute that fact.

Jahsoul, do you deny that Israel's moslem neighbors have been committed to the destruction of Israel ever since 1948 without letup?

Would you like the destruction of Israel?

Are you a believer in Allah?

Are you committed to Islam conquering the world?

 

[Stephen63]

So again, who do we have to blow up for the USS Liberty incident? If the state of israel felt as strong about you do about the start of the war, why did they lie and tell the world that Egypt attacked them? You remember the saying, once a liar; makes you wonder what else they lied about to play a victim. *rubs chin*

But again, I don't overlook the deed of one over another base of a misguided belief.

As an aside, you comment still doesn't jibe with what I said. I didn't make any mention of reasons the state of israel had for attacking Egypt. I brought up the fact that they lied about it. But I guess that fact falls into the category of smoke and a giant load of manure, huh?

If it's a big deal to you that Israel lied, then you ought to go ballistic when looking at all lies & deception the hamas have been involved in from day one.

BTW, IMO anybody who is for the hamas are either ignorant of their devices, or trying to be another type of 'human shield' for them. And that 'shield' would be a big pile of manure in itself.

 

[jahsoul]

Jahsoul,
Tell me, do you believe in Allah?

Do you think the Jews should be allowed to have any state in the Land of Israel at all?
What would you do with those Jews? Exterminate them?

Jahsoul, do you deny that Israel's moslem neighbors have been committed to the destruction of Israel ever since 1948 without letup?

Would you like the destruction of Israel?

Are you a believer in Allah?

Are you committed to Islam conquering the world?

So if I don't support the state of israel, I'm a muslim? Because I don't support atrocities on either end, I want people dead? No, because my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was called the Prince of Peace. But let me ask you this:

*I don't deny that it has been tension over t
*Do you think small time Hamas could destroy a state whose military is funded and backed by US (taxpayer) dollars?
*Are you a believer in Christ? (sometimes the hate of others makes that stance real questionable)
*How will Islam conquer the world? Even if that is possible and does happen, guess what? "Thy will be done."

 

[jahsoul]

If it's a big deal to you that Israel lied, then you ought to go ballistic when looking at all lies & deception the hamas have been involved in from day one.

BTW, IMO anybody who is for the hamas are either ignorant of their devices, or trying to be another type of 'human shield' for them. And that 'shield' would be a big pile of manure in itself.

It's not a big deal to me. I just know that they are capable of it and will do it

And to you last sentence, I feel the same way about those who blindly support a state based off of flawed theology.

 

[Atwood]

Attempted Murder of Israel by Islamics

Atwood asked Jahsoul,Tell me, do you believe in Allah?

Do you think the Jews should be allowed to have any state in the Land of Israel at all?
What would you do with those Jews? Exterminate them?

Jahsoul, do you deny that Israel's moslem neighbors have been committed to the destruction of Israel ever since 1948 without letup?

Would you like the destruction of Israel?

Are you a believer in Allah?

Are you committed to Islam conquering the world?

So if I don't support the state of israel, I'm a muslim?

Jahsoud, give a straight answer please,
Are you a believer in Allah?

Because I don't support atrocities on either end, I want people dead?

Please stop evading the question,
Would you like the destruction of the State of Israel?

How will Islam conquer the world? Even if that is possible and does happen, guess what? "Thy will be done."

So then you indeed are committed to Islam conquering the world?

Don't shuck & jive, Jahsoul -- please give a straight answer.

 

[jahsoul]

Re: Attempted Murder of Israel by Islamics

Atwood asked Jahsoul,Tell me, do you believe in Allah?

Do you think the Jews should be allowed to have any state in the Land of Israel at all?
What would you do with those Jews? Exterminate them?

Jahsoul, do you deny that Israel's moslem neighbors have been committed to the destruction of Israel ever since 1948 without letup?

Would you like the destruction of Israel?

Are you a believer in Allah?

Are you committed to Islam conquering the world?



Jahsoud, give a straight answer please,
Are you a believer in Allah?



Please stop evading the question,
Would you like the destruction of the State of Israel?



So then you indeed are committed to Islam conquering the world?

Don't shuck & jive, Jahsoul -- please give a straight answer.

You ask stupid questions and then demand an answer? lol OK

I'll answer the one I found most offensive; am I a believer in Allah? You can go through my post history and see for yourself what I believe. I will allow you to do that and you come up with your own conclusion. But from your post I do believe that you are misguided "christian" zionist. Take that how you want....

I don't want the destruction of anyone and I'm not calling for it, but you want death of muslims. What makes you better than them?

Committed to Islam conquering the world? No, but I've versed enough in scripture to know that Christianity won't conquer the world until Christ return. So if Islam indeed conquers the world, how would that happen?

I don't deny any tension in that area, but if you look at history (which I doubt you will), most of that aggression came from the state of israel's strike against Egypt.


But truthfully, at the end of the day, I believe that you built 2 post of strawmen because you had no legitimate response to anything I said. Because you couldn't answer anything I said intelligently, you would rather question my faith and other irrelevancies instead of facing the question and that's OK. I choose not to look at recent history through flawed theology. I don't expect you to answer any of my questions, and that is fine by me, but at least it is on christianchat archieved records that you had nothing logical to say in the post about this subject.

 

[jahsoul]

*regarding the history portion of tension that I noted*


June 6th, 1967 conversation between the Foreign Minister of Lebanon and the US Sec. of State

Foreign Minister (Hakim of Lebanon) said Arab-American friendship might be one of first victims of "Israeli aggression". The Arabs were convinced that only in event of Israeli military success would the US be non-belligerent, but that the US would intervene on the side of Israel if the Arabs were to gain the upper hand. The Arabs were united in their anger and humiliation and determined some day to bring an end to Israel as an aggressive, militaristic state. The Israelis might win a victory now, Hakim said, but it was time they started thinking about their future in the Arab world, which would depend ultimately on their reaching a modus vivendi with the Arabs. With the help of Soviet arms and their own growing population and economic power, the Arabs would ultimately redress past wrongs.

 

[Sirk]

And what past wrongs would that be? That Ishmael got kicked to the proverbial curb as the heir and firstborn of Abraham? You do know that that is what all this is all really about don't you? God will once again use the Ishmaelites to save the Jewish nation....just like he did when Joseph's brothers sold him to a band of Ishmael's descendants and Joseph rose to prominence in Egypt. I'm sure you know that story.....right? It's a story about what happens when you let bitterness rule in your heart vs drawing near to God. Quite a contrast between the attitude of Joseph and Ishmael it is. (You have to say the last sentence in a Yoda voice).

 

[Esanta]

Seems to me that many people are more interested in reaching a verdict than a solution.

 

[jahsoul]

And what past wrongs would that be? That Ishmael got kicked to the proverbial curb as the heir and firstborn of Abraham? You do know that that is what all this is all really about don't you? God will once again use the Ishmaelites to save the Jewish nation....just like he did when Joseph's brothers sold him to a band of Ishmael's descendants and Joseph rose to prominence in Egypt. I'm sure you know that story.....right? It's a story about what happens when you let bitterness rule in your heart vs drawing near to God. Quite a contrast between the attitude of Joseph and Ishmael it is. (You have to say the last sentence in a Yoda voice).

LOL@Yoda voice. hahahaha

But getting back serious, I doubt that he was talking to the Secretary of State on Biblical matters. Truthfully, I believe (don't quote me because I'm still doing extensive research on this) that Arab nations believe that the land was taken by force.

 

[Sirk]

Seems to me that many people are more interested in reaching a verdict than a solution.

Well coming at it with a worldly world view, it's understandable that you would reach that conclusion. The reality and biblical perspective is that God has allowed the evil one to shape the world in a way that will ultimately lead to His glory.....unfortunately mankind will unleash carnage that has not been seen before.....and it's all because of the fallen nature of man and his propensity to commit evil against his fellow man because of his unrepentant heart. Truth is...this thing is gonna go how it's gonna go and there ain't nothin you or I can do about it.

 

[Esanta]

Well coming at it with a worldly world view, it's understandable that you would reach that conclusion. The reality and biblical perspective is that God has allowed the evil one to shape the world in a way that will ultimately lead to His glory.....unfortunately mankind will unleash carnage that has not been seen before.....and it's all because of the fallen nature of man and his propensity to commit evil against his fellow man because of his unrepentant heart. Truth is...this thing is gonna go how it's gonna go and there ain't nothin you or I can do about it.

Hatred can't ever cease by more hatred, nor can it cease by irreverence, so if only one person on this forum listens to me when I say that justification of evil and hatred within oneself is an unworthy individual experience, then we'll be one person closer to non-hatred. The cultivation of good is like dropping water in an empty cup. Even one drop of goodness is water for life, and each drop adds slowly. Goodness is cultivated bit by bit.

'The Kingdom of Heaven is like the mustard seed, which a man takes and plants in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, when it grows it is the largest of garden plants, and becomes a tree so that the birds come and perch on its branches'.

It's something that we plant, and cultivate, tender for and look after. Each person is responsible for the growth of their own mustard tree - to its wither or to its blossom.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Attempted Murder of Israel by Islamics

You ask stupid questions and then demand an answer? lol OK

The questions are not stupid, but point on. why don't you just give straight answers?

Again:

Jahsoul,Tell me, do you believe in Allah?

Do you think the Jews should be allowed to have any state in the Land of Israel at all?
What would you do with those Jews? Exterminate them?

Jahsoul, do you deny that Israel's moslem neighbors have been committed to the destruction of Israel ever since 1948 without letup?

Would you like the destruction of Israel?

Are you a believer in Allah?

Are you committed to Islam conquering the world?



Jahsoud, give a straight answer please,
Are you a believer in Allah?



Please stop evading the question,
Would you like the destruction of the State of Israel?

So then you indeed are committed to Islam conquering the world?

Don't shuck & jive, Jahsoul -- please give a straight answer

you had nothing logical to say in the post about this subject.

There is nothing illogical about my questions.

Why don't you give straight answers???

After you give straight answers,
I can address some other things you said.

 

[Esanta]

This, all this is missing something. I've seen recently, from reading more and more into the bible, that personal faith is about me, my actions, my intents, my thought processes, not about verdicts on others. It's not about placing a verdict on people thousands of miles away whom I've never met. It isn't. And both ways, Israeli and Palestine, we are separate geographically. We are a different culture, we are so many things that serve to make our opinions on Israel and Palestine diffusive.

I sat earlier today, pondering all of it. Being here, arguing with people on this forum about Israel and Palestine, and I realized something; our opinions don't help. They don't. We're just a group of people bothering one another. Those families, both Israeli and Palestinian, caught in gunfire, bombings, the result of political manoeuvring or aggression or God knows what; do they care about our petty opinions? Do they wake up in the morning and think 'I wonder what those people on Christian Chat are saying?'

And Sirk, you said 'there's nothing we can do about it', and if that's true, and if that's the Christian position, and there's nothing we can do about it and there's no point trying, then what's the point of being here arguing amongst each other, adding conflict to conflict? If there is nothing we can do about Israel and Palestine in your eyes then why even try?

And so would a better use of time not be to do something else? Something do-able?

Likewise, for those who think something can be done, that we can incite in those who believe this is justified a willingness to end this divisiveness and refrain from factionalism, there's also no point, since none are willing to bend their entire theological foundations for the sake of universal humanitarianism. So why do that either? Why not do something do-able?

And for me, I think I'm going to read some more things Jesus said in his day. My heart goes out to all the families, men, women and children who're suffering because of this.

 

[Atwood]

KILLINGS OF JEWISH CIVILIANS BY Islamics

I don't call for the murder of anyone.
But I am reasonable to endorse Israel's self-defense vs murderers.
And I believe I have observed scripture and current news enough to know that the Islamists will not rest until they have all of the Land of Israel, all the world, and murdered any opposition including Christians and Jews.

And IMHO, Israel will not be at peace so long as Muslims live in the Land of Israel, which includes Gaza and Samaria (aka Manasseh and Ephraim).

If we get to the real truth, I don't expect Israel to have peace until the Sea Beast of Rev 13 arises and sells them a bill of goods in a peace treaty, which will be broken after 3 1/2 years, leading to a great persecution and a flight of Israel described in Rev 12. Thus I expect another event driving out Israel from its land if no longer than 3 1/2 years, if not very far (to the wilderness).

I have no idea how things will actually play out until then, except that I expect no peace for Israel in the near future.

 

[crossnote]

And for me, I think I'm going to read some more things Jesus said in his day. My heart goes out to all the families, men, women and children who're suffering because of this.

Yes, you keep reading the things Jesus said...but don't read just the social side of things about loving our neighbor...but also how He said...

John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Matthew 20:28 " Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

John 11:25-26 '' I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

To receive Him as a teacher of helping the poor, but denying Him as the only Savior of the world is to call Him a liar or deceived, and thus make Him unworthy to be listened to on any count,
.

 

[Esanta]

Yes, you keep reading the things Jesus said...but don't read just the social side of things about loving our neighbor...but also how He said...

John 14:6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Matthew 20:28 " Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

John 11:25-26 '' I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

To receive Him as a teacher of helping the poor, but denying Him as the only Savior of the world is to call Him a liar or deceived, and thus make Him unworthy to be listened to on any count,
.

I stopped listening to you when you started preaching antagonistically about Jesus' antagonistic side.

 

[crossnote]

I stopped listening to you when you started preaching antagonistically about Jesus' antagonistic side.

What side was that?

 

[Esanta]

What side was that?

The right, or the left, I can never remember.

 

[Atwood]

I stopped listening to you when you started preaching antagonistically about Jesus' antagonistic side.

Esanta, I'm not sure what you mean about the Lord Jesus' antagonistic side. He certainly is not the namby-pamby "Jesus" of some liberal phony Christianity.

He is the great I AM (name of God).
Thou shalt call His name Jesus (Yeho-shua' = YHWH (is) salvation),
for He shall save His people from their sins.

He speaks great I AM sayings in John's gospel:

Before Abraham was born, I AM.
I AM the way the truth & the life,
no man comes to the father, but by Me.

I AM the light of the world.
I AM the good shepherd.
I AM the bread of life.
I AM the bread that came down from Heaven.

I AM the resurrection and the life; He who believes in Me though He were dead; yet He shall live. And whosoever lives & believes in Me shall never die.

I am the resurrection & the life.
When arrested prior to the cross, he spoke the words to his arresters, " I AM." they fell back & to the ground.

Except you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.