Leadership in the Relationship

[rachelsedge]

There are gonna be a lot of questions, so...be prepared. I'm curious as to what both the guys and the girls think of these questions, not just the guys. They can be your personal opinion but if you have scriptures to back it up, that'd be cool, too.

The Bible says that the husband is to be the head of the household. What does this entail? How does the husband fulfill his role as the leader/spiritual leader in the home? What does it mean for the wife to "submit"?

What does that look like in a dating relationship? Is it something that should be done only after marriage, only once the relationship starts to get serious, or from the very beginning?

What does it mean for the guy to ''pursue'' a girl, for a relationship? Do you think the guy must be the one to do this, or is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy?

Just curious. I've heard different responses before on each one so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[kayem77]

The Bible says that the husband is to be the head of the household. What does this entail? How does the husband fulfill his role as the leader/spiritual leader in the home? What does it mean for the wife to "submit"? It means that the husband is expected to be the one who ultimately makes sure his family grows spiritually. He is the initiator for things spiritual, he is the one who makes sure his wife and children are gettin fed, not only physicaly, but spiritually also. (Ephesians 5:25-27).

It doesn't mean that he takes all the decisions without listening to what his wife and children have to say, but he takes those thing into consideraton before he makes a decision. He is supposed to represent Christ and his authority over ,and sacrifice for His church.

A submissive wife is a woman who respects her husband in every decision he takes, even if she doesn't agree with him (Eph 5:24). She offers him not only love, but also counsel and wisdom (Proverbs 31: 11, 26) but she is willing to follow her husband wherever he goes. She is not made less because of her position in authority, she is protected by it, just like Christ guides and loves his Church. (Eph 5:29)

She is not called to remain quiet or not use her gifts, rather she is called to use those gifts for her family, supporting her husband and children. She seeks to do good to her husband all the days of his life(Prov 31:12). She is supposed to represent the Church, called to follow Christ no matter what. The Church experiences the love of Christ and this helps the Chuch make this obedience easier .

What does that look like in a dating relationship? Is it something that should be done only after marriage, only once the relationship starts to get serious, or from the very beginning?

There are no verses saying that a girlfriend should submit to her boyfriend. It doesn't make sense either. If my boyfriend was going against God and telling me to follow him, I would leave him. This is to be done only in marriage. Submiting to one another is something we all are called to do though, married or not. (Ephesians 5:21)

What does it mean for the guy to ''pursue'' a girl, for a relationship? Do you think the guy must be the one to do this, or is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy?

Well, I don't think we can say that the guy has to necessarily be the pursuer, but I think there are many instances in the Bible where men are called to be bold and leaders, so I would think that a guy is naturaly called to do the pursuing. If a guy likes me and is not bold enough to pursue me, then I wouldn't be very attracted to him. That doesn't mean I won't let him know I'm interested someway, but I would prefer to make sure that he is interested for starters.

 

[LightningClap0002]

There are gonna be a lot of questions, so...be prepared. I'm curious as to what both the guys and the girls think of these questions, not just the guys. They can be your personal opinion but if you have scriptures to back it up, that'd be cool, too.

The Bible says that the husband is to be the head of the household. What does this entail? How does the husband fulfill his role as the leader/spiritual leader in the home? What does it mean for the wife to "submit"?

What does that look like in a dating relationship? Is it something that should be done only after marriage, only once the relationship starts to get serious, or from the very beginning?

What does it mean for the guy to ''pursue'' a girl, for a relationship? Do you think the guy must be the one to do this, or is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy?

Just curious. I've heard different responses before on each one so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

I heard bits and pieces of a sermon about this role of a husband. Unfortunately I didn't get to hear the whole thing. The general theme of it was that this verse was pointing to a sense of responsibility. The man is responsible for the spiritual health of his entire family. Does that mean that He has to micro manage and that his wife/children can't grow spiritually on their own? Certainly not! In the end, though, out of his sense of responsibility, the man should be expected to keep an eye on those he is responsible for just like a pastor does for his church. Just like Christ did with his early followers.

There is an analogy between managers and husbands. A manager is responsible for the work produced by those who are under them. That doesn't mean that they go down and grab their employees hand and lead them from place to place and hover over their shoulder. But they are responsible, they need to be ready to encourage and correct when appropriate.

I personally try to treat any deep romantic relationship with the same level of respect and responsibility as I would a marriage.

And I don't think there is a problem with a woman pursuing a man.... as long as they don't turn into a female stalker (they do exist ).

 

[AAAPlus]

The Bible says that the husband is to be the head of the household. What does this entail? How does the husband fulfill his role as the leader/spiritual leader in the home? What does it mean for the wife to "submit"?

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Essentially, God knows that a democracy in marriage isn't going to work. One vote vs one vote is never going to be productive. He decided that it would be better for the husband to be the leader. But He also commanded, right after this verse for the husbands to love their wives as themselves. The husband basically has an equally binding command to not use this "power" for his own selfish gain. There are whole books about this that I recommend for anyone who is getting married soon.

The husband should take his wife's wishes into full account, even over his own desires. But sometimes he will feel that he does know best, and in this case, the wife should trust him. After all, she chose to marry him, right?

What does that look like in a dating relationship? Is it something that should be done only after marriage, only once the relationship starts to get serious, or from the very beginning?

The girl should be looking for a guy who she would trust as a spiritual leader. Submission is not required in a dating relationship, but they should both know and agree that once they get married, he will be the spiritual leader.

A good example is a buddy of mine. He is dating and recently got engaged to a really great girl. The girl's parents are very adamant about her going to their particular church denomination. My buddy asks her to go to his church all the time, but she usually refuses because she doesn't want to upset her parents, and she has gone there her whole life. However, once they get married, she will start going to his church. He already discussed this with her parents, and of course they agree (even though they don't like it). She is okay with it because she trusts that God's word is good and trustworthy.

Notice that I wrote that "she trusts that God's word is good and trustworthy" and not "she trusts her husband is good and trustworthy". No matter what kind of man a woman's husband is, God's word is the same and it's good.

Of course, a woman can and should use her discernment and never "submit" to something that is against the Bible.

What does it mean for the guy to ''pursue'' a girl, for a relationship? Do you think the guy must be the one to do this, or is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy?

It means that the guy should be the one to ask the girl out. He should be the one to bring up the idea of a relationship. He should be pursuing a friendship with her before that.

 

[Ugly]

There are gonna be a lot of questions, so...be prepared. I'm curious as to what both the guys and the girls think of these questions, not just the guys. They can be your personal opinion but if you have scriptures to back it up, that'd be cool, too.

The Bible says that the husband is to be the head of the household. What does this entail? How does the husband fulfill his role as the leader/spiritual leader in the home? These two are pretty similar, so i'll condense the answer. I believe that the man is the final decision maker. He is the one that guides the family in the direction they will take in life. But, of course, all of this is done with respect for his family, and giving true consideration to how things will effect them. And, of course, while he may make the final decisions, he should always consult with and consider what his wife has to say. And, always be in prayer about these choices, as well.

What does it mean for the wife to "submit"? I think she just needs to stand behind his decisions and trust her husband to make right choices for the family and not try to be the one running the show.

What does that look like in a dating relationship? Is it something that should be done only after marriage, only once the relationship starts to get serious, or from the very beginning? I don't believe this is intended for dating. It says in the bible 'husband' and 'wife'. Not boyfriend and girlfriend. Now, a dating couple may want choose to attempt to live this out, but in the end, he is Not her leader, and she is Not required to submit.

What does it mean for the guy to ''pursue'' a girl, for a relationship? Simple, he see's her, he wants her, he goes after her either til she concedes, or until a restraining order is put in place, haha.
Do you think the guy must be the one to do this, or is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy? I know this is not as popular as an answer, but i see no problem with a woman going after a guy she likes. I think culture has more to do with the idea that it has to be the man all the time, but i'm not having culture dictate my thoughts on this.
I once met a woman, she was attractive, nice, we got along great, but i was unsure of dating her. She started pursing me when i first turned her down. A few weeks later i gave in. (wasn't that hard as i really did like her , haha). But it didn't phase me that she pursued me, in fact its why we started dating. And there was never an issue in the relationship. It didn't put her as the dominate one, in fact, she seemed to maintain a bit of a submissive nature and wanted me to be the man and the leader.

Just curious. I've heard different responses before on each one so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

Violla!!!!

 

[BarlyGurl]

I like the way the fellas are "summarizing" the Husband is leader and the wife is submissive principals...
which I will point another way...
Husband is leader--- which does mean the one who INITIATES and GUIDES
Wife be in submission---- which really does mean RESPONDER and FOLLOWER

THE maddening thing is that you fellas can articulate this biblical principal... and then COMPLETELY invalidate it by stating you BELIEVE it is perfectly okay for a woman to "pursue" a man. HELLO, KNOCK KNOCK... do any of you notice that this beleif or value is exactly the opposite of what scripture says??? That a Woman pursuing is actually putting the woman in the LEADERSHIP position from the Get Go???

 

[BLINDSIDE_CHIK]

I just wanted to say that just because the culture is different now as far as pursuing, doesn't mean that thats the way it SHOULD be. But submit I think is to yeah stand behind him, but sometimes leaders don't always make the right decisions. Now I don't think that means that the woman is supposed to take the man's job or "role", but at the same time she is not just a woman she is a person...so he should care about what she thinks about certain problems, ideas etc. Signs of leading can happen while dating, because the woman needs to see how kind of leader qualities in him if they are considering getting married...such as a man being the man and treating the girl like she should be treated and other things. But there is a line that's drawn. I think if they aren't married, he shouldn't be trying to act like they are married and vise versa because then their wouldn't be much difference.

 

[Ugly]

THE maddening thing is that you fellas can articulate this biblical principal... and then COMPLETELY invalidate it by stating you BELIEVE it is perfectly okay for a woman to "pursue" a man. HELLO, KNOCK KNOCK... do any of you notice that this beleif or value is exactly the opposite of what scripture says??? That a Woman pursuing is actually putting the woman in the LEADERSHIP position from the Get Go???

Not really. Because she's not my wife, so she's not to be submissive to me. Wives are supposed to be submissive to their husbands, but not before marriage. And, as i stated in my post before, i was pursued by a woman, and she still put me in the leadership role. So i have experience that says opposite of what you're saying.

 

[proverbs35]

is it okay for a girl to ultimately pursue a guy?

Growing up, I was always reminded of the verse:
He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD. Pr 18.22
Considering that verse, I was taught that it was the husband's duty to FIND, and the wife's duty to be FOUND or DISCOVERED.

However, since that time, I learned about Ruth. Guess what? Virtuous Ruth pursued and proposed to Boaz. Wow! That was so different from what I was taught growing up. Not that Pr 18:22 is null and void or anything, but there are two perspectives on the issue rather than just one, so there is Biblical evidence of a virtuous woman pursuing a husband.

Reference: Book of Ruth Chapter 3

 

[BarlyGurl]

Not really.
NOT really WHAT???
Because she's not my wife, so she's not to be submissive to me. I think you are FULLY confusing "COMITTING" with "SUBMISSION", because Ephesians 5:21 speaks of all belivers submitting to one another before introducing the topic of marriage whereas wife are then instructed be be in submission to their OWN husband (vs some other authorative person), since the scripture CLEARLY says that... how so could any man expect to get a glimpse of what "wifely" submission might look like if there is no "submission in the fear of Christ" to draw from obsevationally????
Wives are supposed to be submissive to their husbands, but not before marriage. I addresses this problem above
And, as i stated in my post before, i was pursued by a woman, and she still put me in the leadership role. So what you are saying is a woman initiated a relationship with you, she pursued you leading the relationship forward... you responded by consenting to her initiation and thereby allowed her to steer the relationship forward...yet you insist that you were in the LEADERSHIP positon, and She PUT YOU THERE??? WOW

So i have experience that says opposite of what you're saying.

REALLY??? How's that relationship working out now? Ugly, in the kindest way... your experience is authentic... yet attempting to assert that situation is acceptable to God or that it harmonizes with scripture is entirely FALSE. It is outside GOd's design of order, authority and gender roles. The belief that it is OK for women to pursue men has no basis in scripture... it is contrary to scripture... I didn't say anything about people doing it anyway... but it is an unbiblical practice and a form of rebellion.

 

[BarlyGurl]

Growing up, I was always reminded of the verse:
He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD. Pr 18.22
Considering that verse, I was taught that it was the husband's duty to FIND, and the wife's duty to be FOUND or DISCOVERED.

However, since that time, I learned about Ruth. Guess what? Virtuous Ruth pursued and proposed to Boaz. Wow! That was so different from what I was taught growing up. Not that Pr 18:22 is null and void or anything, but there are two perspectives on the issue rather than just one, so there is Biblical evidence of a virtuous woman pursuing a husband.

Reference: Book of Ruth Chapter 3

RUth did not PURSUE Boaz EVER. SHe submitted to Naomi who instructed her on how to go about being NOTICED by Boaz. Naomi also instructed Ruth how to go about requesting Boaz redeem her from her widowhood according to th Customs. Ruth is a form of ARRANGED marriage... and it is a mistake to construe the story of Ruth's REDEMPTION as an example of how to pursue a man. AGAIN the book of RUTH is about REDEMPTION by a KINSMAN REDEEMER (hint hint) not a social mating guide.

 

[proverbs35]

Ruth did in fact propose to Boaz. Scripture speaks for itself.

He said, "And who are you?" She said, "I am Ruth, your maiden; take me under your protecting wing. You're my close relative, you know, in the circle of covenant redeemers - you do have the right to marry me." Ruth 3:9 MSG

And he said, Who are you? And she answering said, I am your servant Ruth: take your servant as wife, for you are a near relation. Ruth 3:9 BBE

"Who are you?" he asked. "It's Ruth, sir," she answered. "Because you are a close relative, you are responsible for taking care of me. So please marry me."
Ruth 3:9 GNT

"Who are you?" he asked. "I'm Ruth," she said. "You are my family protector. So take good care of me by making me your wife."
Ruth 3:9 NIRV

After Naomi's sons died, she told her daughters in law to return home to their own families. One daughter in law did just that. Ruth chose to stay and follow Ruth of her own accord. She was not forced, and no else made this decision for her. Although, Ruth did follow Naomi's advice concerning Boaz, the marriage was not arranged. In arranged marriages, women had little to no say so. Marriages were usually arranged by FATHERS or MALE family members - not women. That is not the case here. Also, with arranged marriages, the father or male family members made all the wedding arrangements. However, Ruth 3:9, show us that Ruth spoke directly to Boaz herself. There was no Father or male family member speaking and/or making arrangements for her. She spoke for herself, and she spoke directly to Boaz and proposed to him. Ruth 3:9

But Naomi said, “Return home, my daughters. Why would you come with me? Am I going to have any more sons, who could become your husbands? Return home, my daughters; I am too old to have another husband. Even if I thought there was still hope for me—even if I had a husband tonight and then gave birth to sons— would you wait until they grew up? Would you remain unmarried for them? No, my daughters. It is more bitter for me than for you, because the Lord’s hand has gone out against me!” At this they wept again. Then Orpah kissed her mother-in-law good-by, but Ruth clung to her.“Look,” said Naomi, “your sister-in-law is going back to her people and her gods. Go back with her.”But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me.” When Naomi realized that Ruth was determined to go with her, she stopped urging her. Ruth 1:11-18

 

[BarlyGurl]

Ruth did in fact propose to Boaz. Scripture speaks for itself. Yes I agree it does, and I plainly stated NAOMI instructed RUTH on how to REQUEST BOAZ REDEEM her from her widowhood.

He said, "And who are you?" She said, "I am Ruth, your maiden; take me under your protecting wing. You're my close relative, you know, in the circle of covenant redeemers - you do have the right to marry me." Ruth 3:9 MSG
HERE she informs him who she is and what the custom relationship is... As she had been instructed by NAOMI
And he said, Who are you? And she answering said, I am your servant Ruth: take your servant as wife, for you are a near relation. Ruth 3:9 BBE

"Who are you?" he asked. "It's Ruth, sir," she answered. "Because you are a close relative, you are responsible for taking care of me. [COLOR="blue"]So please marry me.[/COLOR]"
Ruth 3:9 GNT

"Who are you?" he asked. "I'm Ruth," she said. "You are my family protector. So take good care of me by making me your wife."
Ruth 3:9 NIRV

After Naomi's sons died, she told her daughters in law to return home to their own families. One daughter in law did just that. Ruth chose to stay and follow Ruth of her own accord. She was not forced, and no else made this decision for her True, but what does her wiling submissin o stay with Naomi have to do with anything... the arranged marriages do not equate FORCED. Although, Ruth did follow Naomi's advice concerning Boaz, the marriage was not arranged. Sorry But I will correct you again as the scripture you used to support your erroneous understanding clearly speaks of the KINSMAN REDEEMER CUSTOM I previously mentioned which is in fact what the ENTIRE BOOK IS ABOUT. In arranged marriages, women had little to no say so. Marriages were usually arranged by FATHERS or MALE family members - not women. That is not the case here. Also, with arranged marriages, the father or male family members made all the wedding arrangements. However, Ruth 3:9, show us that Ruth spoke directly to Boaz herself. There was no Father or male family member speaking and/or making arrangements for her. SHe Spoke according to the instruction of Naomi who schooled her about the KINSMEN REDEEMER Custom she otherwise would not have known about as she was Naomi's daughter in LAW, having been married and then widowed according to Naomi's Custom. She went to BOAZ because HE was the unmarried near relative elligable to redeem her, not because she saw him and wanted him and pursued him. THe entire scenario is carefully conducted under NAomi's Instructions according to the custom. ALL Ruth Did was make herself known of Boaz and submit to him a private request that he perform HIS DUTY according to the custom. Further, Boaz once being made aware of the situation had to go conduct a contract transaction with his "cousin" who was a CLOSER relative and first obligator to dutifully REDEEM Ruth. She spoke for herself, and she spoke directly to Boaz and proposed to him. Ruth 3:9 She did speak discreetly directly to Boaz, Had there beena FATHER or Father in LAW... that man would have simply gone to Boaz and MAde contract for her with Boaz. Since NO man was available... NAOMI instructed RUTH on how to make herself known to, get noticed by, and then present her request for redemption from her widowhood to BOAZ since women absolutely DID NOT pursue men during this period of TIME... UNLESS THEY WERE HARLOTS. I don't really think God has changed his attitude about women who pursue men... regardless of modern cultural attitudes indicating a mating game free for all is scriptural.


AGAIN the book of RUTH is about REDEMPTION by a KINSMAN REDEEMER (hint hint) not a social mating guide.