"Leading"

[Shepherd]

On the flip side as the "help meet" I've asked my husband several times to get certain things in writing. Like a new cell phone contract where he is told it will cost "x" amount due to a special sale but then they charge "y" amount and claim there was no special sale and that the agent who sold him on the deal was misinformed. Despite reminding husband to get it in writing so we have proof, he usually forgets and then it's our word against a gaslighting company.

How should I let him lead in this somewhat similar scenario? Do I just shut up at this point in our marriage (20 years in) or do I continue trying to be the help he desired when we married and remind him to get everything in writing? Am I allowed to question or give an alternate perspective that he might not have thought of or do I just smile and nod and let him flounder? Because im getting the impression here that a wife showing frustration, asking for clarification, or debating about doing it differently than husband is viewed as usurping authority or something.

We have been married 41 years. Yes, my wife has questioned me on things many times and still does. I listen. But the final decision and the consequences thereof are supposed to be mine because I am supposed to be the "head" of the home. Yes, you try to advise your husband, and that is good; two heads are better than one. But the final decision should be his and he shouldn't catch any grief from you about it. Let him make mistakes; he will learn from them if he is a wise man. I once heard an "HR" manager say you're exp[ected to comply unless it's illegal, immoral, or unsafe". Unless your husband wants you to help him rob a bank, lie and cheat, or jump without a parachute, that bit of wisdom should suffice. But this thread is about pastors/church leaders placing all of the responsibility, for the progress or demise, of the family on husbands and zero on wives.

I've heard pastors say stupid stuff like (paraphrasing) "If a husband would just 'lead' the wife would have no trouble following". That is baloney, It's not in the Bible....you know the Bible? Where we are supposed to get our theology and instructions for daily living? And it's NOT women's fault! Such pastors are feeding them a line of garbage, I guess because they don't have the guts to take a stand against "feminism" while the divorce rate, even among Christians" remains inordinately high.

 

[SomeDisciple]

. But the final decision should be his and he shouldn't catch any grief from you about it.

Fine; but don't ever expect your leaders to hear your grievances then.

 

[Aaron56]

Just my 2¢...

We lead primarily through example not verbal instruction. Authority from the Lord given to one is meant to alleviate the burden life in this fallen world of the other. Incidentally, we know this by how the Lord led His disciples while on earth.

What is often missing today, among God's people, is a reliable means of appeal. What if, for example, the husband is wrong about something and the wife knows it? Should she argue with her spouse to get him to change? That puts the burden of convincing the man to change on the wife. She may do so and be able to do it well but it's an unjust burden on the wife.

A better arrangement is to appeal to an elder, one the husband and the wife both receive as the one who watches over their souls. Such an elder should not be led by personal favoritism or family connections, but by the Spirit of the Lord and have a track record of doing so. They should also know the husband and wife very well: if you're watching over the soul of someone this is axiomatic.

Then, the wife, after addressing the issue with her husband and getting no where, she may appeal to the elder who will then call on the husband to address the issue. The elder, then, takes up the responsibility of addressing the husbands issue. And, if they are wrong about something that leads to sin, the elder may work with the man so that he can see his error. The goal being: to rescue him from making a decision that has serious consequences.

This is a grace that has largely been lost in the church. The church was designed to organize organically like the household (family) of God, where the more mature have a responsibility to the younger. By this, the governmental structure of a church is intimately connected via personal relationships recognized as those God put together. Instead, many hire pastors from seminaries who do not know the people (the Roman model) and are given authority over groups by equally disconnected office-holders. If a local church has no local shepherd to do the work so much so that a stranger must be sent from afar to fill the void of a shepherd the church is not healthy and is in need of remedial care. (Please don't confuse this with sending an apostle to identify the shepherds/elders... although the rejection of the apostolic grace is a large reason the church uses hirelings as their source of preaching and teaching.)

 

[pinebeach]

this thread is about pastors/church leaders placing all of the responsibility, for the progress or demise, of the family on husbands and zero on wives.

However, I am confused as to why you insist you are the final word on everything but then somehow think it is unfair to, according to where you go to church at least, place all responsibility for progress etc on husbands.

I mean if you, the man, would like some shared responsibility with the end result in your marriage, then perhaps sit down with your wife and give her some responsibility and see how that goes. She must be responsible somewhere or I doubt she would be the bookkeeper at your business.

Frankly, the situation you describe sounds like something more than emails.

 

[Snackersmom]

You have missed or ignored the point of this whole post.

Ok, so what IS the point exactly?

You've said it's to indict pastors for not admonishing wives enough, but I don't get why you need them to. You are the pastor of your own home. It doesn't matter whether some random dude in a pulpit calls you a "head" or a "leader" (how on Earth is that term supposed to be "emasculating"?), or a one-eyed jelly-legged dingoe dog.

Well ok the last one would be inappropriate. But still... what the pulpit dude calls you won't change who you are. If your church isn't preaching the full counsel of God then switch churches. That's the nice thing about churches, we can change to another if we don't agree with the leadership. Not so in a marriage so choose your husband wisely, ladies!

As a side note, you seem to have been awfully affected by that Father's day sermon, you've referenced it several times in this thread and also in another thread. I'm sorry it had such a negative effect on you but if it wasn't deserved then why ya letting it bother ya so much? Pulpit dudes say and do some dumb stuff, but that doesn't make them responsible for what happens in YOUR home.

And I'm sorry, but if you want 100% authority then you have to accept 100% responsibility. Otherwise you are giving your lady responsibility without authority, which you personally stated would not be fair to do to a man so how would it be fair to do to your wife?

Another side note..... you said you weren't trying to paint your wife in a bad light, but does she know you're telling random strangers about 2 of her supposed blunders? Is that something you'd be OK with her doing to you, if the tables were turned?

And now that you've given us 2 examples wherein we are supposed to take your word that she was unwise or insubordinate, would you be willing to give us a good-faith example of a time when she questioned you, and she was right and you were wrong? Just so we can see what a healthy real-world example would look like, since you apparently don't mind when she questions you (sorry for misunderstanding about that).

Best!

 

[Snackersmom]

Hi @Shepherd , me again.... something was bugging my memory so I looked back at some old threads you've started. You referenced that Father's day sermon in all 4 of them.

Truly, I'm sorry it affected you so much. Pastors say some dumb stuff. My pastor stated on Mother's day that the highest calling a woman can attain is to raise a Godly child. Well that's just great, I had always wanted to be a mom but at this stage of my life its not looking likely. However, what he preached is not in the Bible and it's my job to know that. It's also my job to not go have a baby simply because my pastor implied that Moms are more spiritual than other women.

There's only so much power a pastors words should have. Pulpit dudes can definitely be wrong. I'm really sorry if encouragement is what you were needing on Father's day and you got the opposite. Phooey on pulpit dude. But just like he can't do your job for you, he can't do your wife's job either.

So we're not saying that your pastor is right. It sounds like he probably isn't. But even if we agree with you there, it still doesn't ultimately change anything. It's pretty obvious from what you've posted in other threads that you have resentment towards your wife. Maybe some of it is justified. Heck, maybe ALL of it is. But venting about it here isn't going to fix it.

It honestly sounds like yall might need a mediator. Ideally a Godly couple who can work together and see both sides. I'm sure leading a family isn't easy. I'm sure submission isn't either. Room for grace is needed on both sides.

I wish you and your wife the best. 41 years is impressive for sure . And who knows, maybe the best is yet to come!

 

[Shepherd]

Thanks, I have received much enlightenment in this thread,. In a nutshell, this World wants men/husbands to shoulder all of the responsibility but with zero authority. Pastors haven't the guts to teach otherwise and from many of the comments in this thread, I can understand why.