FreeGrace2 said:
And ch 4 says nothing about any U-turn back to heaven.
Here's the problem. Pre-tribbers routinely use the 1 Thess passage as a rapture passage. Yet, there is NOTHING there about returning to heaven.
Well, 1Th4 is only speaking of the "caught up / caught away / snatch /
harpazo /
harpagēsometha / rapture /
rapier [G726]" item (and the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with / INDENTIFIED-with] Him" aspects)... not so much its TIMING in relation to other items.
That's where 2Th2 comes in (especially).
But, people very often mis-define words / terms / phrases... connect (as one) entirely distinct items... incorporate TWO items as being [said to be "FIRST"] rather than the ONE item that is said to be... routinely "skip back OVER and PAST" verse 2 [
as if it weren't even there!] to ascertain what v.3
A's 'that day' is speaking of (grammatical
faux pas to put it gracefully, lol)... ignore the fact that "the day of the Lord" (v.2) and "IN
THAT DAY" (also in the wider context) are speaking of the SAME [future] TIME-PERIOD just like they are used in such a way [together] in the OT prophecies... and ignore "how" Paul had already said it will "ARRIVE" (just like Jesus had described when He spoke of "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS"--not at the END of all that + more!)... etc...
Then, when many of us "pre-tribbers" try to spell out what Paul is conveying here (in vv.1-3 esp), the listener/poster will spit back something that doesn't even resemble what we've said (
in their supposedly "repeating-back-to-me-what-you-think-I'm-saying-of-it")... things like "the
rapture can't happen till the
rapture takes place".
Not at all what I've / we've said... but is a result of not being
able to wrench the faulty definitions out of the brain even for a minute to "try on for size" the explanation being given.
If you could see my "explanations" on that passage (as they are... and I think they are in those three linked posts), then you could see why I am saying "we will
not be here present on the earth for the ARRIVAL of the DOTL
earthly time-period when the man of sin WILL be present--for the whole 7 years!"
So... do you think I would follow up
that ^ sentence by saying:
1) we'll hang up in the clouds
for all 7 years (
) ;
OR
2) we're in the Rev5:
9 wording saying "hast redeemed
US" (in that scene
IN HEAVEN,
b/f the FIRST SEAL is opened--when Jesus will 'STAND to JUDGE' [btw, "present"
= "from
para and
histémi "... from that last post...])" ?