Let’s dissect judgement

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Let’s dissect the act of judgement by drawing on the word of our Lord and Savior. Let’s dig deep into our souls and comment. Let’s challenge ourselves to honestly see the act for what it is. Let’s encourage each other as we transform our hearts into our Lord’s likeness.

Definition:
(1) Moral judgments about actions being right or wrong; (2) Moral judgments about people being good or bad; (3) Moral judgments about traits of character being good or bad, being virtues or vices.

The most known scripture . . .
Matthew 7: 1-6, “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

WHO DID I JUDGE TODAY AND WHAT DID I DO OR WILL DO

I have a co-worker who has a full-time job but works it like a part-time job. He walks in the door late and instantly I discount what he says because I blanket judgement on him for his work ethic. I re-group, remind myself he is loved by Him and end the sketchy conversation with as much friendship as I am able to muster. Really pitiful to say the least yet at least an attempt until the next time.

 

[Live4Him]

Let’s dissect the act of judgement by drawing on the word of our Lord and Savior. Let’s dig deep into our souls and comment. Let’s challenge ourselves to honestly see the act for what it is. Let’s encourage each other as we transform our hearts into our Lord’s likeness.

Definition:
(1) Moral judgments about actions being right or wrong; (2) Moral judgments about people being good or bad; (3) Moral judgments about traits of character being good or bad, being virtues or vices.

The most known scripture . . .
Matthew 7: 1-6, “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

WHO DID I JUDGE TODAY AND WHAT DID I DO OR WILL DO

I have a co-worker who has a full-time job but works it like a part-time job. He walks in the door late and instantly I discount what he says because I blanket judgement on him for his work ethic. I re-group, remind myself he is loved by Him and end the sketchy conversation with as much friendship as I am able to muster. Really pitiful to say the least yet at least an attempt until the next time.

Hi, ITIS4HISGLORY.

In my estimation (and this isn't aimed directly at you), this portion of scripture is one of the most misapplied portions of scripture in the Bible. In other words, whereas it's regularly (mis-) used by many to condemn "judging", that isn't what Jesus was actually saying here. Let's reexamine the text.

Matthew chapter 7

[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
[6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

The issue here isn't really judging, but rather hypocritically judging others in relation to that which we're presently more guilty of than they are (a beam vs. a mote). In other words, if we FIRST deal with the sinful issue in our own lives (cast the beam out of our own eye), then we can address the same sin in someone else's life in the proper manner (see clearly to cast the mote out of our brother's eye). By "the proper manner", I'm suggesting a sense of humility as opposed to self-righteousness in that we were once guilty of the very same thing that our brother is currently guilty of.

Please also notice that Jesus cautioned us in relation to properly dealing with "dogs" (a derogatory term) and "swine" (ditto). How can we ascertain who these types of people are without some form of judgment? In my estimation, these types are those who will not only oppose any sort of reproof that is designed to help them, but will also trample God's word under their feet while basically tearing the messenger of the same to pieces.

As far as the example of your co-worker is concerned, yes, we shouldn't make a blanket judgment without even knowing the details of someone else's life. Maybe they're habitually late because they don't have a car and have to rely on public transportation. Maybe they have children and need to drop them off at daycare before coming to work. Maybe it's something else that doesn't truly reflect any negative characteristic of their own or maybe they simply are irresponsible and should be called out on it.

About 31 years ago, as a relatively new believer in the Lord myself, I was used by the Lord "instrumentally" (we can only plant and water by using that which the Lord has given us...he alone can give the increase) to help lead a co-worker of mine to God through Christ. About a year after that, our company was sold and relocated out of state, so my co-worker (now my friend and brother in the Lord) and I were out of jobs. I was the first to find a new job, and I recommended my friend to my boss as my new company was looking for another employee. My friend got the job based upon my recommendation, and he was late for work every single day for about the first two months straight. I questioned him about this several times, and he truly was being totally irresponsible. I mean, he was doing things like casually grocery shopping for cases of Snapple and the like, and this is why he was late for work every single day. I counseled him repeatedly to be more responsible while telling him that he was not only being a bad example for Christ, but also making me look bad as the one who had recommended him for the job. To make a long story short, my boss fired him after two months, and I actually thanked my boss for doing so.

Did I wrongly judge my friend?

No, I don't believe that I did at all.

I showed up for work on time every day, and he could have easily too...if he but wanted to.

Anyhow, just my two cents worth.

 

[Lanolin]

well Jesus was late in getting to Lazarus but He had his reasons.

I think lateness isnt really a moral issue, though it makes things difficult to get started.
I think being late (according to whos time?) means you end later to make up for it or you miss out. when people are late, they might work harder in the less time they have.

some people cant help it, and so they might be more suited to jobs where they have more flexibility. Some jobs have 'glide time'.
sometimes you just need to be forgiving.

the other thing is, the parable of the workers of the vineyard. God (or the boss) paid all his workers the same whether they started early or late. The earlier workers complained of course but they had all agreed to be paid the same. And you do not know what the late workers had been doing before they were called in. It might have been something important that they had to attend to and they were not free.

why do people assume that its always deliberate laziness on the late peoples part?

 

[Lynx]

Hmm... If I walked outside every day and greeted my dog with a swift kick in the ribs, my dog would soon stop hanging around the front door. (Also somebody needs to put me away, because I have done flipped my lid... I LIKE dogs.)

Is my dog judging me?

My point is, there is a distinct difference between judging somebody and learning from experience. If an employee is late, that is one data point against him. If he does his job diligently when he does get there, that is one data point in his favor. If everything I know about him is contradictory to the part about being late, I'll probably ask him why he's late, because that doesn't fit with the rest of his character.

If a "friend" only calls me up when he needs a ride somewhere, but never has the time to talk to me otherwise, I'm going to make some assumptions about the nature of our friendship, and probably stop putting any effort into the friendship. Is that the kind of judgment the Bible was talking about in Matthew?

On the other hand if a good friend suddenly goes radio-silence for three months and I assume he has just turned into a total jerk because he hasn't even said hi... yeah, that would be a bit judgmental. I should at least find out what's going on in his life first.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Yes, I believe in your case it was done by the word.

In my case, the employee is doing exactly what your friend did but the employee is not a believer. There is no supervision because I work at a remote site. If I call him out on his negligence, and it is gross negligence like working only 6 of the 8 hours paid, he will devise a plan to hurt me. Since he is not a believer and I know he has the capacity to disrupt my life (it will never happen but it will make life uncomfortable), the only way to cope is to ignore his sin, the only way he knows how to operate as a non-believer. So, to judge a person who knows no other way and has effectively fooled our boss, I must find a way to love him. It is just really hard because he is essentially stealing, lying and I have a hard time being around people with a seared conscience.

 

[cinder]

In my case, the employee is doing exactly what your friend did but the employee is not a believer. There is no supervision because I work at a remote site. If I call him out on his negligence, and it is gross negligence like working only 6 of the 8 hours paid, he will devise a plan to hurt me. Since he is not a believer and I know he has the capacity to disrupt my life (it will never happen but it will make life uncomfortable), the only way to cope is to ignore his sin, the only way he knows how to operate as a non-believer. So, to judge a person who knows no other way and has effectively fooled our boss, I must find a way to love him. It is just really hard because he is essentially stealing, lying and I have a hard time being around people with a seared conscience.

So your argument and conclusion is because he isn't a believer he doesn't know that only working 6 out of 8 hours he's paid for is a dishonest and incorrect thing to do? And if you have a responsibility to love everyone, that also includes loving you boss which means that you don't just sit by while someone steals from him.

But to the larger question of what does that Matthew 7 passage mean:

1) live up to your own standards and apply them equally to everyone (most of us fail at this in some respect, usually by ascribing poor motives to another person for an action that we justify for ourselves (nabbing the last close parking space, being rude to the waitress or other service worker, co-workers who seem to not pull their own weight while when we don't attend to our work with exceptional dilligence we have a good reason, etc)).

2) Don't take a person's single action or ascribed motivation as the final word on their character. Always leave room for people to improve and change and to re-evaluate the kind of person they are.

3) Don't condemn or complain about someone who does the same thing you do or would do if you were in their shoes.

 

[Lanolin]

um
how do you know 'he will devise a plan to hurt me'

so what.
if someone else is late and that means you cant even start YOUR job without them its fine to call them on it.

Dont you have faith in a God who will do what is right? if everyone was too scared to speak up about wrongs (whatever it is) because they believed they would get hurt then then you just end up getting hurt and suffer anyway.

say you got raped and then didnt tell the police or anyone cos you were scared to report it. Who suffers? YOU. And that person who raped you then thinks they can get away with it, and they may even be raping others.
Or stealing or lying, cheating or anything else.

 

[Lanolin]

In the Bible, it says if you got raped you have to scream.
if you dont, and just stay silent, you are complicit.

 

[Lanolin]

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

sometimes I think those teaching were written for men to get through their thick heads. Although this is why some people gag others to stop them from screaming or saying anything.

of course nobody likes a grass or informant etc but why, if you are innocent and havent done anything wrong you arent the one going to be in trouble. if you live in a culture where you can bribe you way out of things (or sue others?) maybe but in Bible times this wasnt the case.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

sometimes I think those teaching were written for men to get through their thick heads. Although this is why some people gag others to stop them from screaming or saying anything.

of course nobody likes a grass or informant etc but why, if you are innocent and havent done anything wrong you arent the one going to be in trouble. if you live in a culture where you can bribe you way out of things (or sue others?) maybe but in Bible times this wasnt the case.

um
how do you know 'he will devise a plan to hurt me'

so what.
if someone else is late and that means you cant even start YOUR job without them its fine to call them on it.

Dont you have faith in a God who will do what is right? if everyone was too scared to speak up about wrongs (whatever it is) because they believed they would get hurt then then you just end up getting hurt and suffer anyway.

say you got raped and then didnt tell the police or anyone cos you were scared to report it. Who suffers? YOU. And that person who raped you then thinks they can get away with it, and they may even be raping others.
Or stealing or lying, cheating or anything else.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

sometimes I think those teaching were written for men to get through their thick heads. Although this is why some people gag others to stop them from screaming or saying anything.

of course nobody likes a grass or informant etc but why, if you are innocent and havent done anything wrong you arent the one going to be in trouble. if you live in a culture where you can bribe you way out of things (or sue others?) maybe but in Bible times this wasnt the case.

Jesus said to them, “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves” (Matthew 10:16, KJV).

I am not even part of it. I am light admidst darkness. His repeated excuses fall on deaf ears because they are lies. I continue to smile without response. He intuitively knows I am not fooled yet I say nothing. I need my job to support my daughter thus I say nothing.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Hi, ITIS4HISGLORY.

In my estimation (and this isn't aimed directly at you), this portion of scripture is one of the most misapplied portions of scripture in the Bible. In other words, whereas it's regularly (mis-) used by many to condemn "judging", that isn't what Jesus was actually saying here. Let's reexamine the text.

Matthew chapter 7

[1] Judge not, that ye be not judged.
[2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
[3] And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
[4] Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
[5] Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
[6] Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

The issue here isn't really judging, but rather hypocritically judging others in relation to that which we're presently more guilty of than they are (a beam vs. a mote). In other words, if we FIRST deal with the sinful issue in our own lives (cast the beam out of our own eye), then we can address the same sin in someone else's life in the proper manner (see clearly to cast the mote out of our brother's eye). By "the proper manner", I'm suggesting a sense of humility as opposed to self-righteousness in that we were once guilty of the very same thing that our brother is currently guilty of.

Please also notice that Jesus cautioned us in relation to properly dealing with "dogs" (a derogatory term) and "swine" (ditto). How can we ascertain who these types of people are without some form of judgment? In my estimation, these types are those who will not only oppose any sort of reproof that is designed to help them, but will also trample God's word under their feet while basically tearing the messenger of the same to pieces.

As far as the example of your co-worker is concerned, yes, we shouldn't make a blanket judgment without even knowing the details of someone else's life. Maybe they're habitually late because they don't have a car and have to rely on public transportation. Maybe they have children and need to drop them off at daycare before coming to work. Maybe it's something else that doesn't truly reflect any negative characteristic of their own or maybe they simply are irresponsible and should be called out on it.

About 31 years ago, as a relatively new believer in the Lord myself, I was used by the Lord "instrumentally" (we can only plant and water by using that which the Lord has given us...he alone can give the increase) to help lead a co-worker of mine to God through Christ. About a year after that, our company was sold and relocated out of state, so my co-worker (now my friend and brother in the Lord) and I were out of jobs. I was the first to find a new job, and I recommended my friend to my boss as my new company was looking for another employee. My friend got the job based upon my recommendation, and he was late for work every single day for about the first two months straight. I questioned him about this several times, and he truly was being totally irresponsible. I mean, he was doing things like casually grocery shopping for cases of Snapple and the like, and this is why he was late for work every single day. I counseled him repeatedly to be more responsible while telling him that he was not only being a bad example for Christ, but also making me look bad as the one who had recommended him for the job. To make a long story short, my boss fired him after two months, and I actually thanked my boss for doing so.

Did I wrongly judge my friend?

No, I don't believe that I did at all.

I showed up for work on time every day, and he could have easily too...if he but wanted to.

Anyhow, just my two cents worth.

I like your response because I would have responded similarly. I actually had a situation that ended the same way. Being new to this forum, I believe I may have unknowingly misled others with what I was hoping to receive. Other situations where a non-believer chose to become a believer because a person on this forum walk in the Spirit in such a way that lead them to Christ. I am struggling with this because my co-worker is really pushing me to accept the lies. So as graphic as it is written, I do not throw pearls before swine.

 

[Lynx]

Yes, I believe in your case it was done by the word.

In my case, the employee is doing exactly what your friend did but the employee is not a believer. There is no supervision because I work at a remote site. If I call him out on his negligence, and it is gross negligence like working only 6 of the 8 hours paid, he will devise a plan to hurt me. Since he is not a believer and I know he has the capacity to disrupt my life (it will never happen but it will make life uncomfortable), the only way to cope is to ignore his sin, the only way he knows how to operate as a non-believer. So, to judge a person who knows no other way and has effectively fooled our boss, I must find a way to love him. It is just really hard because he is essentially stealing, lying and I have a hard time being around people with a seared conscience.

Oh...

Well now I'm confused...

I thought this thread was talking about the line between adapting to circumstances and judging others. Now I get the impression the thread is about "I don't want to report my coworker for laziness because it would cause negative repercussions for me personally, but I'm not sure I can justify that against my work ethic and morality."

If my current (revised) impression of what you're going for is correct, I have a few thoughts but probably no solutions. I've been in similar situations, but never exactly the same situation.

I've been in workplaces where the manager doesn't give a flying flitter if employees do their jobs, and the manager himself goofs off. In that case my role is clear: I am paid to do my job. The manager is not doing his job, there is nothing I can do about it, and trying to do something about it is above my pay grade.

If I were working remotely like you, it would probably come down to a question of whether I thought reporting him would do any good. That would depend on my estimation of the diligence of the manager to whom I would be reporting it.

 

[Lanolin]

you are not going to lose your job because you havent done anything wrong. If the other person is late, its their problem, not yours.
You are not the one who is late.

If you LIE to cover someone else, YOU are the one already suffering.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Oh...

Well now I'm confused...

I thought this thread was talking about the line between adapting to circumstances and judging others. Now I get the impression the thread is about "I don't want to report my coworker for laziness because it would cause negative repercussions for me personally, but I'm not sure I can justify that against my work ethic and morality."

If my current (revised) impression of what you're going for is correct, I have a few thoughts but probably no solutions. I've been in similar situations, but never exactly the same situation.

I've been in workplaces where the manager doesn't give a flying flitter if employees do their jobs, and the manager himself goofs off. In that case my role is clear: I am paid to do my job. The manager is not doing his job, there is nothing I can do about it, and trying to do something about it is above my pay grade.

If I were working remotely like you, it would probably come down to a question of whether I thought reporting him would do any good. That would depend on my estimation of the diligence of the manager to whom I would be reporting it.

I have learned that I must step back from this forum due to everyone’s confusion. I have a different way of communicating that is in no way subjective. I am learning that many take my writing as subjective but in reality it is objective or intended to be thought provoking. As a general rule when seeking other believers ideas on a subject, I speak in parables. I suppose I was looking for how do others reach unbelievers when they clearly have road blocks. I wanted to hear how others have gone around the road blocks to reach them with the gospel.

 

[Lynx]

I have learned that I must step back from this forum due to everyone’s confusion. I have a different way of communicating that is in no way subjective. I am learning that many take my writing as subjective but in reality it is objective or intended to be thought provoking. As a general rule when seeking other believers ideas on a subject, I speak in parables. I suppose I was looking for how do others reach unbelievers when they clearly have road blocks. I wanted to hear how others have gone around the road blocks to reach them with the gospel.

Ah... I see...

Yes, that was... very, VERY different from what I thought you were trying to say, both times.

 

[Lanolin]

well, you can take a detour, if theres a road block, but the thing is only those who are working on the roads are allowed to be where the road block is. (for safety reasons)

when the holy spirit said to Paul and others they were not to go to Asia with the gospel they listened. There was probably a good reason. This isnt to say that Asia was not open later. But they didnt blast their way in, even if they had wanted to go.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

I do love Paul. Also through the Spirit they urged Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. ... Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, "The Holy Spirit says, `In this way the Jews of Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles‘.

I am certainly not Paul but I do hope to be inspired by the Holy Spirit at that very moment I am shown a way around the road block. I just do not want to give up even if a hand grenade is launched unexpectedly. I am of the Billy Graham era. I was in awe watching his boldness at one of his crusades. To be so filled with the Spirit to help thousands search their souls and accept our Lord and Savior. I just can’t wait to meet them all one day.

 

[cinder]

I do love Paul. Also through the Spirit they urged Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. ... Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, "The Holy Spirit says, `In this way the Jews of Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles‘.

I am certainly not Paul but I do hope to be inspired by the Holy Spirit at that very moment I am shown a way around the road block. I just do not want to give up even if a hand grenade is launched unexpectedly. I am of the Billy Graham era. I was in awe watching his boldness at one of his crusades. To be so filled with the Spirit to help thousands search their souls and accept our Lord and Savior. I just can’t wait to meet them all one day.

Huh? The passage you quoted had nothing to do with overcoming road blocks. Best lesson I could ever find from that episode is either that certain hardship isn't a reason to veer away from what God has called you to, even when God himself is confirming that hardship is certain through his prophet. Or else even the most spiritual of people can be determined to carry out their plan no matter how God tries to warn them off. Mostly the question I always run into in that story is, if Paul was determined enough to go to Jerusalem no matter what, why did God send a prophet to give him warnings of his arrest and suffering? Always seemed like a strange Biblical episode to me.

 

[ITIS4HISGLORY]

Huh? The passage you quoted had nothing to do with overcoming road blocks. Best lesson I could ever find from that episode is either that certain hardship isn't a reason to veer away from what God has called you to, even when God himself is confirming that hardship is certain through his prophet. Or else even the most spiritual of people can be determined to carry out their plan no matter how God tries to warn them off. Mostly the question I always run into in that story is, if Paul was determined enough to go to Jerusalem no matter what, why did God send a prophet to give him warnings of his arrest and suffering? Always seemed like a strange Biblical episode to me.

It did to me at one time also. Then, after a few years of studying and reading the same passage over and over again, I came to realize how I was viewing Paul. Paul is just like us living in a fallen state yet with the Holy Spirit to draw on and obey if we are listening. Our heavenly Father probably shook His head more than once with Paul “Oh no, here we go again”, summoning the angels to manipulate the least damaging outcome. I know I’ve had a few of these. So, Paul was determined even though he was warned but the Lord used the situation for good and Paul came out alive. It was this determination in Paul that made him the best candidate to bring the gospel to the gentiles. Paul was able to push extremes, killing christians and then putting himself in obvious danger. What I take from Paul is he knew the scriptures in and out and even though he was fooled in the beginning, this knowledge was so effective through the Holy Spirit in spite of his extremes.

 

[Lanolin]

well Jesus had to basically block Paul on the road to Damascus.
Paul was a determined character for sure.