lets talk about gay people!!!

[kaylagrl]

You have so much yet to learn. The Bible plainly tells us why they had to leave the garden (It's right there in the book, for us to read) They were not "booted out" as punishment, but rather, as the Bible clearly states, to keep them from continuing to eat of the Tree of Life..... so that they would be able to die. This was one of the most loving and merciful things God did for them.

Without death, salvation could not come. They would have had to live forever in an unsaved state.

I understand salvation.My point was there was consequence for their sin.They had to leave the beauty of paradise,the world God had wanted for them.Adam had to labor Eve had to have pain in childbirth.The whole order of the world changed.Sin separated them from God.Jesus brought us back again.If we repent the relationship is restored.

 

[Willie-T]

I understand salvation.My point was there was consequence for their sin.They had to leave the beauty of paradise,the world God had wanted for them.Adam had to labor Eve had to have pain in childbirth.The whole order of the world changed.Sin separated them from God.Jesus brought us back again.If we repent the relationship is restored.

Well, I can't do much more than show you from several angles that we do not repent again and again.

Surely you are not still denying that "repenting" is changing your mind?

Well, at times when you sinned, did you actually change your mind about wanting to follow Jesus? I seriously doubt that.

So, here you are, sitting there with yet another sin that you did. (any and all of us) Are you telling me that you intend to change your mind about who you are believing in?

You believed in Jesus because you "repented" about what you believed, (this whole thing is about "believing", not about "doing" something wrong at some point), so are you now going to change your mind about who you believe in? Of course you aren't.

BTW, did you know that you cannot find, "repent of your sins" anywhere in the Bible? What you WILL find is "repent" (change your mind about who you want to follow), so that after you have changed your mind, (repented), your sins can be washed away.

 

[ForthAngel]

Well, I can't do much more than show you from several angles that we do not repent again and again.

Surely you are not still denying that "repenting" is changing your mind?

Well, at times when you sinned, did you actually change your mind about wanting to follow Jesus? I seriously doubt that.

So, here you are, sitting there with yet another sin that you did. (any and all of us) Are you telling me that you intend to change your mind about who you are believing in?

You believed in Jesus because you "repented" about what you believed, (this whole thing is about "believing", not about "doing" something wrong at some point), so are you now going to change your mind about who you believe in? Of course you aren't.

BTW, did you know that you cannot find, "repent of your sins" anywhere in the Bible? What you WILL find is "repent" (change your mind about who you want to follow), so that after you have changed your mind, (repented), your sins can be washed away.

You can't change your mind and turn to Christ without turning from your sins and turning to Christ

It's really not that difficult.

Unbelief is a sin, no?

 

[Willie-T]

You can't change your mind and turn to Christ without turning from your sins and turning to Christ

It's really not that difficult.

Unbelief is a sin, no?

Then if you have ever sinned since that day you were baptized, you must not have really turned from your sins. How can it be any other way?

BUT............ since that day you were baptized, you have not repented of wanting to follow Jesus. You've sinned, we all have, probably thousands of times, (demonstrating we are still FAR from turning from sinning..... since we all still do it all the time). but you have not "changed your mind" about Jesus, have you?

 

[kaylagrl]

Well, I can't do much more than show you from several angles that we do not repent again and again.

Surely you are not still denying that "repenting" is changing your mind?

Well, at times when you sinned, did you actually change your mind about wanting to follow Jesus? I seriously doubt that.

So, here you are, sitting there with yet another sin that you did. (any and all of us) Are you telling me that you intend to change your mind about who you are believing in?

You believed in Jesus because you "repented" about what you believed, (this whole thing is about "believing", not about "doing" something wrong at some point), so are you now going to change your mind about who you believe in? Of course you aren't.

BTW, did you know that you cannot find, "repent of your sins" anywhere in the Bible? What you WILL find is "repent" (change your mind about who you want to follow), so that after you have changed your mind, (repented), your sins can be washed away.

Oh ok so you're once saved always saved,I get it now.It would derail the thread to discuss that.Maybe on another thread.

 

[Willie-T]

Oh ok so you're once saved always saved,I get it now.It would derail the thread to discuss that.Maybe on another thread.

Well, I have a hard time with OSAS, but if that is what you want to believe, I guess it could be true enough...... UNLESS you turn your back on God, and "repent"...... then you are in trouble, because you have, then, "changed your mind" about who you believe in and follow.

You see, we cannot accept man's idea of a word that does not match what it meant when it was written... just because some people now want it to mean something different.

The way so many look at "repent" today, makes it something we do to attain salvation. "I'll act right and proper, and that will save me." (I suspect that only works in the Catholic and Mormon churches..... or so they think.)

 

[ForthAngel]

Then if you have ever sinned since that day you were baptized, you must not have really turned from your sins. How can it be any other way?

BUT............ since that day you were baptized, you have not repented of wanting to follow Jesus. You've sinned, we all have, probably thousands of times, (demonstrating we are still FAR from turning from sinning..... since we all still do it all the time). but you have not "changed your mind" about Jesus, have you?

It doesn't mean be sinless. You go to major extremes on this subject. God is faithful to forgive us. Look what God told Israel:

Ezekiel 18
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? [SUP]30 [/SUP]“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.[SUP]31 [/SUP]Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? [SUP]32 [/SUP]For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

Clearly, repentance and turning from your sins and turning to God go hand in hand. I would say that they both qualify as saving faith when combined.

I have definitely turned from my sin since since they are no longer my master nor have 100% dominion and control over me. I am in no way perfect, but I am being conformed to the image of Christ daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. We are still in our sinful flesh but Christ conforms us to his own image over time. We will never be perfect this side of paradise though. That is not what this is about. Repent (turn from our old ways) and trust in Christ produces a saving faith. Then God will put his Spirit in us, give us a new heart, and by his own power conform us to the image of his Son.

Sin is no longer my master, Christ is, and I hope you can say the same. Interested in what these few angels have told you though.

 

[ForthAngel]

Well, I have a hard time with OSAS, but if that is what you want to believe, I guess it could be true enough...... UNLESS you turn your back on God, and "repent"...... then you are in trouble, because you have, then, "changed your mind" about who you believe in and follow.

You see, we cannot accept man's idea of a word that does not match what it meant when it was written... just because some people now want it to mean something different.

The way so many look at "repent" today, makes it something we do to attain salvation. "I'll act right and proper, and that will save me." (I suspect that only works in the Catholic and Mormon churches..... or so they think.)

It's not about works based salvation. We know works cannot save us, but you cannot separate repentance of sin from a saving faith. It's impossible. We know that faith without works is dead. Turning from our old ways and trusting in Christ is not a work, it's an act of God, not something we can do without Him. Faith is a gift.

 

[ForthAngel]

Never mind, you said angles.

 

[Willie-T]

The thing you guys might be getting hung up on is possibly thinking that the Jews were a rowdy, sinful group. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Their usual day was far more "Holy" (to use the word totally incorrectly... but, as most people see it) than our typical days are as Christians.

They were being encouraged by Jesus and the Apostles, NOT to turn from a life of debauchery, (which they wouldn't dream of leading) but rather to turn from believing in a system that was denying Jesus.

 

[Willie-T]

Never mind, you said angles.

As an interesting aside, just consider for a minute (and "honestly") what you were truly trying to do with that little cut.

If you say you see "nothing", then you would be the only reader here not seeing it.

 

[ForthAngel]

As an interesting aside, just consider for a minute (and "honestly") what you were truly trying to do with that little cut.

If you say you see "nothing", then you would be the only reader here not seeing it.

No, if you had said angels, I was interested in what these angels might have said to you. I had intent, but it wasn't malicious

Definitely would have changed my perception a bit about you though, I can be honest about that.

As far as what you said in the previous post before this one: You can't separate repentance (turning from sin) and a saving faith. If you read all of Ezekiel 18, God is clearly addressing sin of the Jews and telling them to repent (turn) from it and turn back to Him. This is the Gospel. Turn from your sinful ways (reject them) and turn to God. We are conceived in sin and it is our innate nature to sin. We can't claim saving faith and not turn from our sinful ways. Simple belief isn't enough if we still serve sin. In that case, our faith is dead and we are serving another master who isn't God.

Just a snippet from what God called the Israelites to turn from in Ezekiel

10 “If he fathers a son who is violent, a shedder of blood, who does any of these things 11 (though he himself did none of these things), who even eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor's wife, 12 oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, 13 lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.

Same is true for us. We can't serve sin and God.

Edit:
Also, the Jews were a rowdy sinful bunch. No one is righteous and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jews included. Jesus called them whitewashed tombs. Vipers. He told those he saved to go and sin no more. If we don't recognize we are sinners, then saving faith is impossible.

 

[Lynx]

You have so much yet to learn. The Bible plainly tells us why they had to leave the garden (It's right there in the book, for us to read) They were not "booted out" as punishment, but rather, as the Bible clearly states, to keep them from continuing to eat of the Tree of Life..... so that they would be able to die. This was one of the most loving and merciful things God did for them.

Without death, salvation could not come. They would have had to live forever in an unsaved state.

If that were true Enoch and Elijah wouldn't have a chance. They never died. Unless you believe God took them away to kill them in a private place where nobody would ever find the bodies...

 

[The_highwayman]

It's not about works based salvation. We know works cannot save us, but you cannot separate repentance of sin from a saving faith. It's impossible. We know that faith without works is dead. Turning from our old ways and trusting in Christ is not a work, it's an act of God, not something we can do without Him. Faith is a gift.

Saving faith is not a gift. The Bible says every man is given a measure of faith, whether they are saved or not[Rom 12.3]and every man has the knowledge of God whether they believe in what Jesus did or not[Rom 1.18-19]

You do nothing to receive the gift of salvation and righteousness except confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.
verbal confession and belief in your heart is exercising the faith God has already given you.

The gift of salvation is eternal life through Jesus Christ and also that you are made righteous instantly.

 

[The_highwayman]

If that were true Enoch and Elijah wouldn't have a chance. They never died. Unless you believe God took them away to kill them in a private place where nobody would ever find the bodies...

The Bible says this about Adam. in GEN 5.5

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

 

[ForthAngel]

Saving faith is not a gift. The Bible says every man is given a measure of faith, whether they are saved or not[Rom 12.3]and every man has the knowledge of God whether they believe in what Jesus did or not[Rom 1.18-19]

You do nothing to receive the gift of salvation and righteousness except confess with your mouth and believe in your heart.
verbal confession and belief in your heart is exercising the faith God has already given you.

The gift of salvation is eternal life through Jesus Christ and also that you are made righteous instantly.

Should have stopped at "You do nothing to receive the gift of salvation and righteousness"

When you add the preposition, you attach a work.

It is a gift:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[The_highwayman]

If you teach Christ crucified why was he killed? For a bag of skittles? NO!! To what? Take away the sins of the world!!! You cant preach Christ crucified and not talk about sin and repentance.Cant-do-it!

But you can without making GOd out to be angry with everyone until you believe...

I seem to recall it was For God so loved....not For God was so angry until you believe.

 

[The_highwayman]

Should have stopped at "You do nothing to receive the gift of salvation and righteousness"

When you add the preposition, you attach a work.

It is a gift:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Through faith is before the gift.....faith is confessing and believing...as Romans 10.9-10 states..

 

[Willie-T]

No, if you had said angels, I was interested in what these angels might have said to you. I had intent, but it wasn't malicious

Definitely would have changed my perception a bit about you though, I can be honest about that.

As far as what you said in the previous post before this one: You can't separate repentance (turning from sin) and a saving faith. If you read all of Ezekiel 18, God is clearly addressing sin of the Jews and telling them to repent (turn) from it and turn back to Him. This is the Gospel. Turn from your sinful ways (reject them) and turn to God. We are conceived in sin and it is our innate nature to sin. We can't claim saving faith and not turn from our sinful ways. Simple belief isn't enough if we still serve sin. In that case, our faith is dead and we are serving another master who isn't God.

Just a snippet from what God called the Israelites to turn from in Ezekiel



Same is true for us. We can't serve sin and God.

Edit:
Also, the Jews were a rowdy sinful bunch. No one is righteous and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Jews included. Jesus called them whitewashed tombs. Vipers. He told those he saved to go and sin no more. If we don't recognize we are sinners, then saving faith is impossible.

It might help a little to go read exactly who Jesus was addressing when made that remark. I don't believe you will find He was speaking to the honestly seeking multitudes.

We can get so very confused when we attribute things to the wrong groups. And it happens more often than you might guess.

 

[kaylagrl]

Well, I have a hard time with OSAS, but if that is what you want to believe, I guess it could be true enough...... UNLESS you turn your back on God, and "repent"...... then you are in trouble, because you have, then, "changed your mind" about who you believe in and follow.

You see, we cannot accept man's idea of a word that does not match what it meant when it was written... just because some people now want it to mean something different.

The way so many look at "repent" today, makes it something we do to attain salvation. "I'll act right and proper, and that will save me." (I suspect that only works in the Catholic and Mormon churches..... or so they think.)

Ok now Im confused.I thought you believed OSAS I dont. Skipping to your last sentence I agree with that.Acting like a good person wont save you.Its a heart matter.Not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing now.