Lets Talk Free Choice

[BeyondET]

I sorry as well Kaylagrl, please forgive me for derailing your thread, it's a good thread on the topic of free choice.

 

[Magenta]

you guys sound so hangry. here yah go.

That's right, it is refeed Friday!

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[Depleted]

Lynn,
I do not know if this true or not, but I have heard the reason for this is, because Gays and Lesbians find more acceptance in reformed churches than Armenian Churches?


Any truth to this?

They find love in them. The kind of love that accepts "we're all sinners in need of God." The kind of love that helps them learn how to get past that sin. The kind of love that doesn't hold their nose high and say, "At least I'm not that."

The largest church in our local presbytery happens to be right smack in the middle of the homosexual community in Philly. The homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about them. On the one hand, they're teaching it is a sin, but a sin like any other sin. A sin that can be healed, like any other sin area.

On the other hand, it's the only place in the entire city that brings meals, fellowship, and day-to-day help to people dying of AIDS. Not even the homosexual community wants to do that. And it is reaching people with sexual sin. They have a ministry for that. Included in that ministry is counseling. And included in that counseling is learning to forgive whoever caused the path to the sexual sin. (Often caused by same-sex rape or incest to children.)

Homosexuals are broken people. Terribly broken people. We don't turn away the broken, but that's not the same thing as agreeing that any particular sin is okay either.

What do you do, if you're one of the broken people who sees another broken person in your group becoming healed of the brokenness? That's why the homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about that church.

We don't think homosexuality is worse-than.

 

[sevenseas]

what is a refeed Friday?

is then when you forgot to feed the animals at the zoo and you advertise two for one priced tickets?

LOL!

 

[BeyondET]

That's right, it is refeed Friday!

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Wow that's a lot of food on a Friday afternoon...

 

[Magenta]

Wow that's a lot of food on a Friday afternoon...

Breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, and dessert for all

 

[BeyondET]

Don't forget faith is a gift of God so that no one should boast.
The faith that saved you according to your own words isn't yours, it was a gift of God. You can't say that God saved you because He saw that you had faith as opposed to somebody else who didn't, He gave you faith then saved you.

I will have to say the opposite that faith is like free will, God isn't going to force your faith upon you it's a free choice.

 

[BeyondET]

Breakfast, brunch, lunch, dinner, and dessert for all

Amen to that sister...

From BeyondET aka knucklehead.

 

[Depleted]

LOL any excuse! The charismatics seem more open to that sort of thing

Not true. My denomination used to be part of what was "United Presbyterian." It used to be assumed if you were Presbyterian, you were reformed. My denomination left them over if women could become elders. They decided to let women be elders, so we broke off. And, at the break off, they became Presbyterian Church of the USA, (PC-USA) and we became Presbyterian Church in (or of, always forget which) America. (PCA.) Well, many folks stuck with them, but still stuck with being reformed. Some would accept women teaching elders, (sort of like pastor, mostly teach), while others wouldn't. Both sides wanted to stay reformed.

And then it eroded from there to 1-2 years ago it split again. This time over if homosexuals could be Teaching Elders, Ruling Elders, AND deacons/deaconess. PC-USA accepted they could be all of the above, so the others had to leave.

It's really not a reformed/non-reformed issue. It's a "let's keep up with modern culture, instead of God" issue. Reformed doesn't always mean we make the right decision.

(Still think the stupidest reason my denomination split was over the question of if Christ death on the cross was in place before or after God made the universe. I have a strong position over that question, but it's such a silly question, I'm not splitting over it.)

 

[Depleted]

Now Lynn, you're not representing the other camps belief correctly. Choice doesn't save. It's all God and He saves.

What we're saying is out of His lovingkindness and mercy for all mankind He says we are saved by grace THROUGH faith.

God has given us the opportunity to believe and be saved or to reject His offer of salvation to our own peril.

He has given us the choice to choose life. Or choose death. He empowers us by His grace as we hear the gospel being preached. We are not saved by choice. We're saved by God's grace through faith.

I do get prevenient grace. It's God lets men decide of their own free will that they want to be saved. No matter how you slice it, it's "we choose."

And in that "we choose" comes "What if we want to unchoose?" And if you don't think that's a problem, you haven't been listening to the Arminian side. That's come up more than once by that side.

Never heard of prevenient grace before the last thread. Now I see it as a fancy way of saying, "God lets go of his sovereignty to let man choose him."

Now you're adding man's faith too.

 

[Depleted]

no those 3 in various other threads have stated matter of factually the Holy Spirit does not lead men to God. The Bible says they are wrong, despite their reasoning.

Question for "those 3." (Preach, Forth and Sov.)

I haven't been paying attention, so is this true?

(Hey, what can I say? I usually don't participate in Reformed bashing threads. Only joined these last two because I was lead to believe it was for understanding. Not true, but I'm gullible.)

 

[Depleted]

I hope this post doesn't come off as conceited, or I have some great insight that will forever put to rest the question.
Just that seeing members of the body of Christ slapping each other around is distressing.

Very distressing since the lead off was there would be no slapping of each other, yet got quite a bit of it, including from the one promising no slapping.

Solved the problem though. (Worked hard at reconciliation, but that wasn't to be.) Ignore works very well for me.

 

[Marano]

I will have to say the opposite that faith is like free will, God isn't going to force your faith upon you it's a free choice.

Then you're not disagreeing with me you're disagreeing with scripture.

[h=1]Ephesians 2:8New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,[/FONT]

 

[Meggido]

They find love in them. The kind of love that accepts "we're all sinners in need of God." The kind of love that helps them learn how to get past that sin. The kind of love that doesn't hold their nose high and say, "At least I'm not that."

The largest church in our local presbytery happens to be right smack in the middle of the homosexual community in Philly. The homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about them. On the one hand, they're teaching it is a sin, but a sin like any other sin. A sin that can be healed, like any other sin area.

On the other hand, it's the only place in the entire city that brings meals, fellowship, and day-to-day help to people dying of AIDS. Not even the homosexual community wants to do that. And it is reaching people with sexual sin. They have a ministry for that. Included in that ministry is counseling. And included in that counseling is learning to forgive whoever caused the path to the sexual sin. (Often caused by same-sex rape or incest to children.)

Homosexuals are broken people. Terribly broken people. We don't turn away the broken, but that's not the same thing as agreeing that any particular sin is okay either.

What do you do, if you're one of the broken people who sees another broken person in your group becoming healed of the brokenness? That's why the homosexual community can't quite figure out what to do about that church.

We don't think homosexuality is worse-than.

I also have and do minister with many homosexuals and do not think they are worse than.

I do not believe a open or closed practicing homosexual should be allowed to be ordained or teach or preach or be in ANY church leadership position though.

 

[Depleted]

I remember when I was 16 or so, shortly after my father died, wrestling with this question, although it wasn't really a question. It was just thoughts I wrote down, which I NEVER did, or do, in a composition book. I lost it maybe 35 years ago.

How can God give free will to a created being? Yet if He didn't, how can a being without freewill give TRUE love?
I remember at the time writing He must have given man free will or we would have been glorified robots that gave programmed love. Which isn't really love. Or, is it?
Well, if God didn't give freewill, then why would Adam and Eve EVER sin, and NOT do God's will always. But I distinctly remember writing that because of man's freewill, God has PAIN! Or sorrow.
Think about that. We can cause pain and grief to our Creator!
So we HAVE to have freewill to choose Jesus! You all know the Scriptures dealing with choosing Him.

BUT....

How can

Pssst. Either your phone kicked out or "stop texting while driving," but you kind of cut out in mid-sentence there. lol

 

[ForthAngel]

Question for "those 3." (Preach, Forth and Sov.)

I haven't been paying attention, so is this true?

(Hey, what can I say? I usually don't participate in Reformed bashing threads. Only joined these last two because I was lead to believe it was for understanding. Not true, but I'm gullible.)

Dunno. Seems us three have a bit of a fan club lately though. Haven't seen any reformed bashing threads either. Maybe I missed 'em.

 

[Magenta]

Then you're not disagreeing with me you're disagreeing with scripture.

Ephesians 2:8New King James Version (NKJV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Can you give the Scripture that states faith is forced on us against our will? Thank you

 

[kaylagrl]

You are listening! To the liars telling us what we're saying that we're not saying.

And you keep repeating it, which makes you a liar!

I'm done! Keep playing your game. Just don't expect me to trust anything you say because of the amount of lying you've done with what we're saying. And that definitely includes the junk about "I'm trying to understand." Bupkus! One must listen to understand. To the real words, not the constant line of junk circling in your head!

At one moment I think we're saying the same thing,the next we are not.Im not changing so who is? Simple,simple,simple truth. Holy Spirit,draws man,man responds and is saved by GOD not of himself.YOu are throwing things out there too that are not true in that I have never said man saves himself.


Im not a liar Lynn and I dont appreciate you of accusing me of being one.Thats very immature to me. I have never called you a liar,nor would I. When I quote from the Institutes you say you dont know the context. When I post the whole thing so you can know the context it still isn't right. I dont get it.

There is no game Lynn,Ive been upfront about what I believe and I said I would not change my mind.Calvin says God bars the way for some people. Then someone said God doesn't man does.So who is right,Calvin or God? I have said where I am stuck and you even said the same to forth yourself.If God elected some then others are made for destruction.They were created for that reason only.Now you can call me a liar all day.I do not care.No one is going to convince me God created people for destruction and others for heaven. People have a choice and they cannot blame God for their choice.


Quote "Just don't expect me to trust anything you say because of the amount of lying you've done with what we're saying"

Ridiculous Lynn Ive posted verses,Ive asked questions,Ive answered posts Ive done everything I could to see it your way. I cannot. The Gospel is for all,the Bible says so.Jesus died for all or He died in vein. If you think that makes me a liar I cannot change that. Charges are bought against both sides and I have not called you a liar.I simply say "no I dont believe that" and explain why.

Quote " And that definitely includes the junk about "I'm trying to understand." Bupkus!"

Understanding does not mean me changing my mind.I made that clear from the first. I say "well if some are elected then some are made for destruction" oh no,no thats not true!!! How is that not true? This is the tail chasing that I am getting tired of.


Quote " not the constant line of junk circling in your head!"

Thanks I appreciate that your opinion of me is so low.

 

[Meggido]

I will have to say the opposite that faith is like free will, God isn't going to force your faith upon you it's a free choice.

Many here believe they do not have any measure of personal faith and it is Christs faith that saves them or as marano said, you get it when you are elected. This is also why many reformed do not believe you can walk away from or lose Salvation

 

[Meggido]

LOL any excuse! The charismatics seem more open to that sort of thing

And you would be very wrong. This is one area Pentecostals and Charismatics do much damage on.