looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

If go by literally word by word, it will be difficult to meet requirements.
Lord have mercy.

It is the devil that tries to make it difficult.

Read the exact command in Exo 20:8-11 line by line, word for word.

It is a weekly reminder (a commemorative 24 hour period each week) that our God is Creator of all things.
In modern days (with our Gregorian calendar) we work our chosen line of work (fishing, carpentry, electrician, etc.) for 6 days (Sunday through Friday) and rest from this secular work on the Saturday sabbath.

 

[2Christ]

I'm looking for an explicit comment from Jesus that Gentiles needed to keep the Ten Commandments. Until Paul, all of the Apostles were Jewish men who ministered to Jewish people. Jesus commissioned Paul, and sent him to act as the Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul exhorted the children of his readers to obey their parents. He instructed the wives to help their husbands and for the husbands to love their wives. But he never instructs his readers to Keep the Weekly Sabbath.

i see a major problem with what you say here you have not taken what i wrote seriously about the great comission given to the disciples of Christ. here is it for you To view;

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
same for mark
Mrk 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.



Paul was not the only one who went to the gentiles they ALL did and what about Peter?

Many think Paul as the only one to go to the gentiles this is false indeed;

Act 15:7 And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Peter was the head of the church to the gentiles not Paul.
Jhn 21:15 So when they had broken their fast, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

Jhn 21:16 He saith to him again a second time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Tend my sheep.

Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

 

[Davidstarr]

And you need to understand Christians are under the Law of Christ being under the New Covenant rather than the law of Moses which was under the old covenant.

The law of Moses concerned things like sacrificing animals for sins. As Christians we do not do this. That law was nailed to the cross. Jesus is our sacrifice for sin.

The law of Christ INCLUDES the 10 commandments. All 10 precepts are riddled throughout the NT.
The first 4 concern our love for God. The last 6 are summarized by the command to love our neighbors.
There are both OT and NT texts that confirm this.

 

[ScooterJackson]

The law of Christ INCLUDES the 10 commandments. All 10 precepts are riddled throughout the NT.

True, except for the sabbath which has been upgraded to abiding in Christ at all time rather than honoring God just one day of the week on Saturday

 

[Churchgoer]

It is the devil that tries to make it difficult.

Read the exact command in Exo 20:8-11 line by line, word for word.

It is a weekly reminder (a commemorative 24 hour period each week) that our God is Creator of all things.
In modern days (with our Gregorian calendar) we work our chosen line of work (fishing, carpentry, electrician, etc.) for 6 days (Sunday through Friday) and rest from this secular work on the Saturday sabbath.

How about fire fighters, doctors, nurses, child care moms....

 

[ScooterJackson]

In modern days (with our Gregorian calendar) we work our chosen line of work (fishing, carpentry, electrician, etc.) for 6 days (Sunday through Friday) and rest from this secular work on the Saturday sabbath.

At my house we work Monday through Saturday and take Sundays off as our day of rest.

The Lord and His Apostles never taught anybody to observe Saturday as the sabbath because that's par of the law of Moses and we be not under Moses anymore because a greater than Moses is here now! (that would be Jesus Who replaced Moses as High Priest when Jesus took away the old covenant and replaced it with the New Covenant.)

 

[Davidstarr]

True, except for the sabbath which has been upgraded to abiding in Christ at all time rather than honoring God just one day of the week on Saturday

Nope, all ten. If one breaks even 1 of the 10 he/she is guilty of breaking the whole law.
Jesus never changed or did away with God's 7th day sabbath.
Heb 4:8 is just one text saying He did not. Because He never spoke of any other day as a day of rest.

And no, as I have said before, as Christians we worship (and honor) God every day, 24/7.
The 7th day sabbath is simply the only day (because it is a day of rest from our weekly labors) that people can assemble in a group for communal worship.

Nothing in the 4th commandment (Exo 20:8-11) states anything about worship.

 

[Churchgoer]

At my house we work Monday through Saturday and take Sundays off as our day of rest.

The Lord and His Apostles never taught anybody to observe Saturday as the sabbath because that's par of the law of Moses and we be not under Moses anymore because a greater than Moses is here now! (that would be Jesus Who replaced Moses as High Priest when Jesus took away the old covenant and replaced it with the New Covenant.)

Again my understanding is 7th day, which ever day you start counting.
Sunday is wonderful

 

[Davidstarr]

How about fire fighters, doctors, nurses, child care moms....

Like I said, the devil tries to make it difficult.

In a perfect world (the one that is yet to come) we will not need firefights, doctors, ambulances, emergency services on the sabbath day, policemen, etc.

But Jesus said it is lawful to good on the Sabbath. Even if it means saving the life of an animal that has fallen into a ditch.

 

[Davidstarr]

Again my understanding is 7th day, which ever day you start counting.
Sunday is wonderful

The bible starts the count at the 1st day of the week with the sabbath being on the 7th day.

All 4 gospels (twice in John) states Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week.

That makes Saturday the 7th day sabbath.

Let the bible tell you which day is the 1st, which day is the 7th.
Don't rely on the teachings of fallen men to tell you these things.

Certainly a person cannot decide for himself (herself) which day God has ordained.....

 

[Churchgoer]

Like I said, the devil tries to make it difficult.

In a perfect world (the one that is yet to come) we will not need firefights, doctors, ambulances, emergency services on the sabbath day, policemen, etc.

But Jesus said it is lawful to good on the Sabbath. Even if it means saving the life of an animal that has fallen into a ditch.

So ultimately we still go by Jesus teaching.

 

[Roger316]

Heb 4:1-11 Talks about God's rest.

We know it is talking about resting on the 7th day sabbath because of verses 4 and 10 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.... For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."
And in verse 9 the word "rest" ("sabbatismos" in the original Greek) specifically means the 7th day sabbath.
These verses point to both the 7th day sabbath of the 4th commandment (Exo 20:8-11) AND the first sabbath day in Gen 2:1-3
We know Jesus never changed the day from verse 8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day."
This leave verse 11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
An explicit command from Paul to "labour" to enter into this rest. The word "spoudazō" means to "endeavor with all our strength/might."
And includes a warning if we do not then we will eventually fall into unbelief. Unbelief in the Creator of all things. The one who made this world in 6 days and rested the 7th day.

No pagan god can claim creation of all things. This is what sets God (and Jesus) apart from the pagan theologies, practices, traditions.

On closer inspection, I think Paul is not talking about the Weekly Sabbath in that context.

Let's back up a few verses.

Hebrews 3:16-19

For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.​

The "rest" here is not a Weekly Sabbath rest from labor; it is entering into the promised land to rest from slavery and oppression by the Pharaohs of Egypt. This was literally true. Those who came out of Egypt did not enter the promised land; their children did. This helps his argument in that Paul is attempting to persuade the Hebrews to keep trusting in the promise of God that his son Jesus Christ is the messiah.

Hebrews 4:1-5

Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. ​

This is the same "rest" as in the previous chapter. In Jesus Christ, Israel will find her rest, which means that she will be freed from slavery to sin, and free from oppression from her enemies. From Paul's perspective, that hasn't happened yet. It will happen in the future. Not only Israel, but all of the children of God, both Jews and Gentiles will be freed from sin and oppression from enemies.

Paul calls this future time a Sabbath Rest; to come short of it is to fall away from the faith and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Jesus never changed or did away with God's 7th day sabbath.

Yeah, if we go with the sabbatarians we have to believe Jesus totally forgot to actually teach observing the sabbath in the New Covenant and He totally forget to include warnings in the New Covenant concerning what happens to those who refuse to observe Saturday sabbath.

The sabbatarians have exactly ZERO proof from the New Covenant that the Lord taught anybody to observe Saturday or that it's a sin or otherwise wrong to not observe Saturday. Sorry pal, you sided with those who are trying to get Christians to do what the Galatians did which is turn way from the Lord and go back to living under the law of Moses.

The 7th day sabbath is simply the only day (because it is a day of rest from our weekly labors) that people can assemble in a group for communal worship.

And you sabbatarians ignore the verses in the New Testament where the Apostles were having church services on Sunday.

These people only accept part of what God's Word teaches and throws the rest out.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Again my understanding is 7th day, which ever day you start counting.

In God's Word, Sunday is the first day of the week

Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday which is Pentecost (Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1)

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Colossians 2:16,17Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Why follow the shadow of things that were to come after Jesus has arrived where we can join Him in The feast of First Fruits?

Let no man therefore judge you concerning not observing Saturday sabbath seeing it's not a requirement given in the New Testament for salvation!

 

[Roger316]

i see a major problem with what you say here you have not taken what i wrote seriously about the great comission given to the disciples of Christ. here is it for you To view;

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
same for mark
Mrk 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.



Paul was not the only one who went to the gentiles they ALL did and what about Peter?

Many think Paul as the only one to go to the gentiles this is false indeed;

Act 15:7 And when there had been much questioning, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Brethren, ye know that a good while ago God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Peter was the head of the church to the gentiles not Paul.
Jhn 21:15 So when they had broken their fast, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

Jhn 21:16 He saith to him again a second time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Tend my sheep.

Jhn 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Do a survey of the epistles and find a statement by Peter, James, or John affirming or exhorting the Weekly Sabbath.

Edit: When Jesus commanded his apostles to teach others to "observe all that I commanded you, he was not talking about the Ten Commandments." He is talking about HIS teaching, such as the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Churchgoer]

In God's Word, Sunday is the first day of the week

Jesus was raised from the dead on Sunday which is Pentecost (Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1)

We see in Acts chapter 2 that the first church service was on Sunday (the day of Pentecost they were all with one accord in one place and received the outpouring of the Holy Ghost). And, the first public evangelism meeting was also held on Sunday out in the street after the Holy Ghost was poured out in the upper room (Acts 2:14-36)

Acts 20:7
The first day of the week, the Apostles came together to break bread

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

Colossians 2:16,17Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Why follow the shadow of things that were to come after Jesus has arrived where we can join Him in The feast of First Fruits?

Let no man therefore judge you concerning not observing Saturday sabbath seeing it's not a requirement given in the New Testament for salvation!

My understanding is one of 7, which ever you pick.
If want to do 7 out of 7, even better.

 

[ScooterJackson]

When Jesus commanded his apostles to teach others to "observe all that I commanded you, he was not talking about the Ten Commandments." He is talking about HIS teaching, such as the Sermon on the Mount.

Yes, the Doctrine of Christ and not the doctrine of Moses

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

People trying to follow the doctrine of Moses do not have salvation according to 2 John 1:9

My understanding is one of 7, which ever you pick.

No where in the New Testament did Jesus or His Apostles teach that Christians should observe just one day as being holy unto, the Lord.

Under the New Covenant we have been bought with a price we are not out own so we are expected to glorify the Lord in our bodies every day of our lives abiding in Him until we leave this life.

 

[Davidstarr]

At my house we work Monday through Saturday and take Sundays off as our day of rest.

The Lord and His Apostles never taught anybody to observe Saturday as the sabbath because that's par of the law of Moses and we be not under Moses anymore because a greater than Moses is here now! (that would be Jesus Who replaced Moses as High Priest when Jesus took away the old covenant and replaced it with the New Covenant.)

There is no command from Jesus that the 7th sabbath was changed or done away with.

 

[ScooterJackson]

There is no command from Jesus that the 7th sabbath was changed or done away with.

Jesus never taught to not kill animals to cover sin so should we be doing that as well?

And how do you explain that the New Testament lacks instructions requiring Christians to observe Saturday?

The NT provide a ton of instructions as well as warnings for not following God's instructions.

You are adding to the New Testament what it does not say.

Do people who do not observe Saturday sabbath go to hell???

 

[Davidstarr]

On closer inspection, I think Paul is not talking about the Weekly Sabbath in that context.

Let's back up a few verses.

Hebrews 3:16-19

For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.​

The "rest" here is not a Weekly Sabbath rest from labor; it is entering into the promised land to rest from slavery and oppression by the Pharaohs of Egypt. This was literally true. Those who came out of Egypt did not enter the promised land; their children did. This helps his argument in that Paul is attempting to persuade the Hebrews to keep trusting in the promise of God that his son Jesus Christ is the messiah.

Hebrews 4:1-5

Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. ​

This is the same "rest" as in the previous chapter. In Jesus Christ, Israel will find her rest, which means that she will be freed from slavery to sin, and free from oppression from her enemies. From Paul's perspective, that hasn't happened yet. It will happen in the future. Not only Israel, but all of the children of God, both Jews and Gentiles will be freed from sin and oppression from enemies.

Paul calls this future time a Sabbath Rest; to come short of it is to fall away from the faith and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You leave verses 4 and 10 out of the text of Heb 4:1-11 which means you can redefine what the text means. When, in fact those verses (actually 4-10) MUST be included in the context.