looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

Why did you say that "Moses wrote the ceremonial law"?

That's not what the text states (Exodus 24).

Here is the text below.

Exodus 24:3-4
When Moses came and told the people all the words and ordinances of the LORD, they all responded with one voice:
“All the words that the LORD has spoken, we will do.” And Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD.

Three times in two verses the same phrase is stated "ALL THE WORDS of the Lord"

That is a comprehensive description of the entire law.

Now you need to prove that Moses only wrote the ceremonial law and not the ten words, in the Book of the Covenant.

Of course Moses wrote down the 10 commands, in both Exodus AND Deuteronomy. But God wrote only the 10 commandments on stone NOT the ceremonial laws.

 

[Davidstarr]

If one law or letter of the law is void then the entire law is void.

Jesus said.

Matthew 5;18
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until
all is accomplished.

The fulfillment of the law must occur before even one letter of the law can pass away.

Has Jesus fulfilled the law or not?

He says also heaven and earth must pass.
Last I looked those are still here.

Fulfilling the law doesn't mean to make it void.
If the speed limit says 60MPH and obey that law then I have fulfilled the law.
Does that mean from now on I can travel at 80MPH. Or everyone that travels that road after me can now go 80MPH?

 

[Davidstarr]

I do not observe the Saturday Sabbath. If you had clue about the reality of purpose of the Law, you would know that your question is foolish. The Law of the Spirit is not a matter of rules but of life. A bird flies because it is a bird, not because it understands aeronautics. A believer lives righteously because it is in his nature, not because he opens his rule book to find out how he should behave.

Yes, there are times when believers ignore the inner witness. There are reasons for that. Paul and others pointed out that some behaviours are unbecoming and unacceptable. Jesus made it clear on the Sermon on the Mount that the law was inadequate for Kingdom living. Like all religion, Law works from the outside to try and make individuals conform to a certain standard. Like every religion, it does not work. God works from the inside, leading and guiding the believer in the righteous path of life.

I am not a Jew. The Law was given to Israel, not to the Gentiles. Humanity lived for thousands of years before the law was introduced. God set apart one nation in covenant relationship. God gave that one nation the Law. He did not give it the Egypt, Babylon, Greece or Rome. Acts 15 makes it clear what God requires of Gentile believers. The Sabbath is not given as a requirement.

Some people here seem to enjoy adding to the Word of God. The New Testament never commands believers to observe the Sabbath. Our "Sabbath" rest is found in Christ, not in refusing to turn on the light switch on a Saturday (that is considered to be work).



​

But there IS a command in the NT to keep the 7th day sabbath. I have posted it above.
You guys have just ignored what it said.
I believe I posted where ALL TEN of the commandments are shown in the NT.

Turning on a light switch is not in violation of the 4th commandment.
You have obviously never read the command for yourself.

 

[OMC]

But there IS a command in the NT to keep the 7th day sabbath

The NT never gives a command to keep the seventh‑day sabbath; it gives a command to enter Christ’s rest. Hebrews 4:11

 

[Davidstarr]

You misunderstand what I said.

The law (Exodus 20) is void and so are the ordinances.

The blood covenant based on the Book of the Covenant is void.

Does that mean you can murder or even think the thought?

Of course not.

Why?

Because God wrote agape love into our hearts and that love fulfills the requirements of the law.

1 John 3:14-15
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.

You might say you obey the ten commandments but John would say you need to love the brethren.

Loving your neighbor as yourself sums up last 6 of the 10 commandments (Rom 13:9).
You must also love God with all your heart, strength, might. That's the 1st four of the 10.
Both laws are OT too BTW.

Are you showing love for God if you have other gods before Him?
You make and worship graven images (false gods)?
Take His name in vain?
What about the ONLY one of the 10 commandments that actually IDs which God gave this law?
Our Creator (Exo 20:11). The other 9 do not say.
Without the 4th commandment how do you know which god you worship if he is not the Creator of all things?

Pagan religions have good laws concerning murder, theft, adultery, worshiping other gods besides their own, but without the 4th commandment the Creator is not there.

 

[Davidstarr]

The NT never gives a command to keep the seventh‑day sabbath; it gives a command to enter Christ’s rest. Hebrews 4:11

Heb 4:11 does not use the term "Christ's rest". You are redefining the text to make it seem to mean something you want it to mean.

Verses 4-10 shows the text is talking about the 7th day sabbath:
Heb 4:4 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works."
Which day is it talking about? Every day? If God had rested EVERY DAY then He would not have worked the other 6 days. This world would not exist.
Heb 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."
God's people follow His example and rest on the 7th day from our 6-day work week, just as God did on the first week of creation.
This puts a whole different light on verse 11 than you wish to consider.
Verse 11 is a direct command to labor (endeavor with all our strength/might) to enter into the 7th day sabbath rest.
If you don't you will fall into unbelief.
Unbelief in the Creator.

 

[OMC]

Heb 4:11 does not use the term "Christ's rest". You are redefining the text to make it seem to mean something you want it to mean

You’re right to call that out—Hebrews 4:11 does not literally say “Christ’s rest.” The Greek is:
Σπουδάσωμεν οὖν εἰσελθεῖν εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν “Let us therefore be diligent to enter into that rest.”
It does not say: “Let us therefore be diligent to keep the seventh day.”
The only explicit “seventh day” phrase is in v.4, quoting Genesis, to show how God rested. The command in v.11 is to enter God’s κατάπαυσις, which the chapter has already distinguished from:

The wilderness generation’s failure (3:18–19; 4:6)
Joshua’s Canaan rest (4:8)
And by implication, any merely temporal “day” that does not fulfill the promised “another day.”

So when I said “Christ’s rest,” I was summarizing the theological referent of “God’s rest” in Hebrews—God’s own rest, now offered in the Son (cf. Heb 1:1–3; 3:6, 14), not inserting a new phrase into the Greek.

Verses 4-10 shows the text is talking about the 7th day sabbath:
Heb 4:4 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works."
Which day is it talking about? Every day? If God had rested EVERY DAY then He would not have worked the other 6 days. This world would not exist.
Heb 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."
God's people follow His example and rest on the 7th day from our 6-day work week, just as God did on the first week of creation.
This puts a whole different light on verse 11 than you wish to consider.
Verse 11 is a direct command to labor (endeavor with all our strength/might) to enter into the 7th day sabbath rest.
If you don't you will fall into unbelief.
Unbelief in the Creator.

Hebrews 4:4 absolutely identifies the seventh day—no dispute.
But the writer uses that seventh day as the prototype of God’s own κατάπαυσις (rest), not as the object of the command in v.11.

The flow of vv.4–10 is not “the seventh day = the rest we must enter,” but “God’s seventh‑day rest = the pattern of the rest God still offers.”
Verse 8 is the key that breaks your chain: “If Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” That “another day” is explicitly not the seventh day of creation, because that day was already known.

Verse 9 says a σαββατισμός remains, but v.10 defines it: “he that is entered into His rest has ceased from his own works, as God did from His.”
The comparison is mode, not calendar—the believer ceases from works the way God ceased, not on the day God ceased.

Then v.11 commands diligence to enter that rest (εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν), the same rest of vv.3, 5, 10—God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”
Your reading makes v.8 meaningless (because the seventh day was already known and Joshua never changed it), collapses v.10’s “ceasing from works” into “ceasing from labor one day a week,” and forces v.11 to command a calendar when the Greek commands entry into God’s rest.
The text is about God’s rest, patterned on the seventh day, not a renewed seventh‑day command.
This is scripture, to deny it is to deny the work God has done and the rest he speaks of in Christ.

 

[Davidstarr]

You’re right to call that out—Hebrews 4:11 does not literally say “Christ’s rest.” The Greek is:
Σπουδάσωμεν οὖν εἰσελθεῖν εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν “Let us therefore be diligent to enter into that rest.”
It does not say: “Let us therefore be diligent to keep the seventh day.”
The only explicit “seventh day” phrase is in v.4, quoting Genesis, to show how God rested. The command in v.11 is to enter God’s κατάπαυσις, which the chapter has already distinguished from:

The wilderness generation’s failure (3:18–19; 4:6)
Joshua’s Canaan rest (4:8)
And by implication, any merely temporal “day” that does not fulfill the promised “another day.”

So when I said “Christ’s rest,” I was summarizing the theological referent of “God’s rest” in Hebrews—God’s own rest, now offered in the Son (cf. Heb 1:1–3; 3:6, 14), not inserting a new phrase into the Greek.

Hebrews 4:4 absolutely identifies the seventh day—no dispute.
But the writer uses that seventh day as the prototype of God’s own κατάπαυσις (rest), not as the object of the command in v.11.

The flow of vv.4–10 is not “the seventh day = the rest we must enter,” but “God’s seventh‑day rest = the pattern of the rest God still offers.”
Verse 8 is the key that breaks your chain: “If Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” That “another day” is explicitly not the seventh day of creation, because that day was already known.

Verse 9 says a σαββατισμός remains, but v.10 defines it: “he that is entered into His rest has ceased from his own works, as God did from His.”
The comparison is mode, not calendar—the believer ceases from works the way God ceased, not on the day God ceased.

Then v.11 commands diligence to enter that rest (εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν), the same rest of vv.3, 5, 10—God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”
Your reading makes v.8 meaningless (because the seventh day was already known and Joshua never changed it), collapses v.10’s “ceasing from works” into “ceasing from labor one day a week,” and forces v.11 to command a calendar when the Greek commands entry into God’s rest.
The text is about God’s rest, patterned on the seventh day, not a renewed seventh‑day command.
This is scripture, to deny it is to deny the work God has done and the rest he speaks of in Christ.

So which day did Jesus ever speak of as another day of rest besides the 7th day sabbath? (verse 8)
Fact is Jesus never did speak of another day of rest to replace the 7th day sabbath.
And nowhere does the bible speak of His people resting EVERY day from their secular labors.
Again (excluding disabled people) the 4th commandment commands work to be done 6 days and rest on the 7th day from that work.
Heb 4:4 points to the 4th commandment as well as the 1st week of creation.
It is how we know we worship the one true God.
He is the one who made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.
The 4th commandment (Exo 20:8-11) explicitly states this.
Read it for yourself. It's only 4 verses.
Not some AI definition of what it means.
What does it actually say?

No man-made pagan god can claim creation of all things.
But take out the only commandment that tells us which God gave this law and any ole god will do for you now.
You have fallen into unbelief that God is our Creator.
Might as well worship a fish or ask Zeus to make a mouse from a handful of sand....

Certainly "Papa" cannot even raise the dead....

 

[OMC]

Not some AI definition of what it means.

I use Grid 3 because of my disability. Its not an AI.

So which day did Jesus ever speak of as another day of rest besides the 7th day sabbath? (verse 8)
Fact is Jesus never did speak of another day of rest to replace the 7th day sabbath.
And nowhere does the bible speak of His people resting EVERY day from their secular labors.
Again (excluding disabled people) the 4th commandment commands work to be done 6 days and rest on the 7th day from that work.
Heb 4:4 points to the 4th commandment as well as the 1st week of creation.
It is how we know we worship the one true God.
He is the one who made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.
The 4th commandment (Exo 20:8-11) explicitly states this.
Read it for yourself. It's only 4 verses.
Not some AI definition of what it means.
What does it actually say?

I’m going to anchor every claim directly to the text itself, not tradition, not theology, not Jesuit anything—just the words on the page.

Hebrews 4:8 does not ask, “Which day did Jesus speak of to replace the seventh day?”—it says Joshua did not give the true rest, therefore God “spoke of another day,” meaning the promised rest was not exhausted by Canaan nor by the weekly sabbath Israel already had; the writer is showing that the seventh day (v.4) was a pattern, not the fulfillment.

Verse 4 quotes Genesis to show how God rested, not to command the reader to keep that day;
then vv.5–7 quote Psalm 95 to show that centuries after the sabbath command, God was still saying “Today… enter My rest,” proving the sabbath was not the final rest.

Verse 9 says a σαββατισμός remains, but v.10 defines it as ceasing from one’s own works as God did from His, which is a mode of rest, not a day of rest;
the comparison is “as God did,” not “when God did.”

Verse 11 commands entering that rest (εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν),
the same rest of vv.1, 3, 5, 10—God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”

Your reading requires v.8 to mean Jesus should have announced a new sabbath day, but the text never says Jesus spoke of any day; it says God spoke of “another day” in Psalm 95, long after the sabbath was already established, proving the sabbath was not the rest being offered.

And yes, Exodus 20:8–11 commands six days of labor and rest on the seventh day, but Hebrews 4 is not re‑issuing that command; it is showing that the creation sabbath and the Mosaic sabbath were shadows of a greater rest God continued to offer “Today,” not a calendar day.
The question is not “What does the sabbath command say?”—we agree on that;
the question is “What does Hebrews 4 say the command in v.11 refers to?” and the Greek says it refers to God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”

 

[Revelation1v8]

So which day did Jesus ever speak of as another day of rest besides the 7th day sabbath? (verse 8)
Fact is Jesus never did speak of another day of rest to replace the 7th day sabbath.
And nowhere does the bible speak of His people resting EVERY day from their secular labors.
Again (excluding disabled people) the 4th commandment commands work to be done 6 days and rest on the 7th day from that work.
Heb 4:4 points to the 4th commandment as well as the 1st week of creation.
It is how we know we worship the one true God.
He is the one who made the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th day.
The 4th commandment (Exo 20:8-11) explicitly states this.
Read it for yourself. It's only 4 verses.
Not some AI definition of what it means.
What does it actually say?

No man-made pagan god can claim creation of all things.
But take out the only commandment that tells us which God gave this law and any ole god will do for you now.
You have fallen into unbelief that God is our Creator.
Might as well worship a fish or ask Zeus to make a mouse from a handful of sand....

Certainly "Papa" cannot even raise the dead....

God/Jesus gave us a calendar for our benefit, not for His because He lives outside of time. So, if you think God/Jesus cares which day you use to rest or worship, you're mistaken. Even Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath day of rest while He was doing God's work on it.

Here's an A.I. communicated expansion of that thought:

When accused of breaking the Sabbath, Jesus defended His actions by asserting His authority as the "Lord of the Sabbath" and prioritizing mercy over ritual observance.

In response to disciples picking grain, Jesus cited David’s actions and the priests' temple duties to argue that human need supersedes strict legalism, stating, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" and that "the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:1-8).

 

[Davidstarr]

I use Grid 3 because of my disability. Its not an AI.

I’m going to anchor every claim directly to the text itself, not tradition, not theology, not Jesuit anything—just the words on the page.

Hebrews 4:8 does not ask, “Which day did Jesus speak of to replace the seventh day?”—it says Joshua did not give the true rest, therefore God “spoke of another day,” meaning the promised rest was not exhausted by Canaan nor by the weekly sabbath Israel already had; the writer is showing that the seventh day (v.4) was a pattern, not the fulfillment.

Verse 4 quotes Genesis to show how God rested, not to command the reader to keep that day;
then vv.5–7 quote Psalm 95 to show that centuries after the sabbath command, God was still saying “Today… enter My rest,” proving the sabbath was not the final rest.

Verse 9 says a σαββατισμός remains, but v.10 defines it as ceasing from one’s own works as God did from His, which is a mode of rest, not a day of rest;
the comparison is “as God did,” not “when God did.”

Verse 11 commands entering that rest (εἰς ἐκείνην τὴν κατάπαυσιν),
the same rest of vv.1, 3, 5, 10—God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”

Your reading requires v.8 to mean Jesus should have announced a new sabbath day, but the text never says Jesus spoke of any day; it says God spoke of “another day” in Psalm 95, long after the sabbath was already established, proving the sabbath was not the rest being offered.

And yes, Exodus 20:8–11 commands six days of labor and rest on the seventh day, but Hebrews 4 is not re‑issuing that command; it is showing that the creation sabbath and the Mosaic sabbath were shadows of a greater rest God continued to offer “Today,” not a calendar day.
The question is not “What does the sabbath command say?”—we agree on that;
the question is “What does Hebrews 4 say the command in v.11 refers to?” and the Greek says it refers to God’s rest, not “the seventh day.”

But God's day of rest IS IN FACT the seventh day sabbath. Heb 4:4 shows this, Exo 20:8-11 shows this, Gen 2:1-3 shows this.

"If Jesus had given them rest would He not afterward have spoken of another day" Heb 4:8. This is a question even though the KJV ends it in a period rather than a question mark. The original Greek had no punctuation.
So which "other" day did Jesus ever speak of for a day rest? He never did. When did He say, "Every day is a day of rest now"? He never did that either.

And BTW the word "rest" in verse 9 is "sabbatismos" and specifically refers to the 7th day sabbath.

Claiming Heb 4:1-11 refers to "Christ's rest" (which is not even in the text) and not the 7th day sabbath clearly goes against what the context actually says.

Maybe if verses 4-10 were not in the context you could redefine it to mean resting in Jesus every day but the fact is those verses ARE IN THE CONTEXT.
You are clearly rejecting scripture in favor of your denominational teachings. Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Davidstarr]

God/Jesus gave us a calendar for our benefit, not for His because He lives outside of time. So, if you think God/Jesus cares which day you use to rest or worship, you're mistaken. Even Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath day of rest while He was doing God's work on it.

Here's an A.I. communicated expansion of that thought:

When accused of breaking the Sabbath, Jesus defended His actions by asserting His authority as the "Lord of the Sabbath" and prioritizing mercy over ritual observance.

In response to disciples picking grain, Jesus cited David’s actions and the priests' temple duties to argue that human need supersedes strict legalism, stating, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" and that "the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:1-8).

Jesus was FALSELY accused. He never broke the 4th commandment.

You clearly have never read/studied the 4th commandment for yourself. It's only 4 verses - Exo 20:8-11.

The Jewish priest had added so many other burdens on the sabbath they accused Jesus of breaking their traditions.

 

[Davidstarr]

Jesus was FALSELY accused. He never broke the 4th commandment.

You clearly have never read/studied the 4th commandment for yourself. It's only 4 verses - Exo 20:8-11.

The Jewish priest had added so many other burdens on the sabbath they accused Jesus of breaking their traditions.

And please can we stick to only what scripture tells us and not some AI redefinition of what the bible says/means?

 

[OMC]

But God's day of rest IS IN FACT the seventh day sabbath. Heb 4:4 shows this, Exo 20:8-11 shows this, Gen 2:1-3 shows this.

"If Jesus had given them rest would He not afterward have spoken of another day" Heb 4:8. This is a question even though the KJV ends it in a period rather than a question mark. The original Greek had no punctuation.
So which "other" day did Jesus ever speak of for a day rest? He never did. When did He say, "Every day is a day of rest now"? He never did that either.

And BTW the word "rest" in verse 9 is "sabbatismos" and specifically refers to the 7th day sabbath.

Claiming Heb 4:1-11 refers to "Christ's rest" (which is not even in the text) and not the 7th day sabbath clearly goes against what the context actually says.

Maybe if verses 4-10 were not in the context you could redefine it to mean resting in Jesus every day but the fact is those verses ARE IN THE CONTEXT.
You are clearly rejecting scripture in favor of your denominational teachings. Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Hebrews 4 is not teaching a return to the seventh‑day sabbath; it is teaching entrance into God’s rest, which the text itself distinguishes from the weekly sabbath.

 

[Davidstarr]

Hebrews 4 is not teaching a return to the seventh‑day sabbath; it is teaching entrance into God’s rest, which the text itself distinguishes from the weekly sabbath.

Only if you reject what verses 4-10 actually say.

 

[OMC]

Only if you reject what verses 4-10 actually say.

Hebrews 4:4–10 is exactly why your reading cannot stand, because the passage itself distinguishes God’s creation‑rest from the weekly sabbath and then argues that Israel already had the seventh‑day sabbath yet still did not enter God’s rest.

 

[Revelation1v8]

And please can we stick to only what scripture tells us and not some AI redefinition of what the bible says/means?

Sure, here's what the scriptures say:

Colossians 2:16-17

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[Churchgoer]

Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the sabbath day.
Even to save the life of an animal that had fallen into a ditch.
Now asking payment for emergency sabbath services; that's a different story....

Then in that case it is fine for many hospital workers, police, firefighter to worship Jesus on any day of week, if they choose to.

 

[ScooterJackson]

nothing of Adam (the portion from Mary) survived the grave

So the imperfect portion of Jesus is gone now?

When we He ever imperfect before going to the Cross exactly?

 

[Davidstarr]

Then in that case it is fine for many hospital workers, police, firefighter to worship Jesus on any day of week, if they choose to.

As Christians we worship God every day. Even the Jews of the OT worshiped God every day.

There is nothing in the 4th commandment Exo 20:8-11 that talks about worship.
It's all about working 6 days and resting from that labor on the 7th day.

Is Sunday a day of rest for you? Monday, Tuesday, etc.? Then you have already broken the 4th commandment.

Try reading it for yourself. It's only 4 verses.