looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Journey_man]

A scripture that does support sabbath keeping after the resurrection...

Act 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. .....
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

No verses that say they came together EVERY Sunday..

And... Jesus said.

Mat 24:19-21
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Pray that you flight be not on the sabbath day.

"In those days" = Jesus is referring to both the destruction of Jerusalem and the final events, the end of the world.

The Apostles' presence in the synagogue on the Sabbath, (Acts 13:42-44) does not imply that Saturday remained the holy day for the Christian church. Instead, this passage reveals that the Apostles were preaching the gospel to the unconverted Jews and Gentiles. So it was by no means a Lords Day Church Service, that came on the following day.

Acts 17:2 does not teach that Paul was holding a Christian Lord’s Day Service on the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday). You have confused Pauls Outreach Ministry, with his Sunday Church Ministry.

The Bible is clear, the Christian Sabbath is Sunday. There is no way around that fact.

Acts 20:7 "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." This shows an explicit local church gathering for preaching and the Lord's Supper ("breaking bread") on the first day.

1 Corinthians 16:2 "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income. This is the regular collection as tied to the corporate worship assembly of the church.

Revelation 1:10 "On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit..." John uses a distinct new-covenant term (Kyriake hemera, Lord's Day) the first day of the week.

John 20:19 Christ appeared to the assembled disciples on the evening of that first resurrection day, establishing a pattern of meeting with His church on this day.

Just as the old Sabbath commemorated God finishing physical creation (Genesis 2:2-3), the Christian Sabbath commemorates the inauguration of the new creation via Christ's resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week.

In Matthew 24:19-21 Jesus was not teaching that Christians would be keeping a weekly seventh-day Sabbath during a future end-times tribulation; instead, He was warning His Jewish disciples about the practical and logistical difficulties of fleeing the impending destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70

Jesus mentioning the Sabbath (Matthew 24:20) addresses the reality that city gates would be closed, and traveling or fleeing would cause severe friction, hostility, or logistical blockades from strict unbelieving Jewish authorities and societal norms of that era.

 

[TMS]

Absolutely positively not with three exclamations on top!!!

I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, nor will I ever be a Seventh Day Adventist, a organization that taught Jesus would return in 1844 - many of them sold their homes, all their belongings to be ready for Jesus's return, called the Great Disappointment

Charles Russell, the founder of one of the cults that emerged from nineteenth century Adventism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

still teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.

Just like Ellen G White, the founder of the Seventh-day Adventist taught Jesus was Michael

Do you believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel Too?

>>>

The Seventh day Adventists church did not exist before 1844..

They are a church that grew out of the 1844 disappointment.

The church wasn't officially founded until the 1860's

Jesus is God. He is the great I AM.

Yes I do believe Jesus is Michael. But let's not get side tracked, this is another subject.

 

[TMS]

The Sabbath was not made at Creation. It was made during the Exodus from Egypt.

Gen 2:2-3
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He rested on the seventh day, then blessed and sanctified it, thereby instituting the Sabbath for the entire human race.

We were made in God's image.

Jehovah made the Sabbath through three specific acts: resting from His work, blessing the seventh day, and sanctifying or hallowing it.
The week in which the Sabbath was made consisted of seven literal days, exactly like the weeks we experience today.

God blessed and sanctified the 7th day.
It is unlogical to say this means nothing for 2000 years.


It would not of been hard for the Patriarchs to share their Knowledge of the creation Sabbath. They would of passed down their understanding. Adam, was a personal witness to the Creator's rest.

Ezekiel 20:12, Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Do we need sanctification? Yes.

When God spoke the Ten Commandments, He pointed back to the original creation week as the foundation for the fourth commandment.

 

[JohnDB]

Gen 2:2-3
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He rested on the seventh day, then blessed and sanctified it, thereby instituting the Sabbath for the entire human race.

We were made in God's image.

Jehovah made the Sabbath through three specific acts: resting from His work, blessing the seventh day, and sanctifying or hallowing it.
The week in which the Sabbath was made consisted of seven literal days, exactly like the weeks we experience today.

God blessed and sanctified the 7th day.
It is unlogical to say this means nothing for 2000 years.


It would not of been hard for the Patriarchs to share their Knowledge of the creation Sabbath. They would of passed down their understanding. Adam, was a personal witness to the Creator's rest.

Ezekiel 20:12, Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Do we need sanctification? Yes.

When God spoke the Ten Commandments, He pointed back to the original creation week as the foundation for the fourth commandment.

And Roman's 13:10 says there is a new game in town.
Same as we are saved by Grace, not works, through faith lest any man should boast.

Going to church only on Saturday is a boastful work....
Not gonna slice it any other way.

 

[TMS]

The Church met on the First Day of the Week.

Our church meets on Wednesday, and Saturday but that does not change which day God blessed and sanctified.

Adam could eat of which ever tree he wanted, he had freedom to eat of any tree. but it does not change the fact that God had set aside the tree that would result in sin.

Just because tradition teaches that people go to church on Sunday does not change the fact that God set the 7th day aside (sanctified), and made it holy.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mat 15:6 .... Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

 

[TMS]

Jesus is the One saying the old covenant has been taken away and that He started the New Covenant
Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.



God's moral laws are included in the Law of Christ (New Covenant)



That would be speaking of the Law of Christ (New Covenant)



Jesus is the One saying the old covenant has been taken away and that He started the New Covenant
Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

I agree that There is a new covenant.

But when was the new covenant made and what are the grounds or conditions of the new?

The old covenant was not the first.....
God made covenants with Adam, Noah, Abraham...

Exo 19:5-6
5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

Was God in error.. no. GOD DID NOT MAKE ANY MISTACKS. God did not fail in anything with this old covenant.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

"finding fault with them"

The moral laws were not faulty.

The old covenants fault was with the people..

Jer 31:31-33
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[JohnDB]

Our church meets on Wednesday, and Saturday but that does not change which day God blessed and sanctified.

Adam could eat of which ever tree he wanted, he had freedom to eat of any tree. but it does not change the fact that God had set aside the tree that would result in sin.

Just because tradition teaches that people go to church on Sunday does not change the fact that God set the 7th day aside (sanctified), and made it holy.

Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mat 15:6 .... Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Still a boastful work.

 

[Journey_man]

There is no biblical evidence that the lord's day is the 1st day of the week.
Nothing to indicate Jesus' resurection has supplanted (or changed) the 4th commandment.

There is plenty of Biblical evidence showing that the Lords Day is the 1st day of the week.

 

[Churchgoer]

NT teach us do not forsake gathering. Gathering is important.

 

[Davidstarr]

There is plenty of Biblical evidence showing that the Lords Day is the 1st day of the week.

Bland statements without presenting the evidence is useless. Why do you even reply?

Show the evidence.

 

[Davidstarr]

The Apostles' presence in the synagogue on the Sabbath, (Acts 13:42-44) does not imply that Saturday remained the holy day for the Christian church. Instead, this passage reveals that the Apostles were preaching the gospel to the unconverted Jews and Gentiles. So it was by no means a Lords Day Church Service, that came on the following day.

Acts 17:2 does not teach that Paul was holding a Christian Lord’s Day Service on the Jewish Sabbath (Saturday). You have confused Pauls Outreach Ministry, with his Sunday Church Ministry.

The Bible is clear, the Christian Sabbath is Sunday. There is no way around that fact.

Acts 20:7 "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." This shows an explicit local church gathering for preaching and the Lord's Supper ("breaking bread") on the first day.

1 Corinthians 16:2 "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income. This is the regular collection as tied to the corporate worship assembly of the church.

Revelation 1:10 "On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit..." John uses a distinct new-covenant term (Kyriake hemera, Lord's Day) the first day of the week.

John 20:19 Christ appeared to the assembled disciples on the evening of that first resurrection day, establishing a pattern of meeting with His church on this day.

Just as the old Sabbath commemorated God finishing physical creation (Genesis 2:2-3), the Christian Sabbath commemorates the inauguration of the new creation via Christ's resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week.

In Matthew 24:19-21 Jesus was not teaching that Christians would be keeping a weekly seventh-day Sabbath during a future end-times tribulation; instead, He was warning His Jewish disciples about the practical and logistical difficulties of fleeing the impending destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70

Jesus mentioning the Sabbath (Matthew 24:20) addresses the reality that city gates would be closed, and traveling or fleeing would cause severe friction, hostility, or logistical blockades from strict unbelieving Jewish authorities and societal norms of that era.

Rev 1:10 does not say the Lord's Day is one the 1st day of the week. Rev 22:18 warns about adding unfounded words into that book.

I Cor 16:2 does not even say there was a meeting of any sort. No evidence of a Sunday worship service there.
All you have to do is read the text for yourself to see this. You have been lied to about what the text says, knowing (or at least hoping) you would not double check the facts for yourself.

Acts 20:7 is no evidence that this first day of the week gathering is any different that any other day (Acts 2:46) they they gathered together to eat a communal meal (to break bread) and praise God.

Matt 24 does not mention the destruction of Jerusalem. The prophecy is about end times events in answer to the disciples question (Matt 24:3).
So the statement in verse 20 would, of course, be meaning God's people would be keeping the 7th day sabbath even in the last days.

None of the texts state the Lord's Day is on the first day of the week or that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day.
Don't you think it is God, Himself, should decide which day should be His day? Isa 58:13 says the Sabbath is His holy day.
Where else in the bible (other than the sabbath) does God ever claim a day as "His holy day"?

There are over 80 different weekly sabbath days kept by the early Christians (both Jews and Gentiles) in the book of Acts alone.
Not one WEEKLY Sunday.

 

[Davidstarr]

And Roman's 13:10 says there is a new game in town.
Same as we are saved by Grace, not works, through faith lest any man should boast.

Going to church only on Saturday is a boastful work....
Not gonna slice it any other way.

Funny. The people of Sodom talked that way about Lot. Though on a different subject.
Job's friends who falsely accused him claimed he was boastful.
Psa 44:8 "In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah."
I know you meant that as an accusation. I take it as a compliment. TYVM.
Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, not of works. It is a free gift from God. Only the blood of Jesus on the cross saves us. There is nothing we can do to "earn" salvation.
That's not the point of living lives in obedience to God's will, doing enough good deeds to be accepted.
We don't do the good deeds to GET saved. We do the good deeds because we are ALREADY saved. Led by God's Spirit to be obedient.
Certainly living lives AGAINST God's will can condemn us. But our deeds cannot save us.
And certainly those against God are not under the law, cannot even keep it anyway:
Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

 

[Davidstarr]

Gen 2:2-3
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He rested on the seventh day, then blessed and sanctified it, thereby instituting the Sabbath for the entire human race.

We were made in God's image.

Jehovah made the Sabbath through three specific acts: resting from His work, blessing the seventh day, and sanctifying or hallowing it.
The week in which the Sabbath was made consisted of seven literal days, exactly like the weeks we experience today.

God blessed and sanctified the 7th day.
It is unlogical to say this means nothing for 2000 years.


It would not of been hard for the Patriarchs to share their Knowledge of the creation Sabbath. They would of passed down their understanding. Adam, was a personal witness to the Creator's rest.

Ezekiel 20:12, Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Do we need sanctification? Yes.

When God spoke the Ten Commandments, He pointed back to the original creation week as the foundation for the fourth commandment.

Paul also, in Heb 4:1-11, points to both the 4th commandment and the 7th day sabbath of creation.
Verse 11 is a direct command for God's people to keep the sabbath.
People should not take verses 4-10 out of the context to claim it is talking about "resting in Jesus every day".

 

[Yissachar]

The Seventh day Adventists church did not exist before 1844..

They are a church that grew out of the 1844 disappointment.

The church wasn't officially founded until the 1860's

Jesus is God. He is the great I AM.

Yes I do believe Jesus is Michael. But let's not get side tracked, this is another subject.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Michael dared Not bring an accusation against the devil

Which means you believe that Almighty God was afraid to rebuke the devil.

What Lord was the Great I AM calling upon in order to rebuke satan?

SDA that teach Michael is Jesus are definitely a cult

 

[ScooterJackson]

The old covenants fault was with the people..

The fault of the old covenant was that it could not bring life.
The New Covenant can and does bring life because of it's High Priest, Jesus Christ.

 

[Roger316]

Our church meets on Wednesday, and Saturday but that does not change which day God blessed and sanctified.

But it does prove that the early church didn't keep the sabbath day. That's the point. Just as the early church recognized that they weren't required to keep the Sabbath Day, we don't keep the Sabbath Day today.

One of the major themes of Christ's teaching is that one day, and it was soon, God would not require any form of religious practice at all. He told the woman at the well that God would require people who worship him in spirit and truth.

Paul taught the same thing. God doesn't want his people to practice religion. He wants his people to meet together and remind each other what is true through Psalms, Hymns, and Sacred songs and scripture reading and teaching.

You have accepted the idea that the fourth commandment is a moral imperative, rather than a ceremonial Law, which it is. You are convinced that resting every seventh day is on the same moral level as not committing adultery or murder, which it isn't.

Adam could eat of which ever tree he wanted, he had freedom to eat of any tree. but it does not change the fact that God had set aside the tree that would result in sin.

I agree with that, but that's the point, isn't it? God gave Adam an explicit command to not eat from the Tree. God gave Israel and explicit command to rest every seventh day. He did not give the Gentiles that same command? Why? Because that command is part of the Mt. Sinai Covenant.

Just because tradition teaches that people go to church on Sunday does not change the fact that God set the 7th day aside (sanctified), and made it holy.

I agree. I would not argue that the Sabbath Day is Sunday. No, The Sabbath Day is Saturday -- The last day of the week. When Christians meet together on Sunday, they aren't practicing a religion (they shouldn't see it that way) They are agreeing to meet on that day to remind each other of the truth. If they should meet on a Wednesday, that would be okay two. The Day isn't significant. The meeting and what happens there is.

 

[Davidstarr]

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Michael dared Not bring an accusation against the devil

Which means you believe that Almighty God was afraid to rebuke the devil.

What Lord was the Great I AM calling upon in order to rebuke satan?

SDA that teach Michael is Jesus are definitely a cult

Sorry, no evidence that God was afraid to enter into dispute with the devil.

And many times (both OT and NT) has God and Jesus referred to Himself in the 3rd person.

Case closed.

 

[Roger316]

Gen 2:2-3
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He rested on the seventh day, then blessed and sanctified it, thereby instituting the Sabbath for the entire human race.

That is not entirely true. The Fourth Commandment is to REMEMBER the Sabbath Day. Resting on the Seventh day of the Week serves as an occasion to remember the Seventh day of creation. Remembering the Seventh Day of Creation didn't start until Exodus.

But Why? Why remember the Seventh Day of Creation? Big deal. God Rested on the Seventh Day, so what?!

Ask yourself this, did Genesis 1:2-3 take place yet? No. The Sixth Day hasn't ended yet. The Sixth day is the day of Man, the day when man rules over the earth.

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”​

See that man rules over the earth; man has subdued the earth. We are still in Day 6, waiting for Day 7 to arrive. Mankind has not stopped ruling over the earth; We have not stopped subduing it.

The Fourth Commandment was given to Israel so they would "remember" the Seventh Day, not looking backward but forward. They were not remembering the days of creation; they were remembering the final day of rest.

Paul teaches the Hebrews to think of it that way.

Hebrews 4:7-9
He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Paul understood that the Fourth Commandment was looking forward to the Day when Israel would have her rest. Moses didn't give her rest. Neither did Joshua. Jesus will give her rest. Luke chapter one. She will be delivered from her enemies during the Millennial period when God's kingdom shall come on earth as it is in heaven.

Are Gentiles obligated to remember the Sabbath Rest of Israel. I don't think so. What we anticipate is eternal life in the Age of ages serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Davidstarr]

That is not entirely true. The Fourth Commandment is to REMEMBER the Sabbath Day. Resting on the Seventh day of the Week serves as an occasion to remember the Seventh day of creation. Remembering the Seventh Day of Creation didn't start until Exodus.

But Why? Why remember the Seventh Day of Creation? Big deal. God Rested on the Seventh Day, so what?!

Ask yourself this, did Genesis 1:2-3 take place yet? No. The Sixth Day hasn't ended yet. The Sixth day is the day of Man, the day when man rules over the earth.

Genesis 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”​

See that man rules over the earth; man has subdued the earth. We are still in Day 6, waiting for Day 7 to arrive. Mankind has not stopped ruling over the earth; We have not stopped subduing it.

The Fourth Commandment was given to Israel so they would "remember" the Seventh Day, not looking backward but forward. They were not remembering the days of creation; they were remembering the final day of rest.

Paul teaches the Hebrews to think of it that way.

Hebrews 4:7-9
He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Paul understood that the Fourth Commandment was looking forward to the Day when Israel would have her rest. Moses didn't give her rest. Neither did Joshua. Jesus will give her rest. Luke chapter one. She will be delivered from her enemies during the Millennial period when God's kingdom shall come on earth as it is in heaven.

Are Gentiles obligated to remember the Sabbath Rest of Israel. I don't think so. What we anticipate is eternal life in the Age of ages serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

You can't even read what the forth commandment actually says can you. I suggest you do (Exo 20:8-11).
Verse 11 actually points BACK to creation week and God resting on the 7th day from His labors (Gen 2:1-3).

Do you even own a bible of your own? I will send you one (or at least find a way for you to get one) for free.

 

[Yissachar]

Sorry, no evidence that God was afraid to enter into dispute with the devil.

And many times (both OT and NT) has God and Jesus referred to Himself in the 3rd person.

Case closed.

The Scriptures Thoroughly Refute the Possibility that Jesus is Michael

The exact phrase occurs 3 times

Durst G5111 Not G3766

Luke 20:40

And after that they durst G5111 not ask Him any question at all.

Acts 7:32

Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst G511 not G3756 behold.

Jude 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst G5111 not G3766 bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The KJV translates Strong's G5111 in the following manner: durst (7x), dare (4x), be bold (4x), boldly (1x).

The KJV translates Strong's G3756 in the following manner: not (1,210x), no (147x), cannot (with G1410) (57x)

Moses Trembled and was afraid to look upon Elohim, he dared not

Michael dared not bring a accusation

Not convinced, then read the verse in its context, brutish men speaking evil of things they don't understand, Yet Michael who did understand dared not say anything against satan, and said the Lord rebuke you

In Summary
you want people to believe, that the Pre-Incarnate JESUS who you believe was is and will always be Michael the Archangel, who dared not, bring a accusation against satan is God Almighty.

LOL

I'll Pass!!!