Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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1) Justification happens.
2) then everyone who is now saved he is THEN predestined to FUTURE redemption of the body .
No one was predestined in the mind of God before they were born .
Where does the Bible teach that predestination follows justification?
What is he writing about ?
He is writing about God’s active and all surpassing love for His Elect. And Paul wasn’t boasting over the Gentiles saying, we have all of this and you don’t. Because Jew and Gentile believers are all ONE IN CHRIST.
By the way, that is what the OIC into moniker stands for. One in Christ.
But in your paradigm only some of the New Testament is for any individual, based on whether he or she is Jewish or not.
The epistles of Peter don’t apply to me because he wrote primarily to Jews and I am a gentile.
Jews are Christ’s sheep and Gentiles aren’t, according to you
When Paul called Gentile believers a flock, I guess they were a flock of seagulls or something?
This awful premise has caused you to have bad theology.
Not a clue have you ?He is writing about God’s active and all surpassing love for His Elect. And Paul wasn’t boasting over the Gentiles saying, we have all of this and you don’t. Because Jew and Gentile believers are all ONE IN CHRIST.
By the way, that is what the OIC into moniker stands for. One in Christ.
But in your paradigm only some of the New Testament is for any individual, based on whether he or she is Jewish or not.
The epistles of Peter don’t apply to me because he wrote primarily to Jews and I am a gentile.
Jews are Christ’s sheep and Gentiles aren’t, according to you
When Paul called Gentile believers a flock, I guess they were a flock of seagulls or something?
This awful premise has caused you to have bad theology.
Not a clue have you ?He is writing about God’s active and all surpassing love for His Elect. And Paul wasn’t boasting over the Gentiles saying, we have all of this and you don’t. Because Jew and Gentile believers are all ONE IN CHRIST.
By the way, that is what the OIC into moniker stands for. One in Christ.
Rom 8 ( its not chronological)Where does the Bible teach that predestination follows justification?
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
We will not be conformed until rom 8 . 23
Yes the church is One body . Jew and Gentile . With God's programme for Israel still on track . His elect . I know its romantic to imagine God picked you before you were born but the bible does not speak of this at all. This is ' me ' centred western theology.He is writing about God’s active and all surpassing love for His Elect. And Paul wasn’t boasting over the Gentiles saying, we have all of this and you don’t. Because Jew and Gentile believers are all ONE IN CHRIST.
By the way, that is what the OIC into moniker stands for. One in Christ.
Not a clue have you ?
Rom 8 ( its not chronological)
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
We will not be conformed until rom 8 . 23
We are Predestinated before being conformed. So you have demonstrated nothing.
So again I ask, where does the Bible say predestined after justification?
Yes the church is One body . Jew and Gentile . With God's programme for Israel still on track . His elect . I know its romantic to imagine God picked you before you were born but the bible does not speak of this at all. This is ' me ' centred western theology.
So are you saying Romans 8 is written to and only applies to Jews?
Because Paul refers to them as elect.
Yes the church is One body . Jew and Gentile . With God's programme for Israel still on track . His elect . I know its romantic to imagine God picked you before you were born but the bible does not speak of this at all. This is ' me ' centred western theology.
Read Romans 8:33-34
Who is Christ interceding for in Romans 8:34?
So are you saying Romans 8 is written to and only applies to Jews?
Because Paul refers to them as elect.
And I guess that a charge may be laid against Gentile Christians, because Paul only mentions the elect when he says who shall lay a charge against Gods elect.
That doesn’t apply to us, huh?
And the phrase,if God is for us who can be against us?
Doesn’t apply to us either?
Is that your position?
All these things are to the elect
It just so happens that elect people are mostly saved . In the context of :So are you saying Romans 8 is written to and only applies to Jews?
Because Paul refers to them as elect.
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)
Nobody was “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. Nobody was “in Christ” before they were placed in Christ during their lifetime. (Eph. 1:4; 2:12; Rom. 12:5; 6:3: 16:7; 1 Cor. 12:13, 27)
What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)
It just so happens that elect people are mostly saved . In the context of :
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)
“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)
Nobody was “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. Nobody was “in Christ” before they were placed in Christ during their lifetime. (Eph. 1:4; 2:12; Rom. 12:5; 6:3: 16:7; 1 Cor. 12:13, 27)
What Calvinists call “the golden chain of redemption” contains no direct reference to the atonement. (Rom. 8:29-30)
Name one place where it says predestination happens after conversion. Just one.
I have asked for this numerous times, and you have failed to show in scripture that predestination happens after conversion. Cite a place in the Bible where that is taught.
Put up or stop making the claim.
The same place you think it happened in the ' mind of God ' .Name one place where it says predestination happens after conversion. Just one.
I have asked for this numerous times, and you have failed to show in scripture that predestination happens after conversion. Cite a place in the Bible where that is taught.
Put up or stop making the claim.
Name one place where it says predestination happens after conversion. Just one.
I have asked for this numerous times, and you have failed to show in scripture that predestination happens after conversion. Cite a place in the Bible where that is taught.
Put up or stop making the claim.
And while you’re at it, one verse that God does not have foreknowledge of us till after conversion. And don’t mess up and confuse ginosko and prognosis again.
The same place you think it happened in the ' mind of God ' .
Weak answer.
Specific book chapter and verse that says predestination is after conversion, please
I’m not interested in people’s ideas of an impersonal God without a mind, nor am I interested in open theism.
Btw, since you believe adoption is the redemption of our body,-‘and since that hasn’t happened yet, isn’t that “ in the mind of God” too?
Everything that exists was at one time in the mind of God, funny guy
Your not thinking straight . If you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that the scriptures say is the earnest ( Gurantee ) , being put into Christ THIS is the basis for being predestined to the Adoption . No IN THE MIND OF GOD theology needed. My predestination is based in REAL TIME not fictional in the mind of God nonsense . God KNOWING me in REAL TIME ,AS A SON is based in REAL TIME . EVERYTHING !!! I have because of Jesus in REAL TIME is because AFTER I believed ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN CHRIST JESUS were given to me . How and why ? Because of some gnostic ' divine ' choosing before i was born, before my parents even knew me ? NO because of something that happened IN TIME . Given to everyone IN HIM , IN REAL TIME !!Weak answer.
Specific book chapter and verse that says predestination is after conversion, please
I’m not interested in people’s ideas of an impersonal God without a mind, nor am I interested in open theism.
Btw, since you believe adoption is the redemption of our body,-‘and since that hasn’t happened yet, isn’t that “ in the mind of God” too?
Everything that exists was at one time in the mind of God, funny guy
You place too much trust in systematic theology and commentaries .
Your just parroting commentaries , and not dealing with context .And while you’re at it, one verse that God does not have foreknowledge of us till after conversion. And don’t mess up and confuse ginosko and prognosis again.
Romans 8 is about ' suffering ' , and dealing with it .So are you saying Romans 8 is written to and only applies to Jews?
Because Paul refers to them as elect.
Its not about what i believe. Its about what the bible says the Adoption IS . Rom 8 .23 . If we are predestined to the Adoption and to be conformed and to an inheritance , and all those things are yet future . It really is simple to figure out when we are predestined. Now it could be that you only move in reformed circles and have not heard much beyond the reformed systematic. But I'm not alone with this view as others have contended with you on this issue also .Weak answer.
Specific book chapter and verse that says predestination is after conversion, please
I’m not interested in people’s ideas of an impersonal God without a mind, nor am I interested in open theism.
Btw, since you believe adoption is the redemption of our body,-‘and since that hasn’t happened yet, isn’t that “ in the mind of God” too?
Everything that exists was at one time in the mind of God, funny guy
I used to believe what you believe more or less so i get it. I know the a,b,c s of how the commentaries sell it . But its not there when you see that its coming from faulty presuppositions.Weak answer.
Specific book chapter and verse that says predestination is after conversion, please
I’m not interested in people’s ideas of an impersonal God without a mind, nor am I interested in open theism.
Btw, since you believe adoption is the redemption of our body,-‘and since that hasn’t happened yet, isn’t that “ in the mind of God” too?
Everything that exists was at one time in the mind of God, funny guy