Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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OIC1965 said:
SO then Romans 8:28-30 has nothing to do with Gentile believers? IS that what you're saying?

Because if that is the meaning of foreknowledge, then Romans 8:29-30 only applies to Jewish converts.

See how messy you are?
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Hey my whole biblical understanding is not based on " in the mind of God ' Theology , yours is . So I'm not hung up on this occurance of the word ' elect ' . I just think ' chosen for what ' ect . Israel are clearly God's CHOSEN, ELECT people in all the context of the old testament accounts of Israel . God didn't choose the gentiles . We are grafted in due to their fall . Until the fullness of the gentiles . Until the harpazo.
 
throughfaith said:
All believers are chosen to do and be yes i agree 👍No believer is chosen to be un holy and blame worthy . Paul was chosen to be an apostle to the gentiles . Israel was Chosen as a Nation to do all things stated in the old testament. What has this got to do with your theology?
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When did God chose and predestine us according to ephesians 1:4-5

Read it.

According as He has chosen us in Him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love; HAVING PREDESTINATED US (aorist participle)...

Both electioh and predestination happened before the foundation of the world. Paul did not say He chose us and then predestined us. he said he chose us HAVING predestinated us.
 
OIC1965 said:
Can you be holy and without blame without salvation?

...and I'm still waiting for where it says Foreknowledge and predestination come after conversion.
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Can you be holy and without blame without the Holy Spirit and without Christ ?
 
throughfaith said:
Hey my whole biblical understanding is not based on " in the mind of God ' Theology , yours is . So I'm not hung up on this occurance of the word ' elect ' . I just think ' chosen for what ' ect . Israel are clearly God's CHOSEN, ELECT people in all the context of the old testament accounts of Israel . God didn't choose the gentiles . We are grafted in due to their fall . Until the fullness of the gentiles . Until the harpazo.
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So are you saying that you are not elect? Does that mean that Christ is not interceding for you and that Romans 8:29-the rest of the chapter, does not apply to you.
 
throughfaith said:
Can you be holy and without blame without the Holy Spirit and without Christ ?
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No, but you can be foreknown and predestined before you receive the Holy Spirit and Christ. Convince me otherwise.

SO where is the verse that says predestined after conversion?
 
throughfaith said:
Hey my whole biblical understanding is not based on " in the mind of God ' Theology , yours is . So I'm not hung up on this occurance of the word ' elect ' . I just think ' chosen for what ' ect . Israel are clearly God's CHOSEN, ELECT people in all the context of the old testament accounts of Israel . God didn't choose the gentiles . We are grafted in due to their fall . Until the fullness of the gentiles . Until the harpazo.
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I don't care if you don't believe that God has a mind or if you don't believe He has foreknowledge, or whatever your disconnect is. Answer the questions. I answer your questions, will you please answer mine?
 
throughfaith said:
Next time you read Rom 8 .29 ask your self when were they foreknown . Does it say " before the foundation " ? Does it say " in my mother's womb" ?

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Israel are God's ' chosen ' in the sense of being His first born son . Thats how God ' knows ' them and how they are foreknown. It has nothing to do with gnosctism or determinism or ' in the mind of God 'theories and philosophy.
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SO then Romans 8:28-30 has nothing to do with Gentile believers? IS that what you're saying?

You are applying foreknowledge to God's knowledge of Israel in the past. So then calling, justification, and glorification are granted based on one's nationality now?

Those who God foreknew, He predestined. Those He predestined, He called. Those He called, He justified. Those He justified, He glorified.

THIS is referring to NATIONAL ISRAEL, and not believing Israel and believing Gentiles, IE the church.
 
OIC1965 said:
You show that you understand nothing of what either teaches. Both teach predestination based on foreknowledge, ( they define the term differently, though) as do all who let the Bible say what it says

The only argument you have is to say the Petrine epistles are written and apply to Jewish Christians only. A weak and errant argument.
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Once you lay aside all this junk about " in the mind of God " and just read in context without the philosophy you will see properly what the scriptures are saying. Paul is pointing to where we are going and not harping on about the past.
 
throughfaith said:
Once you lay aside all this junk about " in the mind of God " and just read in context without the philosophy you will see properly what the scriptures are saying. Paul is pointing to where we are going and not harping on about the past.
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Are you calling the proposition that "God has a mind junk" or the proposition that "He has perfect foreknowledge" junk? Which propositon are you trying to debunk?
 
OIC1965 said:
The same Greek word eklektos is applied to the church at Collossi. Colossians 3:12...and you still are excluding some ( many) Christians from the blessings of Romans 8:28- to the end of the chapter. ( see Romans 8:33-34).
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All believers are included in the blessings. Which are in Christ Jesus.
 
OIC1965 said:
Are you calling the proposition that "God has a mind junk" or the proposition that "He has perfect foreknowledge" junk? Which propositon are you trying to debunk?

Which one is Gnostic?

Though I doubt you really understand what Gnosticism is and I am certain you can't define Manichaeism.
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Are you saying that the Apostles were champion figure skaters ?
let's keep misrepresenting everything we say in a really weird way .
 
throughfaith said:
Are you saying that the Apostles were champion figure skaters ?
let's keep misrepresenting everything we say in a really weird way .
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You said 'in the mind of God" is philosophy. Was Christ's crucifiction in the mind of God before it happened?
 
throughfaith said:
Once you lay aside all this junk about " in the mind of God " and just read in context without the philosophy you will see properly what the scriptures are saying. Paul is pointing to where we are going and not harping on about the past.
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Where does KNOWLEDGE and FOREKNOWLEDGE exist? In the mind, right? How simple is that.

What's the beef with knowledge and foreknowledge existing in the mind of God, bub?

Where else would it be?

I guess saying that God's foreknowledge and His knowledge exists and existed in His mind is Gnostic to you. So correct me. Where does God's knowledge exist and where did His Foreknowledge exist?
 
throughfaith said:
question
When is the question . Notice your adding the idea its before anyone existed ..Does it say that ?
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I added nothing. Ephesians 1:5 says before the foundation of the world.

So who is foreknown in Romans 8:29?

And did that Foreknowledge exist in the mind of God or was it somewhere else?
 
throughfaith said:
The Son of God has always existed . Your not the Son of God .
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Did the crucifiction always exist?

Was it always in the mind of God?

You have a problem, because you claim that something existing in the mind of God before it exists is Gnosticism. That is erroneous of you to think that.

Everything that exists was in the mind of God before it existed. If it didn't, He would not be Omniscient, and we would have to teach open theism.
 
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OIC1965 said:
Did the crucifiction always exist?

Was it always in the mind of God?

You have a problem, because you claim that something existing in the mind of God before it exists is Gnosticism. That is erroneous of you to think that.
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Where getting into speculation and not the scriptures now
 
OIC1965 said:
Did the crucifiction always exist?

Was it always in the mind of God?

You have a problem, because you claim that something existing in the mind of God before it exists is Gnosticism. That is erroneous of you to think that.

Everything that exists existed in the mind of God before it existed. If it didn't, He would not be Omniscient, and we would have to teach open theism.
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No one is denying God knows all things . What's important is what the bible says .
 
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