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P1LGR1M
Guest
Under the new covenant one cannot be in a saved state unless they are born again. If you want to get pedantic as to whether the term born again can be applied before Pentecost, that's ok
And if you would like to contribute to the discussion at hand that would be okay as well.
If you would like to discuss Regeneration please go to the/a appropriate thread.
I would be more than happy to discuss the misconceptions you apparently hold to in regards to new birth there.
God bless.
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Under the new covenant one cannot be in a saved state unless they are born again. If you want to get pedantic as to whether the term born again can be applied before Pentecost, that's ok
So there is no such thing as Election, is that it? lol
The names of the Elect were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from before the world was formed?
Okay, if you say so.
God bless.
K
KennethC
Guest
Pilgrim you use a lot of words and then tell others to go join other threads just because they don't agree with you, and show you biblical truths that deny what you are saying.
First you need to go read 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 as it will enlighten you to see those who received salvation of the OT were born again !!!
None of the disciples when they walked with Christ were saved at that time as they were not born again yet, and even our Lord Jesus told them only if they endure to the end will they be saved (Matthew 10:22). And this scripture was said to the original Apostles that walked with Christ, it was not for the tribulation period.
Hebrews 10:26-29 is not talking about apostasy, for it is talking about those who continue after receiving the truth of salvation go forward still living deliberate sinful lifestyles.
1 Timothy 4 gives us a teaching of apostasy as well does Acts 20:28-31 that I mentioned before, and another place we can see apostasy taking place is in the epistle to the Galatians. In that epistles Apostle Paul clearly says they once walked by the true gospel of Christ but now have been lead astray to follow another false gospel. Thus telling them Christ sacrifice to forgive them of their sins and redeem them to God has no effect for them and they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me..........Apostle Paul (Philippians 4:13)
First you need to go read 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 as it will enlighten you to see those who received salvation of the OT were born again !!!
None of the disciples when they walked with Christ were saved at that time as they were not born again yet, and even our Lord Jesus told them only if they endure to the end will they be saved (Matthew 10:22). And this scripture was said to the original Apostles that walked with Christ, it was not for the tribulation period.
Hebrews 10:26-29 is not talking about apostasy, for it is talking about those who continue after receiving the truth of salvation go forward still living deliberate sinful lifestyles.
1 Timothy 4 gives us a teaching of apostasy as well does Acts 20:28-31 that I mentioned before, and another place we can see apostasy taking place is in the epistle to the Galatians. In that epistles Apostle Paul clearly says they once walked by the true gospel of Christ but now have been lead astray to follow another false gospel. Thus telling them Christ sacrifice to forgive them of their sins and redeem them to God has no effect for them and they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me..........Apostle Paul (Philippians 4:13)
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P1LGR1M
Guest
That is correct.
Though your statements lie in direct contradiction one with the other:
Under the new covenant one cannot be in a saved state unless they are born again. If you want to get pedantic as to whether the term born again can be applied before Pentecost, that's ok
God bless.
K
KennethC
Guest
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Perhaps you should pray for strength to actually address the responses given.
Your response here shows that you have not spent much time in Hebrews, and I have no desire to cater to the slothful manner in which you approach the issue.
The difference between you and I is that while I suggest you go to the appropriate thread, I still addressed your statements.
Not here to chat, my friend, so if you feel you can show regeneration according to New Covenant Standard, feel free to critique this issue in the other thread.
What Christ will not strengthen you to do is impose concepts and teachings into an Age or Era where that concept and teaching was veiled by Mystery.
When you understand that, you will then understand such matters as apostasy and how they relate to those who are born again believers, and those that are false professors playing Churchianity.
God bless.
This describes being born again:
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit John 3:8
That cannot possibly describe a person under the old covenant. Everyone born into a Jewish family was born into it
This is being born again:
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’[SUP][b][/SUP]
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more
Heb 10:16&17
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P1LGR1M
Guest
They do, you simply overlook the fact that your statements do not make a definitive statement.
Originally Posted by james57
No one was born again under the old covenant anyways
Originally Posted by james57
Under the new covenant one cannot be in a saved state unless they are born again. If you want to get pedantic as to whether the term born again can be applied before Pentecost, that's ok
In the first you state "No-one was born again under Old Covenant anyways," then say one cannot be in a "saved" state unless they are born again.
What you are saying is that no-one was saved under the Old Covenant.
I said...
Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
The names of the Elect were not written in the Lamb's Book of Life from before the world was formed?
Okay, if you say so.
God bless.
...which addresses your statement.
Men were saved under the prior provisions of the Covenants that precede the New Covenant, but they were not born again.
Now the issue is whether there were disciples of Christ who were not saved. That is not pedantic, it is simply truth which has already been supported on my end with John 6:66 and Judas, which makes the point which cannot be refuted. lol
God bless.
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Not even close, lol.
Here it is:
1 Corinthians 10
King James Version (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Were you baptized into Moses?
Just answer me that, lol.
And have to get going, but will check in briefly after I get ready.
Don't disappoint me on this...answer the question.
God bless.
K
KennethC
Guest
K
KennethC
Guest
Why do you focus on physical understanding of the man Moses instead of looking at the spiritual understanding of the passage ???
The spiritual point is that in the cloud is symbolic of (in the Spirit), and the sea is symbolic of (being immersed in water).
This scripture as well as others squashes the fact that those of the OT that received salvation were born again by baptism as well. Both covenants were dedicated through blood and water both, not one and not the other.
Read John 3 as that is talking about being born again and Jesus says water and Spirit !!!
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P1LGR1M
Guest
Were you baptized into Moses?
You started the rabbit trail, and I am going to finish it, lol.
Answer the question.
God bless.
I am sure you noted I stated no one under the new covenant could be saved unless they were born again! Allowing for anyone to be pedantic concerning the time between when Jesus died and rose again and pentecost
So I don't see how your points at relevant!
God bless
To be specific. You said I stated no one could be in a saved state unless they were born again, you omitted to say I stated Tha concerning those under the new covenant