Loss of salvation???

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They promote having put their confidence in the flesh instead of Christ.
It's sad.

It is quite baffling how they do not see all the verses speaking against doing so.

I affirm that it is Christ who set me free, not some decision I made to believe something I was inherently opposed to.

When you harmonize the Scriptures, the free will declarations taken as a whole or individually are preposterous.

But they love their vain self-exalting theology more than the truth.
Anti-Calvanists infect most of the forums of this type.

Awhile ago such a one faked their death so to close that account and come back under a different name.

Their "friend" posted they had died. Too bad they all had the same computer ID.


Jesus taught us,we do not choose him.He chooses us. All the Apostles reiterated that. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 2,where he told us why we cannot choose Christ in our own.

When you're not a Calcvanist,they claim you're lying . A bit unstable.
 
Anti-Calvanists infect most of the forums of this type.

Awhile ago such a one faked their death so to close that account and come back under a different name.

Their "friend" posted they had died. Too bad they all had the same computer ID.


Jesus taught us,we do not choose him.He chooses us. All the Apostles reiterated that. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 2,where he told us why we cannot choose Christ in our own.

When you're not a Calcvanist,they claim you're lying . A bit unstable.
It is simply a very dishonest way of not dealing with what Scripture explicitly articulates: attribute it to Calvin as if it were not inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, being Biblical. On the grounds of such a logical fallacy they dismiss what they refuse to deal with honestly.
 
It is simply a very dishonest way of not dealing with what Scripture explicitly articulates: attribute it to Calvin as if it were not inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, being Biblical. On the grounds of such a logical fallacy they dismiss what they refuse to deal with honestly.
And everything they condemn under the grounds it's Calvinism, is actually their condemnation of the Holy Spirit that communicated it to man.
 
answered in the other thread, Jordon.
.
oops sorry my Aspasia has been extremely bad today, I've had to re-read my posts several times before posting them. And even then I've still missed words out and got words back to front and included.words from a next sentence in the sentence I was writing.

I think I need a good jolt lol
 
Sorry, but what does, "I think we are none here" mean? I thought it might be a typo for "done", but n and d are not close to each other, at least on the usual QWERTY keyboard.
You are quite correct. I meant "done". I suspect the rhythming caused the error.

Thanks for the correction.
 
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Tulip is a doctrine that should be used to assist God in helping people accept his will.

Tulip is not a doctrine that should be used to hate people with.

I'm thankful to our church fathers for putting togeather such a great doctrine like tulip, because I believe many have been led by this wonderful doctrine to help people understand.

I'm sorry I can't help you or assist you in using the tulip doctrine to hate people with, that was not it's purpose.

God needs help getting people to accept Him? Tulip doesn't teach that. Let's apply your statement to this that I will first quote as it is in the Bible, then alter it to what you seem to be saying:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The TULIP corruption would have had Paul saying this had that warped system of doctrine been at all in Paul's understanding:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, You shall only be able to reach out unto the Lord, but unless He hath predestined you and your house to salvation to be saved, and thy house, you are doomed unto the flames of Hell.

As we can see in the REAL test, Paul didn't have to threaten the man with what may or may not have been in the will of God. It was entirely up to the jailer to make the choice, and that freedom to choose is what is written in the word of God to all men:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

I personally have heard corrupt teachers of TULIP inject into that and other texts what isn't in any of them; to try and make the scriptures say what they are not saying to try and back the extreme meaning of the words the acronym denotes.

MM
 
Anti-Calvanist bigotry is proof the bigots know nothing of the doctrine of grace.

Bigotry? Perhaps you should get a dictionary and look up the definition of that word and afterward choose your words more wisely.

MM
 
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Anti-Calvanists infect most of the forums of this type.

Awhile ago such a one faked their death so to close that account and come back under a different name.

Their "friend" posted they had died. Too bad they all had the same computer ID.


Jesus taught us,we do not choose him.He chooses us. All the Apostles reiterated that. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 2,where he told us why we cannot choose Christ in our own.

When you're not a Calcvanist,they claim you're lying . A bit unstable.

Personally, I can't speak for others here who oppose what I have identified as the more extreme of Calvinism, but as for myself, I do indeed reject the resulting outflow of that extreme that makes God out to be a moral tyrant.

MM
 
Personally, I can't speak for others here who oppose what I have identified as the more extreme of Calvinism, but as for myself, I do indeed reject the resulting outflow of that extreme that makes God out to be a moral tyrant.

MM
Then you reject what Jesus taught. The natural mind ,fallen carnal natural born sinners, cannot understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws,leads,them.

Jesus said of those unto whom he preached yet they didn't understand his parables,that was because it was not given them to understand. (By the Father) So that they would not come to repentance and believe.
Yet, the Disciples were given to understanding.

As to moral Tyranny,I knew a NT Christian who believed such a thing. They rejected the OT because it described a violent God. Immoral, i.e vicious, God.
 
Bigotry? Perhaps you should get a dictionary and look up the definition of that word and afterward choose your words more wisely.

MM
Perhaps you should put your self righteous high horse in its paddock.

And then,rather than advise someone choose their words more wisely, grab a dictionary so to understand the definition of the word,bigot.

bigotry/bĭg′ə-trē/

noun
  1. The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.
  2. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.
  3. The practice or tenets of a bigot.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik


God predestined all according to his will and plan.
That's not Calvin. That was God whom Calvin cited in his teachings.
 
@Musicmaster and @Doll lets just calm down and remember that we as Christians regardless if we agree on things are to love one another as Christ loves us and that the scriptures say to edify and build each other up not tear down mock name call or any of that sort

There is also the fact that hundreds if not thousands of people including new believers see our posts every single one and we are to set an example of one another and how we ought to treat each other
 
@Musicmaster and @Doll lets just calm down and remember that we as Christians regardless if we agree on things are to love one another as Christ loves us and that the scriptures say to edify and build each other up not tear down mock name call or any of that sort

There is also the fact that hundreds if not thousands of people including new believers see our posts every single one and we are to set an example of one another and how we ought to treat each other
I apologize for nothing.

Righteous outrage is of God. We're not to swallow falsehood just to be judged nice by others looking on.
God is no pacifist.

I know MM from an old forum where he is no longer welcome.
His behavior in this thread is a mere sample of his high horse gallop.
 
I apologize for nothing.

Righteous outrage is of God. We're not to swallow falsehood just to be judged nice by others looking on.
God is no pacifist.

I know MM from an old forum where he is no longer welcome.
His behavior in this thread is a mere sample of his high horse gallop.
That is to bad because righteous anger does not lead to insults or angry name calling and besides that whatever issues we have with each other remember that Jesus taught us to love each other as he loved us he never said anything about righteous outrage

I do understand that anger as I have come across many self righteous people and have fallen into the trap of letting that anger take controll but I was reminded of this verse when it happened Ephesians 4:26-27, which reads, "Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil". The passage advises Christians to not let their anger fester or turn into sinful actions, such as bitter words or the desire for vengeance, but rather to address it quickly and with kindness and compassio
 
That is to bad because righteous anger does not lead to insults or angry name calling and besides that whatever issues we have with each other remember that Jesus taught us to love each other as he loved us he never said anything about righteous outrage

I do understand that anger as I have come across many self righteous people and have fallen into the trap of letting that anger take controll but I was reminded of this verse when it happened Ephesians 4:26-27, which reads, "Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil". The passage advises Christians to not let their anger fester or turn into sinful actions, such as bitter words or the desire for vengeance, but rather to address it quickly and with kindness and compassio
Ah,then you have no case with me.

I didn't call anyone a name. Nor did I insult them.

I would suggest discernment when reading scripture .


Scripture must be consistent with the overall narrative and identity of characters involved.

Jesus went off on the Pharisees. In his day the things he said,and the names he called them would have resulted in the speaker,were they anyone else,being silenced by force. And what came after would be at their discretion.

God killed those who opposed him and his will and teachings. He didn't love his enemies. He didn't turn the other cheek. He didn't give to those who stole from him even a greater material reward.

In fact, thieves,unrepentant,are sent to Hell. Violent offenders too.
All by God at their judgement.

Thinking we have to be sweet placated doormats for evil people isn't consistent,in harmony,with the image and likeness of God who was The Word made flesh as Jesus.

We are also not to accommodate,enable,nor approve false teachers.

And we sure aren't to give the adversary a hug and a kiss when he brings his evil to our door.
 
Then you reject what Jesus taught. The natural mind ,fallen carnal natural born sinners, cannot understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned.

Actually, no I do not reject what Jesus taught. The difference is that what Jesus taught Israel was FOR Israel. Many of you Charismatics and Evangelicals completely miss the fact that Gentiles HAD to become Jews to become partakers of the blessings and promises of Abraham, and for salvation. You people keep missing the forest for the trees. I know you may likely not READ these verses carefully so that you are convinced of your error in your own mind and go to your Bible to read them in context, but here they are anyway for those out there who ARE wanting to know the TRUTH as it is expressed in scripture:

Ephesians 2:11-14
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

How does one get past the wall? He goes over it to join with those on the other side.

Esther 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws,leads,them.

Context, context, context. That was written in relation to those who would become the apostles, because that same Lord inspired it to be written that:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

He draws ALL men to Him, but not all respond of their own free will!

You people are so Hell bent upon your false teachings that you, as I said before, miss the forest for the trees!

Jesus said of those unto whom he preached yet they didn't understand his parables,that was because it was not given them to understand. (By the Father) So that they would not come to repentance and believe.
Yet, the Disciples were given to understanding.

There is THIS within scripture, proven in my own life that resulted in my turning away from Judaism:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

As to moral Tyranny,I knew a NT Christian who believed such a thing. They rejected the OT because it described a violent God. Immoral, i.e vicious, God.

As an Israeli, I do not at all reject what you call the OT. What's of special interest is where that same Jesus also instructed:

Luke 5:13-14
13 And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.
14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

All you hypocrites who claim to follow the biblical Jesus, you pick and choose what's relevant and what's not on the basis of convenience, and then harangue others with your foolish notions those who rightly divide the word of truth as commanded by Paul of Tarsus. Your pride in some contrived god who is so fickle and tyrannically immoral as to punish those whom he himself chooses who will be given the ability to turn to him for salvation and who will not, it's no wonder your so confused as to who the REAL God is. Building your falsehoods on the basis of "sovereignty," as if that excuses anyone from the charge of injustice so long as they have that level of power. The God of the Bible is merciful and good in every way, and even His Sovereignty has limits that you fail to recognize:

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

You people, on the other hand, lie without end when vomiting your filth of false doctrines when you push Calvin's teachings to such an extreme.

MM
 
Actually, no I do not reject what Jesus taught. The difference is that what Jesus taught Israel was FOR Israel. Many of you Charismatics and Evangelicals completely miss the fact that Gentiles HAD to become Jews to become partakers of the blessings and promises of Abraham, and for salvation. You people keep missing the forest for the trees. I know you may likely not READ these verses carefully so that you are convinced of your error in your own mind and go to your Bible to read them in context, but here they are anyway for those out there who ARE wanting to know the TRUTH as it is expressed in scripture:

Ephesians 2:11-14
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

How does one get past the wall? He goes over it to join with those on the other side.

Esther 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.



Context, context, context. That was written in relation to those who would become the apostles, because that same Lord inspired it to be written that:

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

He draws ALL men to Him, but not all respond of their own free will!

You people are so Hell bent upon your false teachings that you, as I said before, miss the forest for the trees!



There is THIS within scripture, proven in my own life that resulted in my turning away from Judaism:

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.



As an Israeli, I do not at all reject what you call the OT. What's of special interest is where that same Jesus also instructed:

Luke 5:13-14
13 And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him.
14 And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

All you hypocrites who claim to follow the biblical Jesus, you pick and choose what's relevant and what's not on the basis of convenience, and then harangue others with your foolish notions those who rightly divide the word of truth as commanded by Paul of Tarsus. Your pride in some contrived god who is so fickle and tyrannically immoral as to punish those whom he himself chooses who will be given the ability to turn to him for salvation and who will not, it's no wonder your so confused as to who the REAL God is. Building your falsehoods on the basis of "sovereignty," as if that excuses anyone from the charge of injustice so long as they have that level of power. The God of the Bible is merciful and good in every way, and even His Sovereignty has limits that you fail to recognize:

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

You people, on the other hand, lie without end when vomiting your filth of false doctrines when you push Calvin's teachings to such an extreme.

MM
You're a Judaizer then.
What a tragedy. That was warned against in scripture.

And no,readers,this above in quotes is not Messianic Judaism.

That explains why you're incapable of understanding the Gospel.

We are all one in Christ. There is no Jew,Gentile,male,female. None of the separation barriers that existed prior once Christ/God accomplished his mission to Earth.

We're done
 
You're a Judaizer then.
What a tragedy. That was warned against in scripture.

Your trollish tendencies are evident here because I have never called anyone back to Torah living. The early Church, however, was zealous for the Law. The early Church was FIRST populated by Jews only. Gentiles came into it later.

And no,readers,this above in quotes is not Messianic Judaism.

Nobody here is promoting Messianic Judaism. I used to be of that stripe, but no longer.

That explains why you're incapable of understanding the Gospel.

Trolls such as yourself fail to understand that there is NOW only one gospel by which we are saved, and that is grace through faith, not water baptism or any other works.

We are all one in Christ. There is no Jew,Gentile,male,female. None of the separation barriers that existed prior once Christ/God accomplished his mission to Earth.

We're done

That's ok. Run. That's what trolls do when they can't discuss through reason their position.

MM
 
God needs help getting people to accept Him? Tulip doesn't teach that. Let's apply your statement to this that I will first quote as it is in the Bible, then alter it to what you seem to be saying:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The TULIP corruption would have had Paul saying this had that warped system of doctrine been at all in Paul's understanding:

Acts 16:30-31
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, You shall only be able to reach out unto the Lord, but unless He hath predestined you and your house to salvation to be saved, and thy house, you are doomed unto the flames of Hell.

As we can see in the REAL test, Paul didn't have to threaten the man with what may or may not have been in the will of God. It was entirely up to the jailer to make the choice, and that freedom to choose is what is written in the word of God to all men:

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

I personally have heard corrupt teachers of TULIP inject into that and other texts what isn't in any of them; to try and make the scriptures say what they are not saying to try and back the extreme meaning of the words the acronym denotes.

MM
well I could have replied to this sooner I guess, but your like a bear with saw head.

What you need sir is good lesson in manners in not to be such a religious racist.

Because that's what your acting like, as your condemning all people who like the tulip doctrine because of a few people who may have miss used it.

And is there any point in me talking to you what I like about it when you just hate it.